Changing the purpose of this forum

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Always a pleasure to hear from you Tela.

 

[gcfrankie]

What happened to the open op? I thought the subject was on changing the purpose of this forum! How about getting back to the original subject matter. All of this other stuff being discussed has nothing to do with the this title.
My understanding of this forum when it was started was to be open to progressive, moderate and formers so we could discuss and learn from each other even if we do not always agree. Learning comes from dialogue with each other and reading being backed up by proof from God's word and should not be about the individual person such as backbiting and spite towards that person. Did not Jesus tell us to love our neighbor as we love ourselves? So shouldn't these dialogues be done in love and not bitterness?
We are individuals and do not think alike and so we need to take this into consideration and if we do not like what is being said or the way it is said then why not just say I do not agree with you and leave it alone and do not respond but if you choose to respond then you are just as much at fault for keeping the bad attitude going as the one who started it. In any good dialogue there has to be give and take but that does not mean watering down God's word.
Personally I would hate to see this forum changed to exclude formers as there is a lot of good information put out to learn from when you can get past the bitterness and spite. I don't post hardly at all but I do read what is said and I have had some light-bulb moments. This should be a safe place for those transitioning and formers to come and get answers and be able to ask questions but with some of the spiteful attitudes I have seen lately is enough to scare any newbie away than to help them.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

What happened to the open op? I thought the subject was on changing the purpose of this forum! How about getting back to the original subject matter. All of this other stuff being discussed has nothing to do with the this title.
My understanding of this forum when it was started was to be open to progressive, moderate and formers so we could discuss and learn from each other even if we do not always agree. Learning comes from dialogue with each other and reading being backed up by proof from God's word and should not be about the individual person such as backbiting and spite towards that person. Did not Jesus tell us to love our neighbor as we love ourselves? So shouldn't these dialogues be done in love and not bitterness?
We are individuals and do not think alike and so we need to take this into consideration and if we do not like what is being said or the way it is said then why not just say I do not agree with you and leave it alone and do not respond but if you choose to respond then you are just as much at fault for keeping the bad attitude going as the one who started it. In any good dialogue there has to be give and take but that does not mean watering down God's word.
Personally I would hate to see this forum changed to exclude formers as there is a lot of good information put out to learn from when you can get past the bitterness and spite. I don't post hardly at all but I do read what is said and I have had some light-bulb moments. This should be a safe place for those transitioning and formers to come and get answers and be able to ask questions but with some of the spiteful attitudes I have seen lately is enough to scare any newbie away than to help them.

You've made some valid points.

BFA

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

This should be a safe place for those transitioning and formers to come and get answers and be able to ask questions but with some of the spiteful attitudes I have seen lately is enough to scare any newbie away than to help them.

What do you mean by transitioning? If it is similar to what one of the earlier posts stated transitioning out of the Adventist church then that was not the purpose of this forum and it appears that that is what former Adventists have tried to make this forum thus the need to change.

 

[StormyOne]

true... there may be a transitioning of more understanding of beliefs but I have never felt that this forum was a waystation out of the sda church.....

 

[sentipente]

I agree with RC's concern regarding "transitioning." This is not a half-way house.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

true... there may be a transitioning of more understanding of beliefs but I have never felt that this forum was a waystation out of the sda church.....

Nor should it be.

Rather, I see this as a place where progressives, moderates and formers can explore ways in which their perspectives can be either similar or different. We've already seen a number of these similarities and differences in the threads that are currently active. I enjoy the opportunity to explore my blind spots, and I wonder whether I could have that same opportunity if I only interacted with those who believe exactly as I do.

FROM RC: it appears that that is what former Adventists have tried to make this forum

I don't share that perspective and really have no idea what it's based upon. Perhaps there may be some who think that SDAs must leave their denomination. I don't happen to be one of them.

BFA

 

[gcfrankie]

RC, I have a question for you and that is were you ever an SDA? If not then you would not understand how hard it is to leave SDA and to really read the bible without text proofing as the church teaches and the influence of EGW. This is what transitioning is all about so my question is are you willing to help answer questions and lead in the right direction or just to argue with SDA's? The SDA's teaches fear in that if you leave the church and go to a Sunday church (which they call the daughters of a harlot) that you are not saved and will go to hell. They teach they are the only true remnent church.
So where should one go to seek the help they are looking for? It is very hard for those leaving to find another church as they have a real fear of being back into a legalistic system again. Do we just leave them out there to flounder their way through and they end up turning their back on God or point them to Him through His word only.
I again do not feel there needs to be a change as it gives two sides of a debate and lets the reader make a choice. That is what debating is all about. Not just one sided.

 

[gcfrankie]

To the moderate and progressive SDA's I did not mean this as a slam against you but when I joined the church all there was was the traditional teaching of these fears. I live in a very SDA community and they still teach these. I really hope that you as moderates and progressive have done away with these fears that were taught through EGW and the church. I have nothing against the people as I have some really good friends still in the church and they have asked me to join their home bible study group and I told them I would if we could strictly study from the bible without any outside influences from EGW but truely search God's word only. Transitioning is not only about leaving the church if that is their choice but truely searching and learning the truth.

