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Discussion in 'Prayer Wall' started by jimigold, Jun 26, 2002.

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  1. jimigold

    jimigold Jimi for short

    This kinda runs on from a thread in the youth fellowship forum, but not directly and i need more people's help.

    I go to an alledged Christian school

    well it isn't. A lot of teachers arn't christians and there is only a small group of students that have been born again, and only a slight more that would describe themselves as christians.

    In this school i recently noticed the amount of plain cheating going on:
    • A week rarely goes by when i am not asked to lend my homework to someone in the morning registration because they have not done it. :rolleyes:
    • The cleverest of my christian friends is constantly cheating at his work ("oh can i just check my work with yours" etc) :sigh:
    • In the end of year english exam the marks were increased by 18 on the lang and 12 on the lit purely because parents had called in about low grades their sons had recieved. :(
    • It definately looks like the grade boundaries for our maths exam were 'fiddled' so that everyone in the A set (top set) got at least an A. For example i have a friend who got 58% (only 8% above half marks) and got an A.
    • When our maths teacher was collecting in the maths percentages (to check they were right) someone said that they got 55% (1% below the A boundary) and this is what the maths teacher did:
      1. *pulled out his own calculator*
      2. "by my calculations that is actually 56%. So you got an A"
      3. He then smiled mischieviously at the class. :eek:
      4. Worst of all, we have just started doing our maths coursework and it was a disgrace how our maths teacher has gone about it. Before we started he taught us a completely new topic all the time hinting that it was definitely not going to be in the coursework. He then proceeded to hand out the question sheet. (you can work the rest out!!!)
      5. His instructions for the coursework was as follows:
        1. "I am not allowed to tell you the answers, but if i accidently give you some information and you have a flash of inspiration then that's all right."
        2. "you are not allowed to copy a friends work, but if you hold a discussion and one of you has a flash of inspiration then that is fine."
        3. throughout the whole of our coursework lessons he has been giving us our own little flashes of inspiration, including one where he told us: "if we want to hold a conversation about the coursework he recommends..." And he named the 2 class geniuses who had got very far in the calculations!!! :cry:

        I am amazed that this school has become corrupt in this way.

        The entire of the A-set (minus a few) don't even seem to see cheating as an optional thing! One in particular laughed at the prospect of not cheating!

        Now i have not been able to find many relavent bible verses but i have found Psalm 112 that tells you the gifts of honesty.
        1. I don't feel cheating is right, can you find a bible verse telling me that a bit more clearly?
        2. Also do you know what i can do if someone approaches me with a request to copy my work?
        3. Is there anyway i can stop the cheating going on throughout my school?
        4. Is it always the case that the very clever, are more prone to cheating, and do it more often than the honest people, which is probably the only reason why they are in lower sets?
        5. And finally do you see cheating as wrong, or do you think that i am worrying about nothing?

          I would really appreciate your opinions and help!

          NOTE I go to a public school. ie: I have to pay to go there and it isn't run by the state/country.
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  2. GraftMeIn

    GraftMeIn The Masters Gardener

    jimigold, Have you talked to your parents about this, I think you might want to. Seems to me it's the students that are being cheated out of a good education.
    Sorry I don't have a lot of answers for you. as far as cheating being a sin, If you hand in work that you clearly didn't do on your own, and claim it's your work, then that's a lie thus breaking one of the ten commandments.
    Sorry I don't have more answers for you, but will certainly keep you in prayers, and ask God to show you how to best handle this.
  3. Gerry

    Gerry Jesus Paid It All

    I understand how you feel, and I appreciate your convictions.
    The sad fact is we are alledged to live in a "Christian" nation as well. Our Fathers founded this county for the expressed purpose of "religious" freedom. They talked about GOD a lot in some of thier early writings, like the CONSTITITION, and the Declaration of Independence.

    Yet America has tossed God completely OUT of government and Schools, and even a lot of "churches". We have made acceptable every perversion known to man and justified it by calling it an alternate lifestyle.

    We have legalized the MURDER of babies calling it by another name, like, "A woman's right to choose"! And instead of prosecuting those guilty of so called "partial birth abortion", in which a live baby is delivered and tossed onto a counter top like a piece of garbage, and allowed to scream and cry till it is dead.

    And people say: "I wonder if the 9-11 attacks were a judgement of God!" They wonder???

