Changing the purpose of this forum

[RC_NewProtestants]

So who has the ability to make that decision? If this forum is for progressives, moderates and formers, shouldn't formers have some input in that decision?

BFA

Actually no they should not. The forum is for people of similar idea's to communicate. Formers in most all instances have moved on to some new denomination or congregation. In which case if they were looking for like minded people that is where they could go. We opened this to formers because there were several former SDA who were in substantial agreement with Progressive Adventists and we wanted to offer them a place to communicate with us. The purpose was not to create a Former Adventist forum. We did not for-see the age old expression of give someone and inch they will take a mile. But clearly that is what has been happening here. As now it is substantially former Adventists who are antagonistic to Progressive Adventism. That was not the purpose of the forum and we should change that. We can still allow their antagonism in a debate subforum however, so that should be acceptable to all and I suggest we take whatever action is needed to start the process.

 

[Sophia7]

I think the forum could still be open to all in the debate area, So if some former Adventists wanted to try and tell us that we have no free will and Progressive Adventist wanted to argue with their assumptions they could in the debate subforum. I don't like the way these things keep intruding into other threads as it is now. Moriah was the only person who I have heard of who said she was a Progressive Adventist and who denied free will.

Now the debate which goes on in the Adventist church over the so called Openness of God, would be appropriate in the Progressive Adventist section because it is of concern to Progressive Adventists.

What we have now is probably a mistake because it makes former Adventists of whatever stripe think that this is a good forum for their "ministry" to Adventists. And as we have seen it is mainly used by fundamentalists who have little in common with Progressive Adventists. Why some of them simply deny that a Progressive Adventist can trust God or value the Bible because the Progressive Adventist does not hold to the fundamentalist dogma.

What it comes down to his college level discussion interjected with kindergarten discussion. They don't mess well, the black and white world of the fundamentalist does not mess with the world that is multicolored. And there is no reason to go back to that simplistic religion once you understand that there is far more then that simplistic religion. It is rather like having someone say "prove to me from the Bible that I can use electricity" It is not something found in the Bible so we have to rely on using reason but their reaction is that human reason is foolishness. There is no place to go with such people, at least in my opinion. But we can certainly provide a subforum for them to attempt to tell us that their reason is God's but I don't think we need to have them intruding upon the more progressive understanding.

I guess my question is how would adding a debate sub-forum solve what the Progressives are seeing as a problem? Wouldn't you still have the same issues, but they would just be moved out of the main forum? Is that what you want--to still allow debate but also have a "safe haven" (as CF calls it) for Progressives (and Evangelical Adventists and maybe Moderates; you would have to decide whom to include and what titles to use)?

If so, another issue is that CF's policy now is to moderate by content rather than by poster. So you could limit debate against whatever statement of faith you choose to use, but you couldn't say that certain people or groups wouldn't be allowed to post or debate. I guess you could make the main forum a non-debate area if you wanted to.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

We did not for-see the age old expression of give someone and inch they will take a mile.

What is the mile that I have taken? Can you be specific so that we can better understand the problem that needs resolution? If I have been inappropriate, it sure would be nice to know what I've done so that I can correct it.

But clearly that is what has been happening here.

In what way? Of all of the behaviors that you have listed (i.e. antagonism, stalking posters, coercing posters to post on certain subjects, displaying "fundamentalism"), I am not cogniscent of having engaged any of them. If I am guilty of something, it sure would be helpful to know what I've done so that I can avoid repeating my mistakes. Is this truly an issue of inappropriate behavior, or does it relate more to your distaste for positions that are different than your own?

As now it is substantially former Adventists who are antagonistic to Progressive Adventism.

Can you share with me the specific ways in which I have crossed the line into antagonism? I don't know how to improve my posts if I don't know what it is that I have done wrong.

That was not the purpose of the forum and we should change that.

Who determines the purpose of this forum? If we are going to split up the progressives and the formers, must that result in two separate forums, a progressive SDA forum and a former SDA forum? Is that what you want? If so, why?

We can still allow their antagonism in a debate subforum

What antagonism? You seem to state this as a fact, and it would be helpful to know the specific sources of your concern. If you have a valid criticism, it would be most helpful to offer offending parties the opportunity to improve their approach to posting here. To date, I've not been sanctioned for writing inappaprioriate posts, so I'm really quite clueless as to the source of your concern.

however, so that should be acceptable to all and I suggest we take whatever action is needed to start the process.

