China won, USA lost

[helmut]

The USA tried to make a free trade agreement with the Asian-Pacific region. Then came Trump, and according to his "America first" strategy, his plan ended in the waste-basket. If you compare countries to individuals, that (and the whole "America first" policy) meant the USA got egoistic.

And like individuals, the fellows of an egoist who does not want to cooperate in the group unite against him. So the America-Pacific-Asia agreement was somewhat changed and is now created as an Asia-Pacific free trade agreement, with China replacing the USA.

It will take years, if not decades, for the USA to cope with the backslash for the US economy that will result of this. And the first one who will probably blamed for this will be Biden, who will not get the economic rebound he could have get if the original agreement would have come into existence.

Trump has paved a way for one of the greatest successes of China since he communist conquered the second half of China (thanks to the "air lift" to Berlin which took air force support away from Chiang Kai-shek).

EDIT: typos

 

[Andrewn]

While Trump is promoting baseless conspiration theories in the US: China and 14 Asian nations are signing the world's biggest free-trade agreement.

China, 14 other countries sign deal to form world’s largest trade bloc

World’s Biggest Free-Trade Deal Set to Be Signed This Weekend

Apart from the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations, we lost markets in China, Japan, South Korea, Australia and New Zealand. This is a major problem created by Trump pulling out of the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

Biden will have to do a lot to correct Trump's disasters.

 

[Landon Caeli]

The USA tried to make a free trade agreement with the Asian-Pacific region. Then came Trump, and according to his "America first" strategy, his plan ended in the waste-basket. If you compare countries to individuals, that (and the whole "America first" policy) meant the USA got egoistic.

And like individuals, the fellows of an egoist who does not want to cooperate in the group unite against him. So the America-Pacific-Asia agreement was somewhat changed and is now created as a Asia-Pacific free trade agreement, with China replacing the USA.

It will take years, if not decades, or the USA to cope with the backslash for the US economy that will result of this. And the first one who will probably blamed for this will be Biden, who will not get the economic rebound he could have get if the original agreement would have come into existence.

Trump has paved a way for one of the greatest successes of China since he communist conquered the second half of China (thanks to the "air lift" to Berlin which took air force support away from Chiang Kai-shek).

Sounds a little like fear mongering. The same kind of fear-filled rhetoric non-Americans always dish-up whenever the American people take a stand for themselves.

 

[Landon Caeli]

You guys realize all these countries have tariffs against each other, even through this agreement...

...They'll never get past their own greed, and yet, the Americans are supposed to be jealous and afraid that we're not playing along with their silly one-sided trade games anymore?

I know, quality American companies like KÜHL®
produce a lot of their products in El Salvador, so I don’t know why it matters.

KÜHL | The Art of Performance Clothing and Casual Style

 

[JackRT]

I agree. Trump's trade wars have damaged the US economy. Under international agreements some of those arbitrary tariffs were actually illegal. By doing this he has damaged US credibility on the world stage.

 

[mindlight]

The USA tried to make a free trade agreement with the Asian-Pacific region. Then came Trump, and according to his "America first" strategy, his plan ended in the waste-basket. If you compare countries to individuals, that (and the whole "America first" policy) meant the USA got egoistic.

And like individuals, the fellows of an egoist who does not want to cooperate in the group unite against him. So the America-Pacific-Asia agreement was somewhat changed and is now created as a Asia-Pacific free trade agreement, with China replacing the USA.

It will take years, if not decades, or the USA to cope with the backslash for the US economy that will result of this. And the first one who will probably blamed for this will be Biden, who will not get the economic rebound he could have get if the original agreement would have come into existence.

Trump has paved a way for one of the greatest successes of China since he communist conquered the second half of China (thanks to the "air lift" to Berlin which took air force support away from Chiang Kai-shek).

The timing of the signing is interesting, it allows China to have the largest influence in the trade bloc before America rejoins the real world under Biden. Now the USA will have to work harder for its trade in the region.

 

[hedrick]

Right. I agree with Trump that China is an issue. But tariffs alone aren't going to solve it. The long-term effect of Trump's policies of disengagement with allies is going to be leaving China as the world leader. I hope it's not too late to reverse.

 

[helmut]

...They'll never get past their own greed, and yet, the Americans are supposed to be jealous and afraid that we're not playing along with their silly one-sided trade games anymore?

You overlook that this is a move of 13 countries away from the US and towards China. China will get better access to markets (i.e. it will sell less in the long run), and also some influence that may change the policy of these countries slightly.

It is a victory for China. Until now I said that the economic war between China and USA is a tossup, now I say China has won and USA lost. That's bad news for all democratic countries in the world.

 

[mindlight]

You overlook that this is a move of 13 countries away from the US and towards China. China will get better access to markets (i.e. it will sell less in the long run), and also some influence that may change the policy of these countries slightly.

It is a victory for China. Until now I said that the economic war between China and USA is a tossup, now I say China has won and USA lost. That's bad news for all democratic countries in the world.

It is not over yet and the USA has some natural allies in the new trade block that China cannot just assume are in its camp like Australia and Japan for instance. But it is definitely harder now than it would have been had they stayed engaged.

 

[helmut]

It is not over yet

Politics is never over until Jesus comes. I did not say China got a final victory, but they have won a victory.

 

[Landon Caeli]

You overlook that this is a move of 13 countries away from the US and towards China. China will get better access to markets (i.e. it will sell less in the long run), and also some influence that may change the policy of these countries slightly.

It is a victory for China. Until now I said that the economic war between China and USA is a tossup, now I say China has won and USA lost. That's bad news for all democratic countries in the world.

When was the last time you bought a product that said "made in the USA" on the label..?