    Today in "Christian" America, an imbecile, and EVIL circuit appeals court judge ruled the "Pledge of Allegience" UNCONSTITUTION, because it contains the words "Under God".

    America has not yet tasted God's judgement, but God is Just, and America will suffer the consequences God has warned us of in His Written Word.

    I am proud of you for being a morally and ethically sound example of what a Christian is.

    1) Exo 23:1 Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.

    Exo 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.

    Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth], nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

    Lev 19:11 Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.

    These are just a few basic verses. There are hundreds more. You must define "cheat" and when you look it up it is defined as deception and/or trickery, and theft certainly fits in.

    2) You can smile and say, "I would love to help you out, but cheating is against my Christian morals and ethics.

    3) You can lead by example, and verbal proclamation of your beliefs, and sincere prayer.

    4) Actually I am not sure I fully understand your question as worded, but I wouls ay that cheating has more to do with ethics than cleverness. I think non-Christians are more prone to cheating than devout Christians.

    5) Worrying about nothing? Hardly! Dishonesty and deception are sins. Cheating is LYING! look: Lie

    an intentional violation of the truth. Lies are emphatically condemned in Scripture (Joh_8:44; 1Ti_1:9-10; Rev_21:27; Rev_22:15). Mention is made of the lies told by good men, as by Abraham (Gen_12:12-13; Gen_20:2), Isaac (Gen_26:7), and Jacob (Gen_27:24); also by the Hebrew midwives (Exo_1:15-19), by Michal (1Sa_19:14), and by David (1Sa_20:6).

    Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

    This will get you started into a study of your own.
  4. Blessed-one

    Blessed-one a long journey ahead

    wow, that's indeed serious stuff! teachers giving out answers on purpose! maybe you should try another school...

    no, honest people do get good grades too, as long as they do their work and don't become lazy!
    i think God has definitely find a good apple among the bad, i'd recommand witnessing to your christian friends first to get their attention back to God, and start from there. As christians they should be more receptive to the word and they should understand your concern.. hopefully.
    I'll be praying, don't lost heart by what you see in the present!
  5. psycmajor

    psycmajor self-Banned

    I don't think that there is a "Thou shalt not copy another's homework," but here are a few things along the line:

    Proverbs 11:1
    Dishonest scales are an abomination to the Lord, But a just weight is His delight. [I don't think God necessarily means scales literally.]

    Micah 6:11
    Shall I count pure those with the wicked scales, And with the bag of deceitful weights?

    Psalms 101:7
    He who works deceit shall not dwell within my house; He who tells lies shall not continue in my presence.

    Proverbs 22:8
    8 He who sows iniquity will reap sorrow, And the rod of his anger will fail.

    1 Corinthians 15:50
    50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

    Also, don't give in to academic dishonesty yourself because others appear to get away with it! In the end, they will have to take account to someone, even to God. I don't think you will, but just for the record...

    Isaiah 33:15-16
    15 He who walks righteously and speaks uprightly, He who despises the gain of oppressions, Who gestures with his hands, refusing bribes, Who stops his ears from hearing of bloodshed, And shuts his eyes from seeing evil: 16 He will dwell on high; His place of defense will be the fortress of rocks; Bread will be given him, His water will be sure.

    Matthew 6:25-34
    25 "Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature? 28 So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; 29 and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31 Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32 For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
  6. Smilin

    Smilin Spirit of the Wolf

    I can certainly understand and sympothize with the struggle of doing what is right according to God's Law.
    Since I cannot quote exact scriptures, I can only lend you the support that many of us have faced the same situation during our education. While I was in college, I faced many similar situations. At times it was IMPOSSIBLE for me to discern what was cheating, and what was not. Certainly copying answers from a friend on a test was defined as cheating, but using an HP programmable calculator to store equations, answers, text WAS NOT. A simple question...WHAT'S the difference? One problem I know you face is that some teachers/professors FAIL to define cheating. Some even SEEM to encourage it. For example, I walked into a physics class, ready for an exam, and the instructor was absent. The tests were simply laying on his desk, no instructions. Needless to say,
    the majority of the class utilized textbooks and notes for what would 'normally' be considered a closed book test. I felt cheated, and that I had wasted my times as well as hard-earned money. Other examples you can relate to; For graded homework, copying was prohibited, but group working sessions were strongly encouraged. Those who chose to attempt the work on their own almost always failed the assignments. Those who worked within groups were the only ones who succeeded. HOW CAN people work as a group, without copying the thoughts or works of another? And yes, unfortunately there is what we called the 'mystery curve', only a few were allowed A's, B's, the majority of the class got C's, and D's and F's were reserved for those who didn't even attempt an answer. This applied, REGARDLESS, of the grades. I performed a simple experiment during my senior year with a particular professor, that was notorious for this 'mystery curve'
    I did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING correct, and came out with a C for the class. Imagine that?
  7. Living for Him