And, for the reasons cited, I am opposed to such a change and would encourage the moderators to provide further clarification regarding the input (if any) the formers can have in this discussion. Is this forum truly for progressives, moderates and formers, or is it only for progressives and moderates?

I need to reflect on this further. Even if RC's approach is the best approach, how would his approach be administered? Would RC simply pick and choose which posters he likes and all others must be banished to a separate forum? Upon what official statement of faith would RC base his selections? I don't remember ever seeing an official progressive SDA statement of faith.

BFA

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

BFA give it a rest. Why do you think everything is about you? Adventruth posts such comments as:

1) You don't trust the bible.

2) You don't trust the God of the bible.

3) You don't think Chirst was the all sufficient atonement for sin, that there is another way to gain heaven.

So if this is the kind of content that the CF moderators accept as AT used it several times then I don't know what kind of content the moderators use to judge posting in respective forums. In which case I don't see much reason to have a Progressive Adventist forum at all. Because the fundamentalists would simply make their declarations that we are not Christians, we don't trust God etc.

In other words we have no Progressive Adventist forum, that is pretty much the case right now as it stands and the point is to change that. If we can't manage that then at least remove the term Progressive Adventist from the name so that we don't give people the wrong idea, make it former adventists and it can degenerate in to SDA hate like Former Adventist fellowship does.

 

[StormyOne]

Stormy, there is no doubt that you went through some stuff in there early on. However, you also dished some stuff out.

which pales when we consider the "stuff" you dished.....but I could be mistaken....

 

[Adventtruth]

BFA give it a rest. Why do you think everything is about you? Adventruth posts such comments as:


So if this is the kind of content that the CF moderators accept as AT used it several times then I don't know what kind of content the moderators use to judge posting in respective forums. In which case I don't see much reason to have a Progressive Adventist forum at all. Because the fundamentalists would simply make their declarations that we are not Christians, we don't trust God etc.

In other words we have no Progressive Adventist forum, that is pretty much the case right now as it stands and the point is to change that. If we can't manage that then at least remove the term Progressive Adventist from the name so that we don't give people the wrong idea, make it former adventists and it can degenerate in to SDA hate like Former Adventist fellowship does.

Well RC you most certainly dished out your attacks as well but I won't complain about them. But I think we should at least see what Isaid in context.

Quote By RC:

For you other Progressive Adventists out there, note that most of the above kind of thinking comes because these people believe God cannot freely forgive but had to have Christ pay the penalty for sin therefore as they say God saves us through Christ's actions of suffering the penalty of sin and being our substitute. so that unless one believes that one particular atonement theory one cannot be saved. It logically falls apart however when you look at the Old Testament people but they will then say that they saw Christ in the sacrifices, which of course they did not but once given over to fundamentalism reality is the first casualty.

​

I'm wondering how many people on these boards actually believe what you just said. This quote by you shows a few things about you.

1) You don't trust the bible.

2) You don't trust the God of the bible.

3) You don't think Chirst was the all sufficient atonement for sin, that there is another way to gain heaven.

4)That you don't believe that Christ was humanities substitute for our sin.

5) That there was no legal reason why Christ had to die.

6) That you lack knowledge and are unlearned in old testament studies.

There are a number of other things that could be mentioned of your skills. But for now I will leave it at that so others can see.


AT
__________________

 

[Byfaithalone1]

BFA give it a rest. Why do you think everything is about you?

To be honest, I don't think it IS about me. That is the point of my posts in this thread. However, even though it is not about me, you would seek to preclude me from posting in this forum. Obviously, I must speak up about that.

Adventruth posts such comments as:

That is between you and Adventruth. However, I do note that your agenda is more personal and this ought to demonstrate to the moderators the real motive behind your original post in this thread.

So if this is the kind of content that the CF moderators accept as AT used it several times then I don't know what kind of content the moderators use to judge posting in respective forums.

I cannot comment on that. However, I wonder whether this is the real reason for your desire to banish all formers. It feels a bit like the witch hunts in U.S. history.

Perhaps you don't feel enough protection from the moderators from posting behavior that you feel is inappropriate. If so, I hardly see the wisdom of banishing an entire group of posters in order to solve this problem. After all, even after the formers are banished, there will be a progressive SDA who will come along and push your buttons. How small will you subdivide the forum in order to find a group with whom you enjoy interacting?

