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Changing churches

BryanW92

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How do you pastors do it?

I'm leaving my church in the next couple of weeks. I need to get out of there for my own spiritual health, but I have so many good friends that I'll be leaving behind.

I've heard that when clergy leaves a church, you aren't allowed to initiate contact with anyone in the old congregation for a year. Do you feel like you're abandoning friends, or is it really just a matter of moving on to a new job?

Since I've never been divorced before, this is probably the hardest thing I've ever had to do.
 

circuitrider

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Bryan, as you are discovering, it can be really tough. It is like leaving family when you leave a church with friends you love. It is hard to maintain ethical boundaries and sometimes hard for your former church to understand why you can't be in church with them particularly during that first year.

I also have some conversations I can no longer have with friends on facebook. Someone will say, "what do you think about this thing going on at our church." I have to respond, "As your former pastor I cannot comment on the work of your church. You need to talk to your pastor about that."

But also when you know it is the right time to move on new relationships and a new church is also a time of growth and excitement.

But still change, even good change, is painful in some ways.
 
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RomansFiveEight

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That's a good question and I hope to hear some answers too. Are you moving to a new appointment?

I don't have confirmation yet, but discussions with my DS seem to indicate I may move this June into a larger appointment, perhaps 3/4 time or even full time. The church I'm currently serving is wonderful. It's a 1/4 time appointment of about 35 people each Sunday. The people are just incredible. I too am unsure of the appropriate boundaries in play when/if I leave. When I was first appointed, I was appointed as a lay-minister. So, whenever we'd have a Baptism, I'd call on the former Pastor (who was a retired elder) and he would come down that Sunday and would Baptize. That never seemed to be an issue. But I wonder in the context of the friends I have made?

I am curious to see what others have said. My grandmother is a retired UM Elder who moved often in her long career. She just tells me it's always sad but it's also always exciting. "You make new friends" she told me last week. I, too, have heard that it's important to keep your distance. In reality, when I was first appointed there if the former Pastor was still playing cards or going out to dinner with a number of parishioners as he did before, it would be really hard to be their Pastor. Why would they come to me when they are going to see the Pastor they have had for some time and are comfortable with? Some even thought I should've called a different elder to handle Baptisms before I was licensed, but I don't at all regret the decision of inviting him back for those moments.

It's gonna hurt to leave this Parish. Sorry I don't have any advice for you; but at least I have some sympathy. Curious to see what some of our veterans in the connectional pulpit may have to say here.
 
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circuitrider

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RomansFiveEight,

That was very kind of you to invite back the most recent pastor to help with a baptism. But if you had asked me, on ethical grounds, I'd have been glad you'd asked but I'd have refused.

I say this from having the bad experience of a former pastor who didn't know how to avoid crossing over ethical lines and caused me loads of trouble. He wasn't doing it on purpose. But people loved him and kept inviting him back for things. I never felt like I was pastor of that church.

So when I leave an appointment I don't ever come back to do a wedding, funeral, baptism, etc. I may some day visit for a worship service a year or two down the road. But then even only as a very very occasional kind of thing. I'd never regularly attend a church I used to pastor.

All that may sound draconian. But I believe strongly I shouldn't look for my spiritual support from a church that I used to pastor for the sake of that church and its ministry and its pastor.

Blessings,
 
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RomansFiveEight

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RomansFiveEight,

That was very kind of you to invite back the most recent pastor to help with a baptism. But if you had asked me, on ethical grounds, I'd have been glad you'd asked but I'd have refused.

I say this from having the bad experience of a former pastor who didn't know how to avoid crossing over ethical lines and caused me loads of trouble. He wasn't doing it on purpose. But people loved him and kept inviting him back for things. I never felt like I was pastor of that church.

So when I leave an appointment I don't ever come back to do a wedding, funeral, baptism, etc. I may some day visit for a worship service a year or two down the road. But then even only as a very very occasional kind of thing. I'd never regularly attend a church I used to pastor.

All that may sound draconian. But I believe strongly I shouldn't look for my spiritual support from a church that I used to pastor for the sake of that church and its ministry and its pastor.

Blessings,

I agree with you. It's probably not a decision I would make again, but it's not a decision I regret; does that make sense? I have a bit of a conflict now, in fact. I have an elderly couple who live 40 minutes away and no longer attend, they attend the UM church near their home. But when they are in the hospital, they call me. They invited me to their anniversary party, but didn't invite the Pastor of their current church (which I didn't know until I got there!). In fact, they invited my whole church, but nobody from their current church. They come to all of our dinners and events, and come to Christmas and Easter here- but they attend Sunday mornings at this other church. I make it a habit of calling the Pastor at the church they attend every time they call me to let him know that they are in the hospital / sick / etc., but he's never shown up (according to them). I'm in such a conflict on that one because I don't want them to have no Pastoral care, if this individual really is not caring for them. But I also don't want to step into his boundaries. My mentor told me I should continue caring for them. But that one has always been heavy on my heart. But ultimately, I suppose they are still a part of my Parish as they have not moved churches; they are just attending (regularly!) elsewhere. What do you think?

