Changes and the effects on the FSG's...

[reddogs]

For reasons directly relating to the move of the Progressive SDA subforum we need to change the FSG's, and I also want to get input on the Debate/Discussion subforum. This is not the official FSG discussion as the Admins will decide that, but I want member input now rather than later as things can happen quickly.


We can look at doing the following:



1) Consolidating the Debate/Discussion subforum into the Traditional SDA subforum but then it is limited to debate among those Seventh-day Adventists who agree with all 28 Fundamental Beliefs and it may keep out some who may want to discuss it in a loving Christian way, althought non-members may still post in fellowship. Also taking out Progressive SDA subforum FSG.

2) Change the Debate/Discussion subforum to allow only members to debate, all others just posting in fellowship. Also taking out Progressive SDA subforum FSG.

3) Leave everything as it is, just taking out Progressive SDA subforum FSG.


These are just some ideas, and I know Doc, Daryl and the other mods may have more, as well as the rest of you....


Here is how it is currently..
****************************************************


FSGs: Forum-specific guidelines for the Seventh-Day Adventist Forum

These guidelines do not replace the site-wide rules, but rather clarify the rule "Congregational Forums wishing to remain safe havens may choose to limit debate to members of their own denomination, insist that all posts conform to their creed etc." ​

Therefore, posters in this forum and its subforums must post in conformance with all of the following:​

• The site-wide rules
• The congregation-wide guidelines
• These forum-specific guidelines (FSGs)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------​

Forum-Specific Guidelines for the Seventh-Day Adventist Forum​

The Congregation-Wide Guidelines apply to this forum. They outline the basic membership and debate guidelines for this forum. Additional guidelines are explained below.​

Additional guidelines on debate:​

• The main SDA forum does not allow any debate. Adventist members may give answers to questions asked, in accordance with official church statements and the 28 Fundamental Beliefs. Questions that are likely to lead to debate should be asked in the Debate/Discussion subforum.

• The Debate/Discussion subforum allows debate by both members and non-members. Debate against the 28 fundamental beliefs is allowed, but is expected to be done respectfully, and with supporting evidence. Those inquiring about general Adventist beliefs will be directed to the main SDA forum.

• The Traditional SDA subforum is limited to debate among those Seventh-day Adventists who agree with all 28 Fundamental Beliefs. Non-members may only post in fellowship.

• The Progressive SDA subforum is limited to debate among those Seventh-day Adventists who do not agree with all 28 Fundamental Beliefs. Non-members may only post in fellowship.

• The New Adventist/Bible Study sub-forum does not allow any debate. Only designated teachers may start or lead Bible study threads. Designated teachers must be members in good standing of the Seventh-day Adventist Church for at least one year, must have an application on file, and sign in monthly at the sign-in thread within the forum. Any teacher violating any of the rules of this sub-forum will lose their teacher status, and their study thread will be closed. Bible studies can deal with any subject that is in harmony with Scripture. Studies and their discussions must be in agreement with the 28 Fundamental Beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist church.

"A Special Message from your Moderators..."

Sabbath is our time with God. In addition to resting and worship, the Sabbath is reserved for a quiet time of fellowship and Bible study for us.​

Therefore during this time period, we kindly request that fellowship replace debate, to allow others to observe the Sabbath according to their beliefs. You may not see us working reports during this time (unless it's an emergency), and while we will still be here for you, we encourage

​

members to rest and relax with us. ​

Please take into consideration the different time zones as well, and respect that even though your Sabbath may be over, others may still be celebrating theirs.​

 

[TrustAndObey]

Sorry Red, I didn't see this thread when I started the poll.

I would like to suggest that we merge D&D and the Trad section together and operate under the Congregation-wide and Site-wide guidelines.

That would still allow for loving Christian questioning, just not debating, teaching, or harassing!

 

[FreeinChrist]

Having gone through changes in the Baptist forum, I recommend having specific guidelines.

The Congregational guidelines have:
"Only those who agree with a congregational forum’s Statement of Faith may post as members of that forum. Statements of Faith are found in the congregational forum’s forum-specific guidelines (FSGs), found at the top of each specific forum."


You need a FSG that includes a Statement of Faith for this forum to define membership - it can be as simple as referring to the 28 Fundamental beliefs.

Some forums have "Ask a ____" maybe that would be good here.

 

[reddogs]

Well, I guess my words "things can happen quickly" turned out to be more true than even I had imagined, and the Admins decided to pick the consolidation option:

1) Consolidating the Debate/Discussion subforum into the Traditional SDA subforum but then it is limited to debate among those Seventh-day Adventists who agree with all 28 Fundamental Beliefs and it may keep out some who may want to discuss it in a loving Christian way, althought non-members may still post in fellowship.