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

RC, I have a question for you and that is were you ever an SDA? If not then you would not understand how hard it is to leave SDA and to really read the bible without text proofing as the church teaches and the influence of EGW. This is what transitioning is all about so my question is are you willing to help answer questions and lead in the right direction or just to argue with SDA's? The SDA's teaches fear in that if you leave the church and go to a Sunday church (which they call the daughters of a harlot) that you are not saved and will go to hell. They teach they are the only true remnent church.
So where should one go to seek the help they are looking for? It is very hard for those leaving to find another church as they have a real fear of being back into a legalistic system again. Do we just leave them out there to flounder their way through and they end up turning their back on God or point them to Him through His word only.
I again do not feel there needs to be a change as it gives two sides of a debate and lets the reader make a choice. That is what debating is all about. Not just one sided.

I grew up an SDA and am still an SDA. If you think the SDA church is simply traditional SDAism there is another forum for that (that was never true of the SDA church but to many people that is their only view of the SDA church). Progressive Adventism which was the purpose of this forum is the place we have offered for help. It is not about finding another denomination or independent church it is about building a better SDA church. Some I have seen even here have simply changed from one form of fundamentalism to another. They are the ones who make declarations about how people like me, actually said to me that I don't trust God etc. They are the ones that declare one most accept their interpretation of the Bible as the only possible interpretation, who declare the Bible inerrant and act as though it was handed down out of heaven, who ignore context and literary style as well as the very real possibility that authors worked from presuppositions which modern man would find totally unreasonable.

There is or was intended to be nothing about this forum that was afraid of controversy. Since Progressive Adventism has always been at odds with the Traditional Adventists. The problem came certain former's with no attempt to make statements based upon any reason began declaring other Christians as not Christians. Then it became evident that many of the former's coming here were merely trying to get people out of the Adventist church. Sadly trying to use the same techniques that have made Progressive Adventists oppose Traditional Adventists.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I grew up an SDA and am still an SDA. If you think the SDA church is simply traditional SDAism there is another forum for that (that was never true of the SDA church but to many people that is their only view of the SDA church). Progressive Adventism which was the purpose of this forum is the place we have offered for help. It is not about finding another denomination or independent church it is about building a better SDA church. Some I have seen even here have simply changed from one form of fundamentalism to another. They are the ones who make declarations about how people like me, actually said to me that I don't trust God etc. They are the ones that declare one most accept their interpretation of the Bible as the only possible interpretation, who declare the Bible inerrant and act as though it was handed down out of heaven, who ignore context and literary style as well as the very real possibility that authors worked from presuppositions which modern man would find totally unreasonable.

There is or was intended to be nothing about this forum that was afraid of controversy. Since Progressive Adventism has always been at odds with the Traditional Adventists. The problem came certain former's with no attempt to make statements based upon any reason began declaring other Christians as not Christians. Then it became evident that many of the former's coming here were merely trying to get people out of the Adventist church. Sadly trying to use the same techniques that have made Progressive Adventists oppose Traditional Adventists.

The bolded phrases represent statements that were painted with a very wide brush and statements that do not apply to me and many other former SDAs.

BFA

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

The bolded phrases represent statements that were painted with a very wide brush and statements that do not apply to me and many other former SDAs.

BFA

But it was the silence from the other former's when those statements were made that was equally as troubling. You continually act as if all statements are references to you. They are not but even what you don't do has consequences.

 

[gcfrankie]

RC, I am really hoping that the progressives can make a better church. What are the goals for making a better church?

 

[sentipente]

RC, I am really hoping that the progressives can make a better church. What are the goals for making a better church?

The first step is to get rid of the idea that the church is the place for better humans.

 

[synger]

If I may add an observer's fellowship two cents to this discussion of 'formers' and progressives.

What I've noticed is that some of the formers are not so much former SDAs as they are former Traditional SDAs. Many who post here still hold true to the core of SDA doctrine, and through discussion may come to a progressive SDA church.

 

[sentipente]

What I've noticed is that some of the formers are not so much former SDAs as they are former Traditional SDAs.

This is because progressives are accomodating enough that they don't have to leave.

 

[StormyOne]

If I may add an observer's fellowship two cents to this discussion of 'formers' and progressives.

What I've noticed is that some of the formers are not so much former SDAs as they are former Traditional SDAs. Many who post here still hold true to the core of SDA doctrine, and through discussion may come to a progressive SDA church.

good point.....confirming what RC has suggest that some may have traded one type of fundamentalism for another.....

 

[StormyOne]

This is because progressives are accomodating enough that they don't have to leave.

yep.... the tent is big enough for all.... though there always seems to be someone trying to push others out of the tent.....

 

[Byfaithalone1]

One might wonder whether this thread is productive.

BFA

 

[sentipente]

Well, it has produced 220 posts to date.