Cheap Grace

[Cribstyl]

#1. Some people don't have a clue that: the grace that comes from Jesus Christ is life after death. (not cheap but free)
#2. Some people don't have a clue that forgiveness of sins is a contradiction to the law.
When you understand those 2 facts, then you maybe can understand what John 1:17 is saying.

 

[James Is Back]

fort.
However it is true God's grace cost you nothing, but it is not free.

That doesn't make sense and it's a contradiction. How can something not cost you anything but cost you something at the same time?

As I said Grace is free plain and simple. No attachments no nothing. It can't be free and cost you at the same time.

 

[BobRyan]

That doesn't make sense and it's a contradiction. How can something not cost you anything but cost you something at the same time?

As I said Grace is free plain and simple. No attachments no nothing. It can't be free and cost you at the same time.

Matt 10 - it takes everything to serve the Lord "take up your cross and follow Me..."

That is the command to the saved saints - to those already born-again -

The lost on the other hand must "give up" - surrender.

A ship sits at the dock - with "free passage" off of a sinking volcanic island -- anybody can enter.

But once on board everyone must follow the Captain's order - no matter what. If they don't - they are booted off the ship.

And the saints who chose to be eaten by Lions or burned alive during the dark ages rather than surrender faith in Christ - paid a high price indeed for "retaining" salvation. But to gain it initially - all they had to do was "surrender".

 

[Lulav]

None of which equates to what we know as the new covenant concept of grace. As has already been explained to you.

So you are saying that a Christian source that says chen and charis are equivalent is false?

What is your concept of NC grace?

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

That doesn't make sense and it's a contradiction. How can something not cost you anything but cost you something at the same time?

As I said Grace is free plain and simple. No attachments no nothing. It can't be free and cost you at the same time.

You misinterpreted my meaning. Grace is the act of God and therefore costs you nothing. If I buy you a gift, as a gift its free to you, but it cost me to acquire it. Grace is the price God paid to give you the free gift of salvation [everlasting life]. Grace is God's purchase price fully paid for in Jesus Christ and therefore costs you nothing. The gift you receive by grace also costs you nothing.

 

[Frogster]

So you are saying that a Christian source that says chen and charis are equivalent is false?

What is your concept of NC grace?

grace came via the gospel, not under law. The prophets under law looked for it, so did angels, that is how wonderful it is. If the Old cov people had it, why look for new cov grace?




1 peter 1:10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 12 To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into.

 

[Frogster]

That doesn't make sense and it's a contradiction. How can something not cost you anything but cost you something at the same time?

As I said Grace is free plain and simple. No attachments no nothing. It can't be free and cost you at the same time.

Preach it James!

Rom 5:15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

I see no difference between the grace that extended to Noah and the grace of the New Testament.

What we must understand is the Law, though perfect, is unable to save anyone, as it says, by the Law no one will be saved. That is why there were sacrifices in the Old Testament. Though the sacrifice of animals was unable to accomplish our salvation, God accepted these under a special dispensation until Christ. Old Testament saints were also saved by grace and not by the law. It seems silly to trust the sacrifice of a lamb for my salvation, but under the old covenant it was acceptable though in bondage to corruption [needing to be repeated].

The New Testament is better because it is the eternal God who has paid the price, and not just some bull or goat who would have died anyway. True saints in the Old Testament didn't trust in the sacrifices, they trusted in God who revealed to them the coming of our Lord in the flesh to pay for sin once and for all. I like that.

 

[Frogster]

There is what is called the reign, or dominion of grace, and it did not come until the cross, Rom 5 is clear on that.

Peter said THIS IS....

12 By Silvanus, a faithful brother as I regard him, I have written briefly to you, exhorting and declaring that this is the true grace of God. Stand firm in it.

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

grace came via the gospel, not under law. The prophets under law looked for it, so did angels, that is how wonderful it is. If the Old cov people had it, why look for new cov grace?




1 peter 1:10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 12 To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into.

I do not believe that we are in contention here, just a difference of understanding.

Take the verse you quoted, what had the prophets inquired and searched for? Read carefully, they inquired and searched for "this salvation" and in so doing "prophesied of the grace to you". They declared what God showed them he was going to do.

Grace is not our price to pay. I think people get the cost of discipleship mixed up with the cost of salvation, which is really what is being discussed here.

Let us use Paul as an example. Paul was forgiven freely of sins we would consider gross but on the day of his deliverance from sin he was told the cost of his discipleship. Paul was saved the moment he recognised the Lordship of Jesus and while praying heard what great things he would suffer for the sake of Christ: something he took aboard willingly. We know Paul was saved that day because he received the seal of the Holy Spirit with apostolic evidence [though not stated]. God confirmed his salvation to Ananias. Paul's apostolic life and ambition reveals his determination to discipleship as he walked in obedience to the Lord all the way to house imprisonment in Rome.

In short there is nothing you need do for salvation but there is plenty to do afterward.