Also the Main Forum andNew Adventist/Bible Study were consolidated so everything is together and for the moment the forum is named

Traditional Adventists
The forum for Adventist members

 

[reddogs]

Having gone through changes in the Baptist forum, I recommend having specific guidelines.

The Congregational guidelines have:
"Only those who agree with a congregational forum’s Statement of Faith may post as members of that forum. Statements of Faith are found in the congregational forum’s forum-specific guidelines (FSGs), found at the top of each specific forum."


You need a FSG that includes a Statement of Faith for this forum to define membership - it can be as simple as referring to the 28 Fundamental beliefs.

Some forums have "Ask a ____" maybe that would be good here.

Looks like we have to get going on the changes to the FSG right away, thanks for the input FreeinChrist.

 

[TrustAndObey]

The FSGs have to include our Fundamental Beliefs.

DL wants to include that people that are studying to join our church should be allowed to debate, as long as it is in a civil, Christian way.

Is it possible to have something like FreeinChrist suggested (like an "Ask an Adventist" thread or forum), and if the person is genuinely searching but wants more answers, we can continue past just a fellowship post in that forum? Not necessarily debate....just deeper discussion?

I hope that made sense. I just got up.

 

[TrustAndObey]

One thing I'm noticing is that we have way too many stickies! It seems to take a while to scroll down to the "meat" of the forum.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Wait...before we put a lot of effort into this, do we have confirmation that we will have a say it what our FSGs say? The last input I saw about this said we weren't in the Wiki era anymore and we pretty much have to go with what our Admin say.

 

[honorthesabbath]

I would like to find out which admins are working the decisions for this forum. Could someone give us a list of their names please.

 

[honorthesabbath]

If we get a chance to have a say in this forum, then I would like to see us start with a clean slate. IOW, I would like to dump the entire section of the old D&D sub-forum. There are far too many negative threads in that area and it serves no purpose for our hopes for a good clean forum.

Negative thoughts are negative thoughts be they spoken or typed. Let's get rid of everything that have caused discord here.

 

[synger]

Re-posting here what I posted in the poll thread:

Let me try to clarify the FSG issue, at least.

The Congregation-wide guidelines outline that in the majority of congregational forums, one must be considered a "member" of that denomination in order to debate in their forum. It sets the PROCESS framework for allowing congregational forums to be "safe havens." In light of that, it also explains, in general terms, what "debate" means for most of these forums.

The forum-specific guidelines should contain the Statement of Faith for your forum... what doctrines make you distinctively Traditional Adventists. This is so that someone coming in and reading your SoF can say "I belong here, I'm a member of this forum, and thus I can debate" or can say "I disagree with this SoF, I am a guest, and I may not debate"

In the matter of debate, you have a number of options.

• No FSG: You may opt to have no forum-specific guidelines at all. There are a handful of congregations who do not. For them, debate is not a big issue, nor is membership. If you do not need the general protections of the Congregation-wide guidelines (which, as I said, set up the process framework that "only members can debate" and "what is debate"), then you may opt not to have FSGs at all. This would basically make your forum an open forum, with no "membership" and no restrictions on debate.

• FSG, with no debate: This is the default. If your FSGs contain only your Statement of Faith, then your forum will be protected by the Congregation-wide guidelines as it is written -- only those who agree with your SoF will be considered members, and only they can debate. Visitors will be limited to asking questions and posting fellowship posts. Most of the congregational forums have this model.

• FSG, with limited debate: This is where you can add specifics to the "Additional Guidelines on Debate" section of the FSGs. Some forums allow limited debate by non-members, and their FSG outlines what that means. Some forums allow debate by non-members in a special debate subforum. Some forums allow debate, but not about certain topics.

The admins are not writing your Statement of Faith. Nor are we even saying that you must have FSGs for your forum.

What we are saying is that if you wish to use FSGs to protect your forum from non-members debating, this is the process and structure you need to use.

If you wish to revisit your FSGs, now that this structure change has taken place, I would be happy to open a discussion thread for it in the Congregational Staff area (to try to keep policy discussions from cluttering up your forum).

 

[TrustAndObey]

Oh, I say we do limited debate! I think that would allow people to come in and ask questions, and even disagree, but they must be respectful about it, and an overabundance of "questions" is pretty see-through anyway.

 

[synger]

Since it seems obvious to me that we will indeed need to revisit your FSGs, I've taken the liberty of starting a discussion thread specifically for your FSGs. Please move the discussion there, so we can keep things tidy here in your forum.


(Gee, I sound like the butler in the movie Clue. *sighs*)

 

[VictorC]

Having gone through changes in the Baptist forum, I recommend having specific guidelines.

The Congregational guidelines have:
"Only those who agree with a congregational forum’s Statement of Faith may post as members of that forum. Statements of Faith are found in the congregational forum’s forum-specific guidelines (FSGs), found at the top of each specific forum."


