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Chinese philosophy!

juvenissun

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Tian /heaven can be used in an impersonal manner but it can also be personalized as a god and worshiped with sacrafices and such.

Yes. But if so, that "god" has no name, no image, and no doctrine. So, there is no worship either. The only one who can offer sacrifice to Tian is his son, the emperor.
 
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Dave Ellis

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No. Confucius said: You should not look at anything which is not appropriate.

So, if you see me naked in a glass house, it is your fault.



Apparently you're not versed in the whole "Confucius Say" joke thing... I recommend you google it.
 
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Resha Caner

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I would like to learn how does that issue illustrate the non-factor of geography in shaping the regional culture.

I didn't say that well, which is emblematic of my experience with Chinese history. Drazi's Razor (per Eudaimonist) seems fitting.

My point in the paper was that if geography is the key, it seems to be pointing to contradictory conclusions. As such, it couldn't all just be about geography. Further, while I agree with your comment to Eudaimonist that geography is more than just the lay of the land, one must also be careful not to use the term too broadly, or it becomes useless.

So, with respect to tea, I focused on 2 basic things. First, there are regions of China where tea grows well, and there are regions where it doesn't grow well. Even so, in the regions where it doesn't grow well, tea culture is pervasive. In fact, in those regions - some of them difficult to access - they pay a great price to ship tea in. So, in those places, it is not because of geography that tea prevails. Rather, it seems to be despite geography that it prevails. It is more the binding power of the tea culture and the political advantages that motivated the central government to use it for control.

Second, I found some small minorities in geographically unique areas that had developed a tea culture that is different than the main Chinese tea culture. Here it seems geography did play a role, but not to unify China - rather to distinguish various cultures. And what was the reaction of the Han (the majority culture)? They were pretty successful in stamping out the minority culture (though in a very interesting way (1)). Their success came from their overwhelming numbers (my army is bigger than your army), not really because of what I consider to be geography.

Again, yes geography played a role, but I think it's a reach to give it too much credit for those 2 reasons, which I would summarize as:
1) In some cases Chinese philosophy was spread by cultural insistence in spite of geographic difficulties.
2) In some cases Chinese philosophy simply came along for the ride as part of Han military might, which was used to stamp out the small pockets where geography did play a strong role in cultural development.

Footnote 1: One interesting tactic of the Han was to "celebrate" the minority cultures in China. A special day was set aside when minorities were allowed to wear their native dress, perform their native customs, etc. The interesting side effect of that is that these minorities are then implicitly relegated to a caricature of themselves. They get one day a year when all of China entertains themselves with these provincial customs, and then goes back to the "proper Chinese" way of doing things the rest of the year - they put minority culture back in the drawer and ignore it - much like the west has done with Christmas, Easter, All Saint's Day (Halloween), etc.
 
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juvenissun

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I didn't say that well, which is emblematic of my experience with Chinese history. Drazi's Razor (per Eudaimonist) seems fitting.

My point in the paper was that if geography is the key, it seems to be pointing to contradictory conclusions. As such, it couldn't all just be about geography. Further, while I agree with your comment to Eudaimonist that geography is more than just the lay of the land, one must also be careful not to use the term too broadly, or it becomes useless.

So, with respect to tea, I focused on 2 basic things. First, there are regions of China where tea grows well, and there are regions where it doesn't grow well. Even so, in the regions where it doesn't grow well, tea culture is pervasive. In fact, in those regions - some of them difficult to access - they pay a great price to ship tea in. So, in those places, it is not because of geography that tea prevails. Rather, it seems to be despite geography that it prevails. It is more the binding power of the tea culture and the political advantages that motivated the central government to use it for control.

Second, I found some small minorities in geographically unique areas that had developed a tea culture that is different than the main Chinese tea culture. Here it seems geography did play a role, but not to unify China - rather to distinguish various cultures. And what was the reaction of the Han (the majority culture)? They were pretty successful in stamping out the minority culture (though in a very interesting way (1)). Their success came from their overwhelming numbers (my army is bigger than your army), not really because of what I consider to be geography.

Again, yes geography played a role, but I think it's a reach to give it too much credit for those 2 reasons, which I would summarize as:
1) In some cases Chinese philosophy was spread by cultural insistence in spite of geographic difficulties.
2) In some cases Chinese philosophy simply came along for the ride as part of Han military might, which was used to stamp out the small pockets where geography did play a strong role in cultural development.

