Children and fighting

[Helo]

Ok, a couple weeks ago my nephew got into a fight at school. He's kinda a punk so he got a little of what he needed, but my immedieate family seems a little divided on something.

He fought back (Actually TRIED to fight back, didnt work real well) against the guy who was knocking him around and for that he got in more trouble at school and at home.

Do you think children should be taught to fight back if annother child starts a fight?

Now my rule for my future children is "You'd best not start a fight but if someone starts one with you, you have my full permission to finish it." Sitting there getting the crap kicked out of you is not going to gain you anything and running away is worse still.

Run away and you become a squealer, now your just a bigger target for agression and next time you get in a fight, it will probably be somewhere where no one can help you. In all the fights Ive seen, not once has running away and telling the teacher/supervising adult ever done any long-term good.

Sitting there and taking it is also a pretty dumb idea, that gives the other person the idea that he can kick you around whenever he feels like it and you wont resist. It can also result in some pretty serious injury.

I say, fight back with all you have. Even if you loose, you'll have fought the good fight and people will know that you will fight back if your physically harassed and people looking to start a fight want an easy win, they dont want to have to work for it. And if you win, so much the better.

 

[gwenmead]

I would like to see children taught to use their best judgment whether or not to fight back. (Whatever that might mean.)

Sometimes it's totally appropriate, sometimes it just makes things worse. But fwiw I sure wouldn't teach a kid that fighting back is wrong.

I was taught never to hurt people's feelings and never to fight back. I firmly believe it's one of the reasons I ended up a rape victim as a teen. While there's no guarantee that fighting back will work every time, automatic submission simply leads to a greater chance of victimization - and I tellya, I'm never going to be in that position again.

That's just me.

 

[Moros]

Dunno. Some kids are clever enough to talk their way out of it. Some aren't clever enough to avoid being picked on. I never got into any fights myself, nor did I ever start any. A friend called me and asked what to do about her 7 year old boy, who was being bullied on the skewl bus. Had no idea what to tell her.

 

[Mirelys]

I would like to see children taught to use their best judgment whether or not to fight back. (Whatever that might mean.)

Sometimes it's totally appropriate, sometimes it just makes things worse. But fwiw I sure wouldn't teach a kid that fighting back is wrong.

I was taught never to hurt people's feelings and never to fight back. I firmly believe it's one of the reasons I ended up a rape victim as a teen. While there's no guarantee that fighting back will work every time, automatic submission simply leads to a greater chance of victimization - and I tellya, I'm never going to be in that position again.

That's just me.

Agreed. When children are taught that their feelings (both emotional and physical hurts) are less important than other people's, it can set them up for all kinds of junk. It took me until last year to figure out that it's okay to fight back and that no one will rescue me except me. I still feel guilty about it though.

 

[loriersea]

Do you think children should be taught to fight back if annother child starts a fight?

No. I think they should be taught to walk away from someone who wants to start a fight with them, and avoid situations where that might be the case. If they are for some reason in a situation where they are being threatened with fights or actually hit, then that situation should be handled and diffused.

I don't think that means passively accepting people's cruel behavior. I just think it means realizing that there is no reason to physically fight with someone. That doesn't mean not defending yourself, which may require some physical force, but there is a difference between using the degree of physical force necessary to defend yourself from an attack and actually fighting.

 

[MethodMan]

1. In school, walk away. Report to school officials.

Will it bring more grief, maybe.

2. More physical abuse in school, see rule 1.

3. Outside school? see rule 1 altering the report to the police.

Will that bring more grief, maybe.

4. Still more abuse outside school? See rule three.

5. what happens when you are cornered? Defend yourself.

This is what I instructed my boys to do.

The oldest ended up being the one kid in school that no one would bother. Started in middle school. A group of punks were hassling him constant. He would just walk away.

One punk took his jacket and scribbled profanity all over it (permanent ink on suede). My son reported it to the teacher who sent the kid to the office and guess who was waiting with his buddies outside the school?

My son calls me. I pick him up as these punks threaten him right in front of me. They actually got really upset when I laughed at them. One kid approched my car and I pointed at the security cameras.

Next day, my son goes to school and finds these kids have been expelled and through the rumor mill he learns they will be waiting for him near where he gets off the bus 5 blocks from the house.

He calls me again. I told him to get off at the stop before and come home another way. My instructions were clear.

If the catch up tou you, drop everything and walk up to the biggest one. When he raises his hands to hit you, scream,"please don't hurt me" raising your own hands in a cowering movement. Use self-defense lessons and hit this kid in his groin with one of the three methods taught.