In which case I don't see much reason to have a Progressive Adventist forum at all. Because the fundamentalists would simply make their declarations that we are not Christians, we don't trust God etc.

I've never said that. And there are other non-SDAs who post here who have never said that. You are painting with a wide brush if you are to banish formers simply in light of your impressions of the statements of one poster.

In other words we have no Progressive Adventist forum, that is pretty much the case right now as it stands and the point is to change that.

By banishing all non-SDAs? Makes no sense to me. If you have concerns about the posts of one specific poster, why not take those concerns to the moderators and then trust the process to work as it ought to?

If we can't manage that then at least remove the term Progressive Adventist from the name so that we don't give people the wrong idea, make it former adventists and it can degenerate in to SDA hate like Former Adventist fellowship does.

I do not hate SDAs. I've said that several times. But let me say it again. I do not hate SDAs. If anything I have written suggests that I hate SDAs, then please give me the opportunity to clarify as I have communicated poorly.

God loves SDAs and so do I.

BFA

 

[woobadooba]

which pales when we consider the "stuff" you dished.....but I could be mistaken....

Oh give it a break. You were one of the worst of my antagonists! You are also a back-stabber.

I initially stuck up for you, but when we disagreed on a trivial matter your whole attitude changed towards me.

You have no idea what kind of emotional stress you and your harassing friends caused me. So let's just put this to rest now, as your opinion doesn't mean anything to me anymore.

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

That is between you and Adventruth. However, I do note that your agenda is more personal and this ought to demonstrate to the moderators the real motive behind your original post in this thread.

No it is not simply about me and Adventruth. It is about the atmosphere on the forum. It is where people like you will say nothing against the people like Adventruth, nearly all the Progressive Adventists who regularly post here have in effect told him to back off, none of the former Adventists say a thing. That tells us a lot about what the former Adventist people want for this forum verses what the Progressive Adventists want. There is no need for and it goes against what this forum put forth as objectives to have people on here saying that others don't trust God, or others don't see Jesus Christ atonement because it is a different atonement theory than theirs.

The fact is that the narrow fundamentalist viewpoint is polluting the respect and acceptance that this forum tried to deliver. Yes the former Adventists could have acted to change things before but their inaction results in the need for the rest of us to change things before it is too late and all Progressive Adventists leave this forum, which I am pretty sure will happen if changes are not made.

 

[Sophia7]

BFA give it a rest. Why do you think everything is about you? Adventruth posts such comments as:


So if this is the kind of content that the CF moderators accept as AT used it several times then I don't know what kind of content the moderators use to judge posting in respective forums. In which case I don't see much reason to have a Progressive Adventist forum at all. Because the fundamentalists would simply make their declarations that we are not Christians, we don't trust God etc.

In other words we have no Progressive Adventist forum, that is pretty much the case right now as it stands and the point is to change that. If we can't manage that then at least remove the term Progressive Adventist from the name so that we don't give people the wrong idea, make it former adventists and it can degenerate in to SDA hate like Former Adventist fellowship does.

You would need to formulate a statement of faith if you wanted to put more restrictions on debate by content. You do have the statement about tradition, but that's about it:

Non-members may debate here, but we ask that those wishing to discuss present the reasons for your ideas rather then the traditions which may have informed your ideas. Even though various church traditions may have merit, they are to be used as secondary or supporting material for a reasoned argument. Whether you are arguing from faith or from logic or some combination thereof, respect the other person's point of reference, and address the post topic rather than the posting member.

That's what was agreed to in the FSG discussions. Further limitations would require revision of the FSGs.

 

[Sophia7]

No it is not simply about me and Adventruth. It is about the atmosphere on the forum. It is where people like you will say nothing against the people like Adventruth, nearly all the Progressive Adventists who regularly post here have in effect told him to back off, none of the former Adventists say a thing. That tells us a lot about what the former Adventist people want for this forum verses what the Progressive Adventists want. There is no need for and it goes against what this forum put forth as objectives to have people on here saying that others don't trust God, or others don't see Jesus Christ atonement because it is a different atonement theory than theirs.

The fact is that the narrow fundamentalist viewpoint is polluting the respect and acceptance that this forum tried to deliver. Yes the former Adventists could have acted to change things before but their inaction results in the need for the rest of us to change things before it is too late and all Progressive Adventists leave this forum, which I am pretty sure will happen if changes are not made.