Footnote 1: One interesting tactic of the Han was to "celebrate" the minority cultures in China. A special day was set aside when minorities were allowed to wear their native dress, perform their native customs, etc. The interesting side effect of that is that these minorities are then implicitly relegated to a caricature of themselves. They get one day a year when all of China entertains themselves with these provincial customs, and then goes back to the "proper Chinese" way of doing things the rest of the year - they put minority culture back in the drawer and ignore it - much like the west has done with Christmas, Easter, All Saint's Day (Halloween), etc.

Thanks for the explanation. I love tea. I can talk to you on the tea culture for a good while.

However, while what you said make sense, it only addressed the spread of culture, but not the origin of culture. The question should be considered here, in terms of tea, is why is the tea culture of China different from all other tea cultures in the world?

What I am thinking is that the essence of Chinese culture might have been set in stone even before the stone age. So are other major cultures. The rest of the stories are nothing but development and modification.

As for the Japanese culture (remark made to the OP), in the eyes of Chinese, it is derived from Chinese culture, and is modified by ...(what?) Sorry to say this, but it is the most common view among Chinese: ... modified by the narrow world view of islanders.
 
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To tell you the truth, I am Chinese.

I am afraid of being punished by our government. If they find me using this forum to express my feelings. They will absolutely put me into prison or even kill me. I never use Chinese language to share my ideas and thats why I could live longer than others.

I am 23 years old now and I hope I could lead a happy life without any threat by our government.
 
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Resha Caner

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Anyone interested in a comparison between modern western philosophy and the Daoist philosophy of China might like the book "The Tao of the West" by J.J. Clarke. I just finished that one not too long ago and found it a really good read.

I find it interesting that the west concentrates on Daoism when my understanding is that Confucianism is what actually dominates China (or did at one time), and Daoism has always been a minority.
 
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Resha Caner

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I am afraid of being punished by our government. If they find me using this forum to express my feelings. They will absolutely put me into prison or even kill me. I never use Chinese language to share my ideas and thats why I could live longer than others.

That's sad. It sounds like China needs a strong dose of the Spirit.
 
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Eudaimonist

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I hope I could lead a happy life without any threat by our government.

I hope so too. I wish you the good fortune to avoid any problems with your government.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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Resha Caner said:
That's sad. It sounds like China needs a strong dose of the Spirit.

I know China needs some one who is brave enough to express their feelings just like the nobel prize winner Liu xiaobo. But I am a college student who is less know to others. If they kill me, I will disappear, just like I never born.Nobody cares me, and my death will not bring any difference to our society.
 
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Resha Caner

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I know Chinese need some one who is brave enough to express their feelings just like the nobel prize winner Liu xiaobo. But I am a college student who is less know to others. If they kill me, I will disappear, just like I never born.Nobody cares me, and my death will not bring any difference to our society.

It would be wrong for me to tell you what to do. But don't think that no one cares about you. God cares about you.
 
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Eudaimonist

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my death will not bring any difference to our society.

It would bring a difference to the way you lived your life. Even if you aren't remembered, this does matter to your existence.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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juvenissun

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I find it interesting that the west concentrates on Daoism when my understanding is that Confucianism is what actually dominates China (or did at one time), and Daoism has always been a minority.

You are right. And I think this is the reason:

Confucianism is a Chinese version of humanism. But Daoism is all different. It started as a naturalism and was developed into a religion with many gods. So, in comparison, why should the western world adopt or even appreciate another humanism with a whole set of different standards.
 
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juvenissun

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I know China needs some one who is brave enough to express their feelings just like the nobel prize winner Liu xiaobo. But I am a college student who is less know to others. If they kill me, I will disappear, just like I never born.Nobody cares me, and my death will not bring any difference to our society.

This is my guess.

If you were in China, then you are already watched. As long as you don't talk too loud on politics, I guess you are safe.

If you were outside of China, then I guess you are safe anyway. There is probably little chance for them to find out who you are.

What I am saying is that there is no need to be so nervous. We are talking about Chinese culture only. Even Chinese communism can not run away from Chinese culture. In fact, it is a good question on how much the Chinese Communist Party contributed to the Chinese culture? They knocked out everything at the beginning and now restored everything back. Do they have any contribution?
 
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Illuminaughty

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I find it interesting that the west concentrates on Daoism when my understanding is that Confucianism is what actually dominates China (or did at one time), and Daoism has always been a minority.

I tend to read more on Daoism probably because I feel a greater personal affinity with it than I do Confucianism.
 
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Resha Caner

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... I think this is the reason ...

Your version sounds nicer. My version is very sarcastic ... people like the exotic and China seems exotic. But "work hard and be honorable"? How boring. That's not exotic. Whereas, "When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be." Ooh. That makes me sound smart, and it doesn't require me to work hard and be honorable.

Sorry. I should probably delete that comment.
 
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