Last week I went to dinner with a couple parishioners that really broke my heart. They took my wife and I out to dinner to announce that one of their sons was now engaged, and the other (older brother, already married) was expecting a baby. What a weekend! It broke my heart though, because 9 months from now is after June! As is next spring, when the younger brother wants to get married. If I move, I'll miss it! But I guess, that's part of it all!
 
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circuitrider

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That is a tough one!

Did they actually join the other church or are they just attending? I know that is a technicality. But it may make some difference. But again, it is tough. And when the other pastor doesn't step in and try to give pastoral care if leave you hanging wondering what the pastor really wants.
 
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BryanW92

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Bryan, as you are discovering, it can be really tough. It is like leaving family when you leave a church with friends you love. It is hard to maintain ethical boundaries and sometimes hard for your former church to understand why you can't be in church with them particularly during that first year.

I also have some conversations I can no longer have with friends on facebook. Someone will say, "what do you think about this thing going on at our church." I have to respond, "As your former pastor I cannot comment on the work of your church. You need to talk to your pastor about that."

But also when you know it is the right time to move on new relationships and a new church is also a time of growth and excitement.

But still change, even good change, is painful in some ways.

That's exactly what I'm discovering. Even though I'm not clergy, I am the chairman of Church Council, AC delegate, adult Sunday school teacher, and fill-in Lay Preacher so I carry a lot of weight.

My problem is that if I go on a "farewell tour", going around saying good-bye to everyone, they'll want to know why I'm leaving. I don't want to poison the well (or even be accused of it) by telling anyone, so it would be best to just slip out.

But that means that I only get to say good-bye to the ones that I won't be saying good-bye to (people involved in Emmaus or the ones with whom I have relationships outside of church).

I've quit jobs before. This is a hundred times harder.
 
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BryanW92

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That's where being appointed clergy is easier. I can always just say, I'm moving because I have a new appointment.

I agree, and no one has to know if you requested it or the DS just thought it was time.

Oh well. Just pray that we find a new church fast.
 
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circuitrider

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I agree, and no one has to know if you requested it or the DS just thought it was time.

Oh well. Just pray that we find a new church fast.

Yes and one of the truths of the appointment system is that even if I never request a move and the church I'm at never requests I move, the needs of the conference may be that I need to move to another church because they need me more in a new place than the one I'm in.

I frankly find itineracy freeing. I originally pastored in churches with a call system. So I was always in the position of trying to discern how long I should minister in a particular congregation. I find the appointment system freeing. Other than me expressing to my DS my opinion annually, it it is only my concern to continue to minister where I am appointed.
 
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GraceSeeker

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Back to the original question:

How do you pastors do it?

Some do it well; some do it poorly. Sometimes there is a lot of pain, and (to be hones) sometimes it is with a sigh of relief. But mostly you just do it because that's part of what you signed up for when you signed on to itinerate.


I've heard that when clergy leaves a church, you aren't allowed to initiate contact with anyone in the old congregation for a year.
That may be an annual conference rule unique to Florida; I don't know. That particular way of saying to give the new pastor space is not how it has been worded to us in my conference.

Do you feel like you're abandoning friends, or is it really just a matter of moving on to a new job?
Where you've made friends it feels very much like this. It is one of the hardest things about being a pastor. I'm in a situation where I moved 5 hours only to have the mother-in-law of my wife's best friend from our previous congregation to be living directly across the street from us. How do you not say "Hi!" when they are sitting out in the front yard to watch the 4th of July parade?

Last month I was back at my old ski hill where I taught lessons for the last 5 years, visiting old friends completely unrelated to any church I've ever served (and in a complete different state even), when my last youth group shows up. And they all want to hang out with me.

Sometimes you can't walk away. On the last occassion, I just sought out the new pastor who had brought them, and sat down with him. Other times you wave, you make small talk, you may even engage in conversation about family, but you don't talk about the adminstration of the church and you don't evaluate (or even ask) about the condition of the ministry. The connections that remain are related to praying for the well-being of individual people. You're not concerned with policies, procedures, or programs of the congregation.

As you leave, since you are the chair of the board, I think that you may wish to make your decision to leave known at a board meeting (give the pastor a heads up you're going to make said announcement in advance of the meeting). Better for you to announce it, than for the pastor to have to report it. I don't think that "slipping out" really is all that helpful. There will be speculation either way. But if you don't address it yourself, you leave it for everyone else to fill in the blanks with their own ideas. You don't have to go into detail, but you can lay to rest any rumors that you have heard bandied about when other people left, because you can rest assured that they will all be suggested as reasons for your leaving.