You need a FSG that includes a Statement of Faith for this forum to define membership - it can be as simple as referring to the 28 Fundamental beliefs.

Some forums have "Ask a ____" maybe that would be good here.

Well, I guess my words "things can happen quickly" turned out to be more true than even I had imagined, and the Admins decided to pick the consolidation option:

1) Consolidating the Debate/Discussion subforum into the Traditional SDA subforum but then it is limited to debate among those Seventh-day Adventists who agree with all 28 Fundamental Beliefs and it may keep out some who may want to discuss it in a loving Christian way, althought non-members may still post in fellowship.

Also the Main Forum andNew Adventist/Bible Study were consolidated so everything is together and for the moment the forum is named

Traditional Adventists
The forum for Adventist members

Regarding your observation:
"it may keep out some who may want to discuss it in a loving Christian way, althought non-members may still post in fellowship" opined by reddogs.

That would be today's understatement.
There is no "maybe" about the shut door I believe is resurrected by this new policy, that I mentioned on another thread.

CF's organization is different from other forums I have become familiar with, but I briefly searched for other groups such as the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, and didn't find their presence represented in CF. The standard opinion would be that these aren't Christian organs, but that opinion isn't shared by their own membership. Their presence on a forum has the benefit of calling their belief system into question and reading the answers they provide, so that we can see their reasoning revealed as well as give them exposure to those that aren't going to accept their extra-Biblical beliefs. If you think of the conclusion the FSG rules would close their forum to only like-minded "fellowship", you can see right away that dialog leading to joint education wouldn't be possible.

Lo and behold, there is no longer an area titled "seventh-day Adventist" on CF. They have split into what I would call full-blown Adventists, diverse from half-hearted Adventists (and no harm is intended to progressives who aren't sold on Ellen White's purported authority).

The new rules would bring apologetic dialog to an end.
Attendees on the CF forum would no longer be able to question the heterodox beliefs of sects such as Roman Catholics and seventh-day Adventists.

It would seem to me that CF does not exist for the venue of apologetics and dialog that would lead those of His Body into the common faith (Titus 1:4).

Perhaps FreeinChrist would be kind enough to elucidate on the purpose CF exists, and explain this policy of "group membership only" within individual forums. I am new here, but I have come across others who testify to the serious dialog they have engaged in (Tall73 and his wife Sophia7 are foremost in my mind). Clarify this change from the previous manner CF was organized that would alienate pastors and laity that have serious concerns that they have to share and inquire on.

In other words, I believe the moderation representatives should sell me on the value of this forum.

Victor

 

[tall73]

Victor,

A. There is a theology section, and you can debate there with folks from all different faiths on various aspects of theology:

http://christianforums.com/f79-theology.html

B. There is an unorthodox theology section within the theology section where they discuss non-Nicene faiths:

http://christianforums.com/f130-unorthodox-theology.html

C. The congregational areas are more for fellowship, except in cases when they expressly allow debate. The SDA section for a long time did not allow debate. In fact none of the congregational forums did initially as it was not an option. Then they opened it up to allow debate if a congregational forum wanted to, and the Adventist forum allowed it for a time. Now it appears it will not allow it again. But there are still debate areas in CF.

 

[VictorC]

Victor,

A. There is a theology section, and you can debate there with folks from all different faiths on various aspects of theology:

http://christianforums.com/f79-theology.html

B. There is an unorthodox theology section within the theology section where they discuss non-Nicene faiths:

http://christianforums.com/f130-unorthodox-theology.html

C. The congregational areas are more for fellowship, except in cases when they expressly allow debate. The SDA section for a long time did not allow debate. In fact none of the congregational forums did initially as it was not an option. Then they opened it up to allow debate if a congregational forum wanted to, and the Adventist forum allowed it for a time. Now it appears it will not allow it again. But there are still debate areas in CF.

Okay, I can look these over later when I have a bit more time (I'm at work, and add comments as I pass a computer).
I wonder what dialog among those who don't tolerate alternate views would be like, however.
My guess is that it would be summed up as "boring".

Thanks, Tall.
Victor

 

[Sophia7]

Okay, I can look these over later when I have a bit more time (I'm at work, and add comments as I pass a computer).
I wonder what dialog among those who don't tolerate alternate views would be like, however.
My guess is that it would be summed up as "boring".

Thanks, Tall.
Victor

Most likely, debate will be allowed in the new Progressive/Moderate/Former Adventist forum as well.

 

[VictorC]

Most likely, debate will be allowed in the new Progressive/Moderate/Former Adventist forum as well.

My guess is that "debate" within that venue would consist of joint encouragement rather than variance, since the audience there would be uniform concerning their transition from the 28 fundies already.