If personal attacks are being made, that goes against both the sitewide rules and your FSGs, so they can be reported.

If you want to revise your FSGs and add a statement of faith to use as a standard for limiting debate, we can start a discussion on that.

 

[StormyOne]

Oh give it a break. You were one of the worst of my antagonists! You are also a back-stabber.

I initially stuck up for you, but when we disagreed on a trivial matter your whole attitude changed towards me.

You have no idea what kind of emotional stress you and your harassing friends caused me. So let's just put this to rest now, as your opinion doesn't mean anything to me anymore.

you are confusing me for what you did and continue to do... if you were experiencing stress you had the option of taking a break from the forum... you did not.... so that says something about you..... then as now your perception is skewed and unreliable....

 

[woobadooba]

you are confusing me for what you did and continue to do... if you were experiencing stress you had the option of taking a break from the forum... you did not.... so that says something about you..... then as now your perception is skewed and unreliable....

You can avoid taking any responsibility now for what had happened, but in the day of judgment you won't be able to ignore the facts!

Your closet door will be wide open then!

 

[StormyOne]

You can avoid taking any responsibility now for what had happened, but in the day of judgment you won't be able to ignore the facts!

Your closet door will be wide open then!

like you ever have taken responsibility for your tirades, threats and harassing comments... and please the threatening thing is soooo old, any new tricks?

Its okay Woob, I know you can't help yourself, have a good weekend...

 

[woobadooba]

like you ever have taken responsibility for your tirades, threats and harassing comments... and please the threatening thing is soooo old, any new tricks?

Its okay Woob, I know you can't help yourself, have a good weekend...

For anything that I have done wrong I have apologized.

Don't forget however, that much of my behavior was the result of your harassing behavior.

I asked you repeatedly to back off and you continued to follow me around from post to post harassing me to no end. Almost every thread I started was locked because of this.

It is a real pity that you have to try to hide behind my faults in order to not take responsibility for yours.

Now, I'm done with you. I won't waste any more of my valuable time on responding to your posts.

 

[StormyOne]

For anything that I have done wrong I have apologized.

Don't forget however, that much of my behavior was the result of your harassing behavior.

I asked you repeatedly to back off and you continued to follow me around from post to post harassing me to no end. Almost every thread I started was locked because of this.

It is a real pity that you have to try to hide behind my faults in order to not take responsibility for yours.

Now, I'm done with you. I won't waste any more of my valuable time on responding to your posts.

Is that what you tell yourself? That your behavior was the result of others harassing you? Unbelievable, but if that's what you need to feel better about your behavior then by all means..... The pity is that you continue to live in denial and project onto others what you yourself have done and continue to do.... there is help for that you know... again, have a good weekend....

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

If personal attacks are being made, that goes against both the sitewide rules and your FSGs, so they can be reported.

If you want to revise your FSGs and add a statement of faith to use as a standard for limiting debate, we can start a discussion on that.

I tend not to report people because in reality it does nothing, several days later a moderator will delete an offensive or violating report. The damage has been done by then people just get hot and start responding with an escalation of attacks. A forum is only as good as the forum members. Rude or narrow minded members lead to a rude and narrow minded forum. Just look at some of the comments on the other SDA forum about what is going on here.

I simply think it would be easier to have a respectful and profitable forum if the members are in fact Progressive Adventists rather then former Adventists with axes to grind or bent upon attacking anything that is different from their beliefs. That was the main problem with the other forum, the people did not know how to discuss without attacking and accusing, now we have those kind of people here, and so far they have been in the former Adventist camp. We could certainly respond in kind to them but that is not good for the forum or for us individually.

Most Progressive Adventists have gotten past those accuse and attack techniques. I think we would only have to change the FSG's in a minor way simply make the name change and add an additional area for non Progressive Adventists to debate with Progressive Adventists. Then they won't have to derail topics as happens now. True moderators could stop that but it does not seem to happen so this is would be a better way of dealing with the problem by making it easy if a non Progressive becomes involved in the conversation in a confrontational way. I think a lot of us have really gotten tired of having to deal with certain types of Christians.

 

[Sophia7]

OK, so what would you propose for the forum name?

 

[VictorC]

OK, so what would you propose for the forum name?

The Church of the Eternal Transition.

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

OK, so what would you propose for the forum name?

Progressive Adventists