And if the reason is the pastor, then I still suggest the above. You can avoid poisioning the well by just saying that you're needing a change and though you don't know where you're going to end up, you pray the people of the congregation can support you personally in your decision because it has been one of the hardest you've ever had to make.
 
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RomansFiveEight

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That's where being appointed clergy is easier. I can always just say, I'm moving because I have a new appointment.

My District Superintendant once gave me express permission to blame her when folks get upset! She was sort of joking of course; but it is one of the neat things about a connectional system!

Yes and one of the truths of the appointment system is that even if I never request a move and the church I'm at never requests I move, the needs of the conference may be that I need to move to another church because they need me more in a new place than the one I'm in.

I frankly find itineracy freeing. I originally pastored in churches with a call system. So I was always in the position of trying to discern how long I should minister in a particular congregation. I find the appointment system freeing. Other than me expressing to my DS my opinion annually, it it is only my concern to continue to minister where I am appointed.


I too appreciate the itineracy. It's a wonderful thing, for the churches too. I think connectional churches with appointed Pastors tend to be stronger (in my perception) on their own; relying less on the Pastor. Which is a good thing, because it allows the Pastor to focus on their role and to lead in their own way.


That is a tough one!

Did they actually join the other church or are they just attending? I know that is a technicality. But it may make some difference. But again, it is tough. And when the other pastor doesn't step in and try to give pastoral care if leave you hanging wondering what the pastor really wants.

No, they are still members of my Parish. That's why I have not declined or discontinued caring for them. It just feels like a conflict of interest, but as they are members of my charge I do feel called to care for them. They are at every event and come to worship at least twice a year. Although I have encouraged them to be more involved in their "home parish". I think the reality is, they feel at home here at this church, as it's been their church for more than 80 years (both were baptised, confirmed, and married in this church). So they feel like this other church is just a place to get fed on Sunday since in their old age traveling 40 minutes to go to church on Sunday morning is just too hard.
 
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circuitrider

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GraceSeeker has a good point that as the chair of the Church Council your just disappearing would likely cause more questions to be asked than would be helpful to the church and the pastor. Also it looks to me like you aren't leaving at the end of a term but at the beginning of a new calendar year. That will cause talk too.

Some statement from you at least to the board may indeed be helpful.
 
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BryanW92

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GraceSeeker has a good point that as the chair of the Church Council your just disappearing would likely cause more questions to be asked than would be helpful to the church and the pastor. Also it looks to me like you aren't leaving at the end of a term but at the beginning of a new calendar year. That will cause talk too.

Some statement from you at least to the board may indeed be helpful.

This is the beginning of the third year of my term. In PMs, GS was able to talk me down from the ledge and I am going to wait until the March council meeting. I'll let the pastor know in advance, of course. So, if he'd rather that I not make an announcement, I'll respect his wishes.
 
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Maid Marie

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How do you pastors do it?

I'm leaving my church in the next couple of weeks. I need to get out of there for my own spiritual health, but I have so many good friends that I'll be leaving behind.

I've heard that when clergy leaves a church, you aren't allowed to initiate contact with anyone in the old congregation for a year. Do you feel like you're abandoning friends, or is it really just a matter of moving on to a new job?

Since I've never been divorced before, this is probably the hardest thing I've ever had to do.

Nazarenes use a call system but I wish we'd have one like the UMC. As someone pointed out, it means that the congregation would rely less on the pastor and more on something else [hopefully God].

As one who moved as a pastor last Sept, it was really hard for me for many reasons. I keep praying that God will send me new friends soon. The one good friend I've made has COPD bad and may not make it to May. So that is rather depressing on many levels.

Regarding your move, like others have said, I would give an explanation of some sort. To the pastor, you can give details but to others you'd need to make more general details. I think you should tell your pastor more details so that if there was something that was actually wrong, that person could have a chance to make changes [not saying that the pastor would]. By telling others you can give them a chance to find your replacement.
 
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BryanW92

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By telling others you can give them a chance to find your replacement.

When I said that I wanted to slip away, I meant that I would tell the pastor and he could convene the Nominations Committee to find a replacement. One of my reasons for wanting to quit next Monday was so they'd have 3 weeks to find a replacement before next month's council meeting.

I wasn't just going to stop coming to church.
 
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Maid Marie

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When I said that I wanted to slip away, I meant that I would tell the pastor and he could convene the Nominations Committee to find a replacement. One of my reasons for wanting to quit next Monday was so they'd have 3 weeks to find a replacement before next month's council meeting.

I wasn't just going to stop coming to church.

Gotcha
 
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