I don't believe someone is going to just get killed without the Lord allowing it.
You believe? But there is no scripture to base this on.
Take Jairus' daughter for example. Do you suppose that God allowed her death just so Jesus could heal her? Sounds kind of Calvinistic. And her healing was based upon Jairus' faith. So the Lord allowed the daughter to die with the possibility that Jairus might fail?
Originally Posted by
Alive_Again
If someone's life gets taken in this world and they go to judgment, it comes under review and permission is given. There are no "accidents".
The enemy is trying to kill us all of the time. They accuse us night and day. They often find many of us in perilous situations and plead for our demise (on a legal basis). They are often given a certain amount of "space" based on factors only God knows.
There are courts in Heaven and God also is not bound by space and time. Things are argued and the enemy can't just kill you or we'd all be dead.
No such thing as "accidents?"
Numbers 35:10-12 (Also in Joshua 20:3-9)
10 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘When you cross the Jordan into the land of Canaan, 11 then you shall appoint cities to be cities of refuge for you, that the manslayer who kills any person accidentally may flee there. 12 They shall be cities of refuge for you from the avenger, that the manslayer may not die until he stands before the congregation in judgment.
I think we have reference to accidental death here.
They seem that way. I'd venture to say quite often that certain "mechanical failures" are demonically oriented, but from our perspective, they are "accidents".
I remember I was way out of order years ago and found myself in a head-on collision. Although I broke my hand and I remember my head going forward and touching the windshield (no seatbelt on), I know there was mercy involved too that I didn't deserve. I'm certain that angels received direction before it happened. It was likely a setup with the enemy and I likely deserved a worse "sentence".
Sometimes judgment is rendered long before (from our perspective) and the enemy has a legal right to have access to you. It's a fearful thing sometimes. As Larry Lea used to say, "It's not a Leave it to Beaver world out here where a little mischief lands you a talking to by Ward. There's a battle going on out there and the enemy often argues to touch us.
I had a girlfriend who's house burned down when she was a little girl and it killed her two younger brothers. She was the last one out (she had nightmares all of the time even as an adult). As bad as that was, the enemy didn't get to kill those young boys (2, 3 years old?) without arguing their case. It was a Mormon family and we all know it's a false religion. God loved that family, but they were "exposed" by being in the wrong camp. I'm quite sure those boys are in Heaven, but it caused horrible heartache for the family. I've been to their gravesite in Utah.
It may sound cruel, but God could have commissioned angels to pull those boys out and we've all heard of such things God has done for His own (or for those in God's plan to live).
It may sound Calvanistic to you, but consider that although the enemy is allowed to do many things, he cannot do one thing beyond the space he is given. Rather than a "decision", I personally believe most of it is a "long leash", and it only seems to the enemy that they won over.
The judgments set upon the House of Israel in the historical books tell of how God does judge rulers, peoples and nations.
Originally Posted by
Alive_Again
If it's one of His people. I realize warfare goes on and people find themselves with bad things happening. I don't think anything that would jeopardize your permanent state of being after death is going to "just happen". We may see it in this way, but people are far more important than that.
Again, "you think." You use philosophy to determine your doctrines. The reality is that God gave us free will and dominion here on earth. "Just happen" is probably a misnomer, as you say.
I believe I have at least a limited, general understanding of God's sovereignty that allows me to see some things (even "accidents" that happen in this world are due to people not walking in the light of the revelation they've received, or they're just sinners who finally crossed a line into a measure of judgment. I believe we've likely all seen some of it.
You remember when Brother Hagin fell and broke his arm? The Lord appeared to him and talked to him about it. He got out of God's will and protection to a degree. If we could see into the spirit realm, we probably would have seen the enemy cause him to fall. To him, it seemed like an accident. I'm sure he thought about it after the face (in his hospital bed). The enemy has wanted a piece of him for some time.
After all, the man who stepped out in front of the bus didn't "just happen;" he was daydreaming, lusting and not paying attention. Yes, an accident. But certainly negligence on his part and not a thing that "just happen[ed]."
Definitely negligence was part of the picture, but often the "distraction" was given by the enemy. I don't attribute everything to the enemy, but I've seen evidence of it so many times. I've also seen many times where I was distracted behind the wheel and narrowly averted disaster (I'm sure the distraction on some of that was the enemy) and the intervention was angelic.
Originally Posted by
Alive_Again
If someone is endeavoring to walk with the Lord and they do something like that, I think there is some mercy involved in what happens in your life.
You request mercy for this man who generally endeavors to walk with the Lord, but later in your post you condemn all adulterers to hell. You forget one important caveat in that though, which I'll get to below.
All I'm saying is that the Lord is not likely to let you be taken out because you committed one serious sin. He also has a way of dealing with His people, using the prayers of His saints, and doing a work in "time" that allows for repentance and mercy (but we can't take it for granted).
His Word says adulterers can't enter in without cleansing. Is it not "philsophy" to concoct some scenario where God is forced to send you to Hell right after you did something. I don't believe God's judgment works that way.
He gave a path to redemption and salvation.
That's right and for believers it is repentance.
Originally Posted by
Alive_Again
He knows who is trying to follow Him and who is not.
Does He know this only now? Or does He know this outside of time? Did He know at the time of Jesus going to the cross that you would endeavor to follow Him? Did He know at the beginning of time that you would desire to be with Him?
You can say that He's always known who would make it, but from our standpoint and His fairness, it's up to us to fear and repent and believe and obey.
2 Thessalonians 2:13-1413 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
God knew you would follow Him "from the beginning." He chose you. He called you. You couldn't come to Him without Him first calling you. You must receive and accept this gift. But He knew you would. He also knows those who intellectually accept, but don't really accept and will later fall away. These are not really saved. And God knew them from the beginning as well.
All of us were chosen for salvation, even Judas. His plan didn't include planning for his denial. It was his choice.
I'll have to finish this later.