Charlie Hebdo

rusmeister · Jan 31, 2015

It's just that there are all kinds of victims, EC, and if you have the time and strength to pray for each individual in the world, more power to you.

But I got a little shock and lesson from a talk with my priest a number of years ago about who we pray for, and, sparing you the story, learned from it that it is not so meaningful to pray for complete strangers; that part of the value in prayer is in personal relationship. Abstract prayer for people that are not even close to our neighbor has much less value. So I'm not surprised that people see your thread in a different light than you intend.

SeventhValley · Jan 31, 2015

Kylissa said:
I'm not sure this is a fair characterization. Christ got upset about the money changers in the temple, which in a sense made a mockery of the Temple.

I get upset when people mock things I consider sacred. Of course I'm not going to get violent with them as a result, but it does upset and offend me.

I don't think I'm a loon. I could be. But I don't think so ...

In the temple or church building and out are two different things as Christ showed us.

Winchester · Jan 31, 2015

SeventhValley said:
Blasphemy laws never do any good. In Pakistan they are suppose to cover everyone but only Christians get prosecuted for them.

If all religions are protected then no one can say a bad word about anything which is ludicrous.

Blasphemy shows us who the loons are. Only loons get upset over a mockery even of something sacred. Jesus said they do not know what they do and they mocked God directly.

This just shows Islam is dangerous.

My two cents anyways.

I am too against any kind of blasphemy laws or state persecution against blasphemy no matter which religion or faith has been offended. Blasphemy should not be a matter of law rather than one of respect. You can still criticize any religion but you don't need to hurt feelings of their believers by offend what is the most holy to them. That's my point of view on that topic.

With Regards
Winchester

~Anastasia~ · Jan 31, 2015

SeventhValley said:
In the temple or church building and out are two different things as Christ showed us.

Respectfully, can you show a situation where Christ accepted blasphemy outside the temple without becoming upset? Other than the events leading up to the Crucifixion, and those were directed at Himself, who the people did not recognize as God. I'm not being snarky, but I'm sincerely wondering if I missed something?

Thanks.

inconsequential · Jan 31, 2015

gurneyhalleck1 said:
I have found myself feeling like you do, not agreeable to either side OF LOTS OF THINGS! I used to be so political, passionate about voting, feeling like "my guy" had to get elected to save America from 'the other side' and usher in justice and hope!!!

Now I feel like Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same evil coin and the outcomes are MEANINGLESS!

I feel that way about the "new Cold War" we're in with Russia. Both countries are so utterly flawed in their vision of the way the world should be.

I'm that way with most laws, too.

I think Orthodoxy has that effect on us---it opens our eyes to the HEAVENLY KINGDOM of Christ and how awesome it is, and we look at this temporal kingdom here on Earth that people hold up and laud so high, a humanist triumph, and it seems so utterly small and futile.

I think Orthodoxy makes us rely more on prayer and each other and the Christian Hope than putting our faith in violence or war or armies or politicians. In the end, those things will blow away like flowers in the wind. Only Christ's Kingdom or hell awaits.

I think we Orthodox develop a sort of healthy apathy toward some aspects of pop and political culture. Maybe that's a good thing!

I feel very much the same. When it all starts getting to me, I just read Zephaniah 3:8 and remember that Jesus is coming back and He's going to be all out of bubble gum. That usually shakes my priorities back closer to where they should be.

SeventhValley · Jan 31, 2015

Kylissa said:
Respectfully, can you show a situation where Christ accepted blasphemy outside the temple without becoming upset? Other than the events leading up to the Crucifixion, and those were directed at Himself, who the people did not recognize as God. I'm not being snarky, but I'm sincerely wondering if I missed something?

Thanks.

The ultimate blasphemy.

48 Now he who betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whoever I kiss, he is the one. Seize him. 49 Immediately he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, Rabbi! and kissed him. 50 Jesus said to him, Friend, why are you here? Then they came and laid hands on Jesus, and took him. 51 Behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck the servant of the high priest, and struck off his ear. 52 Then Jesus said to him, Put your sword back into its place, for all those who take the sword will die by the sword.

SeventhValley · Jan 31, 2015

inconsequential said:
I feel very much the same. When it all starts getting to me, I just read Zephaniah 3:8 and remember that Jesus is coming back and He's going to be all out of bubble gum. That usually shakes my priorities back closer to where they should be.