Thing is, nobody buys our stuff because we don't make anything anymore. There is no trade war... there's only a stranglehold on America.

...We lost a long, long time ago.

 

[Albion]

The USA tried to make a free trade agreement with the Asian-Pacific region.

Oh, it's about the free trade pact.

When I saw the title of the thread it looked like the thread was about the November election!

 

[helmut]

Thing is, nobody buys our stuff because we don't make anything anymore. There is no trade war... there's only a stranglehold on America.

The USA get billions of dollars a year from customers of facebook, google etc. Not the users, the ones who sell ads on that platforms or buy data gathered there.

Instead paying taxes in the countries these ads are aimed at, twitter & Co. pay taxes in the USA. Billions for the US budget, that ought to go to European (and other) countries. And they don't appear in a statistic on trade balances.

This is just one way you make a "stronghold" on us.

 

[Landon Caeli]

The USA get billions of dollars a year from customers of facebook, google etc. Not the users, the ones who sell ads on that platforms or buy data gathered there.

Instead paying taxes in the countries these ads are aimed at, twitter & Co. pay taxes in the USA. Billions for the US budget, that ought to go to European (and other) countries. And they don't appear in a statistic on trade balances.

This is just one way you make a "stronghold" on us.

Speaking for myself, I just want to be self-sufficient, at least. Our country is a very large one, land wise. We have enough natural resources to be able to support ourselves, without relying on others, and still have enough resources leftover to be able to export after we're finished.

...But our Democrats want to copy off the model that tiny European countries rely upon, who don't have the resources to be self-sufficient, and need to be able to import to survive.

Why we're adopting models that are below our capabilities makes no sense, until you realize that it's all just to be part of an ideology... Someone else's ideology.

 

[hedrick]

Speaking for myself, I just want to be self-sufficient, at least. Our country is a very large one, land wise. We have enough natural resources to be able to support ourselves, without relying on others, and still have enough resources leftover to be able to export after we're finished.

...But our Democrats want to copy off the model that tiny European countries rely upon, who don't have the resources to be self-sufficient, and need to be able to import to survive.

Why we're adopting models that are below our capabilities makes no sense, until you realize that it's all just to be part of an ideology... Someone else's ideology.

I'm not sure what this posting means. Moving production to China happened over a long time, and wasn't a decision by either Republicans or Democrats. It was made by the free market. There was a concensus by both parties to lower trade barriers.

The US and EU economies are similar size.

 

[Landon Caeli]

I'm not sure what this posting means. Moving production to China happened over a long time, and wasn't a decision by either Republicans or Democrats. It was made by the free market. There was a concensus by both parties to lower trade barriers.

The US and EU economies are similar size.

I'm a Paleocon, not a neo-con... For me, it's country before free markets.

For both the neo-con and the globalist liberal, its free markets before country.

 

[helmut]

Speaking for myself, I just want to be self-sufficient, at least. Our country is a very large one, land wise. We have enough natural resources to be able to support ourselves, without relying on others, and still have enough resources leftover to be able to export after we're finished.

This is an illusion. The USA have about 5.1% of the world population, and about 2.8% of the dry area, but consume almost 25% of the world's resources. And only part of this is produced in the USA. Even the oxygen you breathe is partly imported from regions where more oxygen is produced than consumed, e.g. the rain forest in the amazon ...

...But our Democrats want to copy off the model that tiny European countries rely upon, who don't have the resources to be self-sufficient, and need to be able to import to survive.

This was no decision of the democrats. If you want a modern electronic device (e.g. a "smart" cell phone), you either have to import it from China or to import so-called rare-earth elements, which mostly are from China. To access the internet, you (singular!) probably have no device without material that was dug out of Chinese soil. And if you want to import from China, you also have to export there ... I know some more examples (with resources from other parts of the world), and an expert could give you a long list of goods your wealth relies on, that have to be imported from abroad.

Why we're adopting models that are below our capabilities makes no sense, until you realize that it's all just to be part of an ideology... Someone else's ideology.

What you write is part of an ideology, an ideology that helps you to think in an egoistic way, at least in a way that the USA should behave like the egoistic rogue they have been in the last 4 years.

 

[helmut]

I'm a Paleocon, not a neo-con...

Not sure what "paleo-con" means in practice. If you want to live as in the 19th century, join the Amish. Even somewhat relaxed you will have to reduce your standard of living if you want not to rely on resources from outside the USA. As a first step, throw away any electronic device produced after 1995 or so ... see above posting #17.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Not sure what "paleo-con" means in practice. If you want to live as in the 19th century, join the Amish. Even somewhat relaxed you will have to reduce your standard of living if you want not to rely on resources from outside the USA. As a first step, throw away any electronic device produced after 1995 or so ... see above posting #17.

If you don't know what something is, then why invent what you think it might be, and then insult what your imagination invented?

 

[Landon Caeli]

This is an illusion. The USA have about 5.1% of the world population, and about 2.8% of the dry area, but consume almost 25% of the world's resources. And only part of this is produced in the USA. Even the oxygen you breathe is partly imported from regions where more oxygen is produced than consumed, e.g. the rain forest in the amazon ...


This was no decision of the democrats. If you want a modern electronic device (e.g. a "smart" cell phone), you either have to import it from China or to import so-called rare-earth elements, which mostly are from China. To access the internet, you (singular!) probably have no device without material that was dug out of Chinese soil. And if you want to import from China, you also have to export there ... I know some more examples (with resources from other parts of the world), and an expert could give you a long list of goods your wealth relies on, that have to be imported from abroad.


What you write is part of an ideology, an ideology that helps you to think in an egoistic way, at least in a way that the USA should behave like the egoistic rogue they have been in the last 4 years.

None of this is related to anything I posted. I don’t know what you're trying to do.