When he was 2 blocks away from home, there they were waiting for him. Five ready to beat him. A small crowd was there. Mostly girls from the neighborhood. As my son tried to walk past, the biggest one grabs him by his jacket on his shoulder. My son spun around, employed his technique and the punk was on his knees puking his brains out. #2 grabs my son aound the neck from behind and found himslef lying in the puddle of puke with my sons foot on his neck. The other three ran off.

Until that day, no one in his school knew he was a 2nd degree blackbelt. Most kids asked two questions.

1. If you could take thes guys before, why didn't you?

He reads them my rules.

2. Don't you consider kicking a guy in the groin fighting dirty?

His reply,"I don't see anything I do against 5 kids as dirty anything when still breathing."


My advice to the OP, if you are going to give your poor advice to your kids, you had better equip them to do so and be ready to pay the fines and penalties that will come from their actions; one that could include juvenal detention.

 

[trunks2k]

If I had kids, I wouldn't be mad at them for fighting back if they were cornered. I would much rather have them just walk away, but if they can't do that, they need to defend themselves.

But with kids, it's a difficult situation. There is no one answer to it. I was always one to just ignore people that were teasing me or harrassing me. Not ignore in the "I'm not listening to you" way but in actually telling them they're being dumb and what they say is not gonna get me angry. Sarcasm was my main weapon. For the most part, it worked fine. I got left alone for the most part. But there were a couple people that would still try to harass me, those were the people I had to stand up to a bit. Which was kinda tough for me, because I'm a very non-violent person.

I had one kid on my track team that would constantly harass me, not in any serious way, but still being a jerk. Finally one time he was doing his normal harassing and trying to fight me. I finally stood up to him and told him "Fine, lets fight. Right here, right now. Sure you're a bit bigger than me, and will probably win, but not before I break your nose. But losing would be worth it." He backed off and never bothered me again. It was a bluff, but it worked in that case.

 

[OutCasteChild]

As long as kids understand that they are not to cause permanent harm then a few fights in school isn't really that big of a deal. Young children aren't mature enough to understand conflict resolution methods and will resort to physical violence because it is easier. This is the reality of child developement, and trying to force children to resolve conflicts using methods they aren't mature enough to understand will only cause problems.

From personal experience, I can tell you that even if there is no physical violence there is still alot of attacks by way of insults, threats, etc. At least when I was in school, and probably still today in many schools, teachers look the other way when children are attacked verbally by their classmates because the teachers don't view it as damaging as physical violence. Unfortunately, many children don't have the ability to respond to verbal attacks in kind and for them school becomes torture as they are attacked verbally with no way of defending temselves. It only further harms them when, after losing control they attack their tormentors, these children are punished while being told that their tormentors were doing nothing wrong to them since their tormentors didn't throw the first punch.

This is not to say that by the time kids reach high school they shouldn't be mature enough to find other solutions. Although, I strongly disagree with the idea that students give up their right to defend themselves just because they are at school.

 

[momalle1]

Any kid that runs away or makes a big deal out of any verbal or physical punishment is only inviting more. Win or loose, the other kids will respect the kid standing up for himself. This is something that will have an effect through all of his school years, amybe his life. Some people will push until they are pushed back.

 

[Timmothy]

I use to bully this one kid i went to school with. There was about 6 of us that picked on this boy every day. One day I got off the bus with him, and it was only me and him, and i pushed this poor kid too far, he beat the the crap out of me so bad. Lol i never really share this story but here you go. I never picked on a kid again. I got what i deserved.

 

[momalle1]

I use to bully this one kid i went to school with. There was about 6 of us that picked on this boy every day. One day I got off the bus with him, and it was only me and him, and i pushed this poor kid too far, he beat the the crap out of me so bad. Lol i never really share this story but here you go. I never picked on a kid again. I got what i deserved.

Hmmm, I remember you...

 

[DailyBlessings]

Bad idea to fight back. It can escalate a conflict and result in serious violence. The kids are more heavily armed now than they used to be, and school violence needs to be stamped out.

 

[justanobserver]

Do you think children should be taught to fight back if annother child starts a fight?

Now my rule for my future children is "You'd best not start a fight but if someone starts one with you, you have my full permission to finish it." Sitting there getting the crap kicked out of you is not going to gain you anything and running away is worse still.

To your question, a resounding YES!

