childless venues in restaurants

[Michie]

I agree they are limiting their clientele and I think that's the point. They only want a certain kind of customer.

When I worked, we had a this Catholic family whose 4 kids were insufferable. Not mean or ugly but just not controlled and you could tell the parents did not expect them to not run around and make a mess.

The mom and dad were middle aged and just could not control the children and they acted like we were suppose to put up with them running around and messing up the place becuase they are kids and that's what kids do and the mom was so out of it- she was a dingbat, no offense.

I told one of her kids to stop it, sit down, put our broom up and stop throwing the magazines all around, this was the moms way of keeping them occupied, and when I told her, ah, no its not, she, in her polite la-la land way asked another worker if I was the wicked witch...

I saw her and her husband who was a local business owner himself, owned a burger joint, I saw them at a special Mass at my parish and there went the kids, running up and down the isles and at one point after the Mass was over and people were outside, the dad asked the mom where one of the kids were, apparently they had lost one of them.

But the moral of the story is, I get some business owners don't want that in certain establishments.

When I go to certain places, I don't want kids bothering me, that's why I go there and I leave my kids home.

But on the other hand... its not cool to not want certain races in your place, you would be picketed, and sued for discrimination and run out of town with bats and sticks but its okay to ban kids... so that's a double standard that speaks to kids just not being valued in this society. They are seen as second class by just about everyone.

Pretty much how I see it.

7-11's don't allow kids under a certain age in the store alone. Art & Antique shops have requirements concerning the kids. The list goes on & on.

 

[ebia]

Ultimately we vote with our money. So those of us who do not like it we say so and don't go there. And we don't go out to eat with people who do go there.

It won't make a difference because most people are in favor of it and places that do it see an uptake in business. But eventually someone will challenge it and that will be interesting.

But, as you say, it's just a symptom of a much bigger cultural problem.

 

[benedictaoo]

Can it exclude disabled people or black people?

Being a private business doesn't mean doing what it wants. As a society we allow it some freedoms and restrict others.

I agree with both points and that's the problem. If I'm going out to a, what I would consider an adult restaurant, I don't want kids bothering me and its not a place I would choose to bring my kids.

If we were going out with the kids, we would pick a place that was appropriate.

I'm talking restaurants and other adult places that kids would just be bored crazy to go there and that's why they would act up. They would not want to be there anymore than the rest of the place wants them there.

The grocery store though... that's just weird, you can't ban a kid from a grocery store.

I think a better solution would be to have a policy that says if your kid is bothersome, they can ask you to leave.

My children always behaved and still does in any restaurant, even my autistic son knows how to act in a restaurant... but I still would not choose to bring them in such places as described becuase they aren't for kids after all.

 

[benedictaoo]

Pretty much how I see it.

7-11's don't allow kids under a certain age in the store alone. Art & Antique shops have requirements concerning the kids. The list goes on & on.

Because they steal and break stuff.

 

[MikeK]

Statistically speaking, blacks in the US are more likely than whites to commit violent crimes. I suspects also that statistically speaking, children are more likely to be loud and unruly than adults. In both cases the "oh, I'm not saying all black people/ children are violent/noisy, but I prefer to enjoy my dinner without being shot/listening to loud children." I'm against both sorts of policy, and I don't fully understand how someone could favor one but not the other.

 

[Michie]

Because they steal and break stuff.

Ageist.

 

[MikeK]

Because they steal and break stuff.

Also, in the case of art galleries, I suspect part of the reason that children might not be allowed is that they're more honest than the typical art enthusiast. A child might well say "I've thrown stuff up that looked better than this, and they're asking $1500 for it?" Pretentious art-snobs don't like to be reminded that they're being taken for a ride.

 

[benedictaoo]

Also, in the case of art galleries, I suspect part of the reason that children might not be allowed is that they're more honest than the typical art enthusiast. A child might well say "I've thrown stuff up that looked better than this, and they're asking $1500 for it?" Pretentious art-snobs don't like to be reminded that they're being taken for a ride.

lol.

Pretentious is it. We are talking about Pretentious ppl and places. The Pretentious person doesn't want their own kids there let alone yours.

This banning situation will cause no problem for these types of businesses and if anyone says, well they won't get my money, the truth is, they never were going to get your money anyway.

 

[benedictaoo]

Statistically speaking, blacks in the US are more likely than whites to commit violent crimes. I suspects also that statistically speaking, children are more likely to be loud and unruly than adults. In both cases the "oh, I'm not saying all black people/ children are violent/noisy, but I prefer to enjoy my dinner without being shot/listening to loud children." I'm against both sorts of policy, and I don't fully understand how someone could favor one but not the other.

Its so not the same...

 

[ebia]

Also, in the case of art galleries, I suspect part of the reason that children might not be allowed is that they're more honest than the typical art enthusiast. A child might well say "I've thrown stuff up that looked better than this, and they're asking $1500 for it?" Pretentious art-snobs don't like to be reminded that they're being taken for a ride.

LOL

 

[AMDG]

Discrimination is not allowed, but sometimes I think it *should* be. For instance, many years ago husband and I took our three young children out to a supposedly "Family Friendly" restaurant. Unfortunately, the young guys at the next table were loudly using the foulest language that quiet eating was simply impossible. We complained but the restaurant could do nothing. (I guess they had to allow all sorts of speech or be guilty of discrimination.) Oh well, their loss. We never went back and I doubt the restaurant could remain "family friendly" with exposing children to that sort of language.