    Living for Him RTrue24Fan For Rocky

    Psycmajor-EXCELLENT references...makes me somewhat envy your knowledge...


    Start a prayer journal for your school. Each time something happens or is said you don't agree with, or know that is wrong, write it down and pray over it. Continue to do this, and look back over time, and look at how God is changing things. He works in mysterious ways...and DOES answer our prayers. I will pray that God will give courage and strength to stand up and defy attacks from the enemy. YOU know who your battle is with, it's not against the flesh...


    Godbless, Lori
  8. jimigold

    jimigold Jimi for short

    Thanx everyone for all your help and insight. I think i've learnt that cheating is definitely wrong!

    I would like to thank:
    • GraftMeIn
    • Gerry
    • Blessed-one
    • psycmajor
    • smilin
    • and living for him.
    Oh wait, that's everyone!

    There are some great bible verses in there, and i would like to especially thank "living for him" for the gr8 suggestion of a prayer journal. I think i might just do that. There are so many things to pray for in our school (same as everywhere else i would imagine).

    People like "smilin" i really sympathize with, and well "it's really annoying isn't it!"

    Some more thanx goes to Gerry and psycmajor for their bible verses and to everyone else for their great encouragement (it's really gr8 guys/gals).

    Well thanx for the lot everyone, it has and will really help me in the future!

    But i'm still open to others if they care to post replies also ;)

    P.S. Thanx whoever gave me a load of blessings :hug:
  9. Raw Clay

    Raw Clay New Member

    To expound on that, even if they don't pay for it now, wait til they get out in the real world and need to know something, they gonna call you and ask for the answer??

    hmph, didn't think so :cool:

    Proclaim your faith, praise Him!! :clap: :clap: :clap:
  10. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

    Grading on the curve is not necessarily cheating, but it does sound like they're making it a little easier than it needs to be to get good grades.

    Still... there's nothing you can do to make kids care about their work if they don't already care, so far as I can tell.
  11. jimigold

    jimigold Jimi for short

    Thanx Raw Clay and Seebs :D

    I kinda feel like i'm being pulled into cheating also. It's just so easy. I have a friend who is practically forcing me to cheat. :(

    I'll try my best to fight it!
  12. psycmajor

    psycmajor self-Banned

    Nobody forces you to do anything!

    If they're really your friends, they should respect your wishes.
  13. wvmtnkid

    wvmtnkid Order of the Candle

    Hi Jimi!

    I don't know whether I have any suggestions for you (everyone else has given really good suggestions and bible verses) but I can at least give you something to think about. Really, the only people these teachers and other students are cheating are themselves. The teachers are not doing you any favors by making things easier. You can bet that when you go to college, you will not be afforded the same treatment. And especially, when you get into the work world, I don't think you will find many bosses or co-workers who are willing to provide the answers to tough questions. You will than have to stand on your own knowledge and if you don't know something, you better know how to find the answers or solutions on your own. Nobody will be there to hand it to you on a silver platter.

    I admire your convictions to want to take a stand on this. It's hard to go against "what everybody else is doing". As I am sure you know, just because everybody else is doing it, that doesn't it make it the right thing to do. Stick to what you know and believe to be right and in the long run, you will definitely come out ahead. I will pray that you will be able to persevere and be a witness to your friends and classmates.
  14. Auntie

    Auntie THANK YOU JESUS!!


    Try looking at it like this:  The whole purpose of going to school is to RECEIVE an education, so we can escape the consequences of ignorance and have a better future.  Cheating robs us of our opportunity to receive an education.  Cheating is self-sabotage.

    Work very hard to learn all you can, regardless of what anyone else says or does. 
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