To your rule for future children - you just decribed almost word for word my 3 sons (yeah, I know the old tv show...) were told and taught from me. They are to never start a fight, never be a bully, try to talk it out instead of fighting but when all else fails and theres no other recourse - fight and fight to win.

My oldest son is 26, 6'3, 275 lbs, "corn fed slab of beef" and he doesnt get hassled from anyone (did in school but took care of it - they left hom alone afterwards). he belongs to a boxing club in Northern California and has a working knowledge in in one of the self defence disciplines. But he was taught as a kid that if your hit, smack them back. He also was told to never start one and to my knowledge he never did but he finished up a few.

My younger sons 13 and 15 from a different marriage are amerasians, slight in stature, skinny but wiry and for a while a target for other kids to pick on (a lot of it due to their caucasion/asian features). well, they got tired of getting picked on, their mother ask me to teach them basic self defence moves (mainly blocks and hand holds and I did try to keep it as passive as possible) and it helped but didnt stop the bullying.

Both were getting the snot knocked out of them almost every other day. The principal didnt do squat. The ex calls me, I drive down from my base (army), I showed them some things I knew from my past and from the military and well, a couple weeks later a kid on the bus that had been one of the semi daily bullies to my sons took my oldest sons' belt (in a bag of extra clothes) hit him with it. Turns out that darling angel was related to the busdriver.... anyhooos, Cody cleaned that kid's clock, got his belt back and got suspended for defending himself and made me proud to be called his dad.

Turned out this kid had been harrassing my son calling him the "g" word (referring to asians) and getting physical and Cody took it. When this kid and his friends went after Casey, the younger brother, he still held back. Then the bus incident happened, Cody got tired of it and it got settled.

I went to the school a few days later, had a "chat" with the principal, after a half hour of expressing in my loving way my view of his skills as a leader of students he listened, he saw the error of his ways, my son was re-instated, the driver suspended, later fired and the kid was kicked out of school (he attacked others apparently) and his family packed up and moved. sorry bout that I sais.


Do my sons get picked on anymore? nope. they are basketball champs in their school. got a wall full of trophies and ribbons. Do I regret any of what I taught them? nope. they also was taught only as a last option and they will tell you that today if you asked. I am proud of my sons; not for fighting but for knowing when and how to stand up for themselves and they dont hold a grudge that much either. I could take a lesson from them.

sorry for the length of this but wanted to tell the story.

 

[Helo]

Bad idea to fight back. It can escalate a conflict and result in serious violence. The kids are more heavily armed now than they used to be, and school violence needs to be stamped out.

What would you tell your child to do in that situation?

And school violence will NEVER be stamped out, its like teen sex, its here, its been here, ittl always BE here, so we might as well get used to it.

 

[DailyBlessings]

What would you tell your child to do in that situation?

And school violence will NEVER be stamped out, its like teen sex, its here, its been here, ittl always BE here, so we might as well get used to it.

Call for help. The best response is to demand one of the authorities whose job it is to keep our children safe.

And no, I don't think violence is that kind of an institution- deadly incidents in schools are a fairly new phenomenon in the scope of history.

 

[Helo]

Call for help and the kid will get branded a squealer and the next time he gets in a fight, the guys who started the first fight will ensure that theres no one around to help them.

And what incidents of deadly violence would you be referring to?

 

[Mirelys]

Call for help.

Call for help and hope they don't tell you you're overreacting...or lying...or "He's just troubled. You're a sweet girl, you understand, right?"
Obviously I don't miss school

 

[Timmothy]

Hmmm, I remember you...

After that he joined the football team and was kind of good, he was real fast. So i helped him come out of his shell lol thats awefull isnt it. He becam every bodys friend after wards.

 

[DailyBlessings]

Call for help and hope they don't tell you you're overreacting...or lying...or "He's just troubled. You're a sweet girl, you understand, right?"

Oh, don't I realize it. But I don't just mean the child, calling for help. Parents and administrators need to take an active role in the bullying situation. Terrorism is not permitted in international relations. Nor should it be allowed on our playgrounds.

 

[DailyBlessings]

Call for help and the kid will get branded a squealer and the next time he gets in a fight, the guys who started the first fight will ensure that theres no one around to help them.

And what incidents of deadly violence would you be referring to?

There have been dozens of incidents now where violence between students has led to extreme actions on the part of the victim- school shootings in America, mass knifings in Asia. All of them are tied to the casual acceptance of violence and the "hands off" attitude administrators take towards bullying and playground conflicts.