We have a tendency to "vote with our feet" and if the restaurant can't (or doesn't) accomodate, they lose customers. The other year, we were taking our children and grandkids out for a celebration at still another restaurant. Loud foul language again could be heard there. (It was so bad that the waitress was clearly embarassed and tried to get them to "hold it down" to no avail.) Never went back. The restaurant lost ten paying customers that day.

 

[Ave Maria]

I think this is wrong. We should value and cherish our children and I believe that these actions are doing the opposite of that.

 

[JenniferB]

I absolutely support restaurants who do this and would probably frequent those places more. My husband and I like to go out and have a nice mea and good conversation- not be around a bunch of crazy children whose parents can't/won't discipline them.

As far as the business for the restaurants, from what I read, business is flourishing. They are only catering to the emptynesters and childless couples who tend to have more disposable income to spend in places like that. For them, it's not personal, but all about business.

 

[Michie]

I absolutely support restaurants who do this and would probably frequent those places more. My husband and I like to go out and have a nice mea and good conversation- not be around a bunch of crazy children whose parents can't/won't discipline them.

As far as the business for the restaurants, from what I read, business is flourishing. They are only catering to the emptynesters and childless couples who tend to have more disposable income to spend in places like that. For them, it's not personal, but all about business.

Business is business.

 

[Michie]

Also, in the case of art galleries, I suspect part of the reason that children might not be allowed is that they're more honest than the typical art enthusiast. A child might well say "I've thrown stuff up that looked better than this, and they're asking $1500 for it?" Pretentious art-snobs don't like to be reminded that they're being taken for a ride.

LOL!

Yeah & the fact that most kids prefer macaroni & cheese before their tastebuds develop into appreciating much more sophisticated fare.

But I see your point about what some consider art.

Kids will give their opinion on everything even when they are not old enough to understand what they are giving an opinion on.

 

[MikeK]

Kids will give their opinion on everything even when they are not old enough to understand what they are giving an opinion on.

Yep - but that's forgivable, given their lack of maturity. We've all been there. What inexcusable to me is adults gathering around something like Warhol's Campbell's Soup can and pretending that it's a statement of any sort. It's a painting of a can of soup, nothing more, and any fool who pays over $15 for it is an easy mark. I understand that these types of people have some sort of issue that drives them to have to feel like they're on the inside, like they see something others don't, like they're special, but it still boggles my mind. They have my pity.

 

[Michie]

Yep - but that's forgivable, given their lack of maturity. We've all been there. What inexcusable to me is adults gathering around something like Warhol's Campbell's Soup can and pretending that it's a statement of any sort. It's a painting of a can of soup, nothing more, and any fool who pays over $15 for it is an easy mark. I understand that these types of people have some sort of issue that drives them to have to feel like they're on the inside, like they see something others don't, like they're special, but it still boggles my mind. They have my pity.

Andy Warhol was a very messed up human being. To some, that make his stuff worth more.

Is it art?

No. Not as far as I'm concerned.

It's ripping off pop/advertising culture.

But to each his own in the art world.

 

[MikeK]

Andy Warhol was a very messed up human being. To some, that make his stuff worth more.

Is it art?

No. Not as far as I'm concerned.

It's ripping off pop/advertising culture.

But to each his own in the art world.

Makes no sense to me. Hitler was more messed up perhaps as good a painter, his work seldom graces the cover of coffee table books though.

I don't appreciate paintings, except those done by a struggling artist pal of mine. He does lots of drugs and paints poorly, but I'll hang his work because I like him. Also, he's a little nutty, and there's always the possibility that he'll one day get famous for doing something very genious or very stupid, and then I have a goldmine on my hands.

 

[Michie]

Makes no sense to me. Hitler was more messed up perhaps as good a painter, his work seldom graces the cover of coffee table books though.

I don't appreciate paintings, except those done by a struggling artist pal of mine. He does lots of drugs and paints poorly, but I'll hang his work because I like him. Also, he's a little nutty, and there's always the possibility that he'll one day get famous for doing something very genious or very stupid, and then I have a goldmine on my hands.

Hitler is politically incorrect in most of the very liberal art circles & cliques.

But there are many collectors of Nazi paraphernalia & art on the market. It's just not as well known. And most collectors unless you are a proud & out skin head do it under the table.

Art is what speaks to a person basically.

There are many genres of art just as in business. You choose what suits you.

As far as your friend... nothing new. Being nutty or messed up does not guarantee worth of the art. It's falling in with the right crowd basically.

Prison is full of brilliant & talented art. Most won't be known. A lot rival the art in galleries.

Then you got collectors of John Gacy's horrible clown paintings.

It's all in the noteriety.

Some collect only work done by serial killers.

Again, like in business, it's all in your preference & where you choose to spend your money.

But nobody is being forced to do so.

 

[MikeK]

As far as your friend... nothing new. Being nutty or messed up does not guarantee worth of the art. It's falling in with the right crowd basically.

I mentioned he's a friend of mine. You better believe he's in the right crowd, baby.

/Do you mind if I call you baby?