To be honest why should we fear God? You cannot love and fear.

If a wife stays with a husband due to fear of tourture...that would be evil not good.

She should only stay if she is free to leave without reprisal.

So if I fear God then is he worth worshipping? I do not know.

My old church taught God is good because he makes the rules(so therefore even murder and torture,rape if ordered by God would be good not evil) not because he is good itself.

SeventhValley · Jan 31, 2015

inconsequential said:
I feel very much the same. When it all starts getting to me, I just read Zephaniah 3:8 and remember that Jesus is coming back and He's going to be all out of bubble gum. That usually shakes my priorities back closer to where they should be.

My old church taught that the sermon on the mount should not be emulated as much as Revelations Jesus which is part of the millenialist hersey. They thought Revelations was literal.

SeventhValley · Jan 31, 2015

Winchester said:
I am too against any kind of blasphemy laws or state persecution against blasphemy no matter which religion or faith has been offended. Blasphemy should not be a matter of law rather than one of respect. You can still criticize any religion but you don't need to hurt feelings of their believers by offend what is the most holy to them. That's my point of view on that topic.

With Regards
Winchester

And most people even atheists do not blasphemy because they agree with you.

SeventhValley · Jan 31, 2015

Moving my question to St.Basils.

inconsequential · Jan 31, 2015

SeventhValley said:
To be honest why should we fear God? You cannot love and fear.

If a wife stays with a husband due to fear of tourture...that would be evil not good.

She should only stay if she is free to leave without reprisal.

So if I fear God then is he worth worshipping? I do not know.

My old church taught God is good because he makes the rules(so therefore even murder and torture,rape if ordered by God would be good not evil) not because he is good itself.

Actually, my post reflects my desire to see the world (as in the fallen system) slapped down by a Holy God and made aware of how far it is from what He intended it to be. My fear comes from the glee that thought brings to my heart and what that means about my own fallenness .

SeventhValley · Jan 31, 2015

inconsequential said:
Actually, my post reflects my desire to see the world (as in the fallen system) slapped down by a Holy God and made aware of how far it is from what He intended it to be. My fear comes from the glee that thought brings to my heart and what that means about my own fallenness .

Thanks. Also I moved my part of the thread to St.Basils.

dzheremi · Jan 31, 2015

SeventhValley said:
To be honest why should we fear God?

The holy scripture tells us (Proverbs 1:7) that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Abba John the Little tells us that humility and fear of God are the greatest of all virtues. Abba Poemen likewise tells us that we need to fear God on the same level that we need to breathe.

You cannot love and fear.

You absolutely can.

If a wife stays with a husband due to fear of tourture...that would be evil not good.

If God were an abusive husband, you'd have a point, but the God of traditional, Orthodox Christianity is not the angry sky-dad of many other forms of Christianity. He is the loving father and the just judge, not a torturer. If you're going to make analogies to personal family life to explain how God works, you might do better to ask yourself if there is ever a time when a father is justified in disciplining his children, and if in doing so he is still loving them or not.

MoreCoffee · Jan 31, 2015

Lord have mercy,
Christ have mercy,
Lord have mercy.

No matter what they did in life may the mercy and grace of God be shed upon those who were cut off from us by bullets unexpected and death unprepared for.

E.C. · Jan 31, 2015

As I wait for this thread to close....

rusmeister said:
It's just that there are all kinds of victims, EC, and if you have the time and strength to pray for each individual in the world, more power to you.

But I got a little shock and lesson from a talk with my priest a number of years ago about who we pray for, and, sparing you the story, learned from it that it is not so meaningful to pray for complete strangers; that part of the value in prayer is in personal relationship. Abstract prayer for people that are not even close to our neighbor has much less value. So I'm not surprised that people see your thread in a different light than you intend.

For the record, seeing the crap that the paper has created is offensive, yes. However, the principle is that even though they are our "enemies" in a certain light they still need praying for especially since they are fellow victims of Islamic violence. There are still a dozen people who are dead and were created in the image of God. They are still a dozen souls who need praying for.

I believe in free speech wholeheartedly and try to remember that it even applies to those whom I disagree with and are offended by. Communists, militant atheists and anti-Christian people are all people I disagree with wholeheartedly, but I can't get too angry with them since they do not have the Church to guide them. Didn't Christ say on the cross, "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do"?

James Is Back · Jan 31, 2015

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Thread closed by OP's request.

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