Checkmate, Atheists

[AV1611VET]

Who is the only Person that can exist without being created?

 

[Davian]

An imaginary one?

 

[jacks]

The Capitalization is a clue isn't it?

 

[AV1611VET]

The Capitalization is a clue isn't it?

Yes, sir!

Good catch!

 

[PsychoSarah]

Who is the only Person that can exist without being created?

I know who you are going for, but I do not recall the bible excluding god from being created. Also, depends on how you define "created".

 

[Oncedeceived]

I know who you are going for, but I do not recall the bible excluding god from being created. Also, depends on how you define "created".

the Bible claims that God has always existed. How if He has always existed was He created?

 

[PsychoSarah]

the Bible claims that God has always existed. How if He has always existed was He created?

With the universe came time. Before time there is no measure of always or never. If something precedes the existence of the universe, its own existence would be undefined in regards to time, both always and never.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Who is the only Person that can exist without being created?

Mithras? Aten?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[driewerf]

Who is the only Person that can exist without being created?

Nobody has been created, we were all conceived.

 

[AV1611VET]

Also, depends on how you define "created".

Ex materia.

 

[AV1611VET]

Nobody has been created, we were all conceived.

Any exceptions?

 

[VirOptimus]

Any exceptions?

Created presupposes a creator, if a creator exists its beyond science as that is a supernatural entity.

As for now there are no scientfic reasons to conclude there are a creator and science is therefore silent on the issue.

If you want to belive in a creator that is up to you but its a belief, not science, and shouldnt be mixed with science. It isnt incompatible with science though.

 

[AV1611VET]

Created presupposes a creator, if a creator exists its beyond science as that is a supernatural entity.

As for now there are no scientfic reasons to conclude there are a creator and science is therefore silent on the issue.

If you want to belive in a creator that is up to you but its a belief, not science, and shouldnt be mixed with science. It isnt incompatible with science though.

Wouldn't a fourth dimension of space* be beyond science as well?

* Mentioned by Paul.

 

[grasping the after wind]

With the universe came time. Before time there is no measure of always or never. If something precedes the existence of the universe, its own existence would be undefined in regards to time, both always and never.

I do not believe that always and never are necessarily time bound concepts. If they are connected to material substance they become time bound but since they can encompass every situation that exists not simply situations tied to physical reality I think that one or the other could describe a situation outside the limits of time. In the case we are discussing , if there is no god then never applies, if there is God then always applies. There may be no change or movement and therefore no time but still there is God or there is no god either always or never.

 

[VirOptimus]

Wouldn't a fourth dimension of space* be beyond science as well?

* Mentioned by Paul.

Not necessarily, but although I have no idea what Paul have written Im fairly certain its not science.

 

[AV1611VET]

Not necessarily, but although I have no idea what Paul have written Im fairly certain its not science.

Ephesians 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

 

[VirOptimus]

Ephesians 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

?

I really cant see where you are going with this.

 

[AV1611VET]

?

I really cant see where you are going with this.

Didn't you say this?

... if a creator exists its beyond science as that is a supernatural entity.

Wouldn't a fourth dimension of space be beyond science as well, but not necessarily supernatural?

Since science is so myopic in the first place, can reality comprise more than meets the eye?

 

[VirOptimus]

Didn't you say this?



Wouldn't a fourth dimension of space be beyond science as well, but not necessarily supernatural?

Since science is so myopic in the first place, can reality comprise more than meets the eye?

Not really no, mathematicly a fourt dimension is trivial to represent and also used very often in basic engineering, science and so on. For exampel, say that I want to represent temperature in a room in all points, then I need a x, y, z coordinate and also a temperature reading which then becomes the fourth dimension. You can kepp adding data like this to get many dimensions.

 

[Herman Hedning]

Wouldn't a fourth dimension of space be beyond science as well, but not necessarily supernatural?

Since science is so myopic in the first place, can reality comprise more than meets the eye?

Of course not, science deals with many more dimensions than that. Some branches of string theory with as many as 26 dimensions, and the currently popular M-theory with 11 dimensions.