Salvation cannot be cheap because it is free and extended by grace as a gift.

However your reasonable service is your gift back to God. As it says, we love him because he first loved us. How deep is your love?

 

[Frogster]

I do not believe that we are in contention here, just a difference of understanding.

Take the verse you quoted, what had the prophets inquired and searched for? Read carefully, they inquired and searched for "this salvation" and in so doing "prophesied of the grace to you". They declared what God showed them he was going to do.

Grace is not our price to pay. I think people get the cost of discipleship mixed up with the cost of salvation, which is really what is being discussed here.

Let us use Paul as an example. Paul was forgiven freely of sins we would consider gross but on the day of his deliverance from sin he was told the cost of his discipleship. Paul was saved the moment he recognised the Lordship of Jesus and while praying heard what great things he would suffer for the sake of Christ: something he took aboard willingly. We know Paul was saved that day because he received the seal of the Holy Spirit with apostolic evidence [though not stated]. God confirmed his salvation to Ananias. Paul's apostolic life and ambition reveals his determination to discipleship as he walked in obedience to the Lord all the way to house imprisonment in Rome.

In short there is nothing you need do for salvation but there is plenty to do afterward.

Salvation cannot be cheap because it is free and extended by grace as a gift.

However your reasonable service is your gift back to God. As it says, we love him because he first loved us. How deep is your love?

I am just showing that the grace we are in is from the gospel, and it came after the cross, it is new cov grace.

We are in a new reign, it only came by Christ, not before..

Rom 5:21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

I am just showing that the grace we are in is from the gospel, and it came after the cross, it is new cov grace.

We are in a new reign, it only came by Christ, not before..

Rom 5:21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Its ok. Jesus is the fulfilment of all, and grace is by Jesus Christ today. Let's be at peace. There are lost to be found.

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

I must leave for a while to do the will of God as he has shown me. I will try to come back when he allows me.

God be with you all and provide whatever it is you need for now and eternity.

With love.

 

[Cribstyl]

Besides your first question I have no idea what you are saying.

For the law was given through Moses, but God's unfailing love and faithfulness came through Jesus Christ.

These are not in opposition.

You don't have much to say about the scripture......why???
Jhn 1:17


For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
The scriptures is showing that the law was the covenant taught by Moses but grace and truth is the New Covenant taught by Jesus Christ. They're not the same message or messenger. We're not saying that the law opposes grace, that's your argument.
We're saying that the law and grace are not the same message or covenant.

Act 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

 

[Steeno7]

So you are saying that a Christian source that says chen and charis are equivalent is false?

What is your concept of NC grace?

I'm saying that a definition is only good to the extent that it matches the meaning. It is strange and telling that you would ask for what you should know from what I have already written.

 

[BobRyan]

Heb 4:2 'The GOSPEL was preached to us just as it was to them also"
Gal 3:7 the Gospel was preached to Abraham.
Heb 11 the OT saints saved by pursuing "Righteousness which is by faith"
Gal 1:6-9 there is only one Gospel.
John 8 "Abraham saw My day and was glad".
1 Cor 10 "they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ"
1 Peter 1 OT prophets saw "the sufferings of Christ AND the glories to follow"

 

[God's Child]

This thread has undergone a little clean up due to flaming.

Please remember to address the content of the post only and not the poster.

Also, keep in mind that flaming can result in bans and we don't want to see that happen. Have a blessed day.

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[James Is Back]

A good article on free Grace.

http://www.gracelife.org/resources/articles/?id=9#F04

 

[Lulav]

You don't have much to say about the scripture......why???
Jhn 1:17

I said all that needed to be said.

Besides your first question I have no idea what you are saying.

For the law was given through Moses, but God's unfailing love and faithfulness came through Jesus Christ.
These are not in opposition.

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

The scriptures is showing that the law was the covenant taught by Moses but grace and truth is the New Covenant taught by Jesus Christ.

Is that how you see it? Do you believe that there was no truth in the Covenant G-d made with Israel? These same laws that Jesus obeyed? and taught others to obey?

They're not the same message or messenger.

G-ds law is G-ds law, do you believe he changed his mind? Do you believe that Moses made up the commandments not G-d? Do you believe that Jesus was not the messenger of G-d?

"'Behold, I send My messenger, and he will prepare the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple, even the Messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight. Behold, He is coming,' says the L-RD of hosts"

We're not saying that the law opposes grace, that's your argument.

Ah, no, didn't you read my response that you are quoting?

'For the law was given through Moses, but God's unfailing love and faithfulness came through Jesus Christ."

These are not in opposition.

We're saying that the law and grace are not the same message or covenant.

See above.

 

[Lulav]

Lulav said: ↑
So you are saying that a Christian source that says chen and charis are equivalent is false?

What is your concept of NC grace?

I'm saying that a definition is only good to the extent that it matches the meaning. It is strange and telling that you would ask for what you should know from what I have already written.

So you believe in an OT grace and a NT grace, both very different from each other?