Change Names of Lutheran Sub subs

[SPALATIN]

I propose we change the names of the Lutheran Sub-forums as well. The ones we have now are along synodical lines whereas we could name them along the lines of Confessional Subscription. I am instituting a poll that will for the most part determine if a change is desired or needed.

 

[C.F.W. Walther]

I voted this.
Change the names, but not as #2 suggests, I'll explain below.

Even within the confessional churches there are descrepencies and differances. Narrowing it down to what Scott suggested would narrow it down too much and make it more divisive. We don't need MORE problems so just leave it confessional and whatever else, like liberal.

 

[C.F.W. Walther]

I voted this.
Change the names, but not as #2 suggests, I'll explain below.

Even within the confessional churches there are descrepencies and differances. Narrowing it down to what Scott suggested would narrow it down too much and make it more divisive. We don't need MORE problems so just leave it confessional and whatever else, like liberal.

 

[Protoevangel]

I voted this.
Change the names, but not as #2 suggests, I'll explain below.

Even within the confessional churches there are descrepencies and differances. Narrowing it down to what Scott suggested would narrow it down too much and make it more divisive. We don't need MORE problems so just leave it confessional and whatever else, like liberal.

Quia / Quatenus would be divisive, but Confessional / Liberal wouldn't?

 

[KEPLER]

I chose "Quia / Quatenus". Quatenus is a legitimate category, and those who hold it knowingly hold it. The description is not an epithet.

Using "Confessional / Liberal" (even though I agree that it is true) is nevertheless an act of labelling (i.e., name calling), and is no better than a "quatenus" Lutheran wanting the categories to be "Rigid (quia) / Loving (quatenus)". Neither is useful. Quia and quatenus, however, are useful, and nobody can complain that they are being "labelled".

Kepler

 

[MagnusJ]

As a confused swedish lutherian, what exactly does Quia & Quatenus mean?

 

[Protoevangel]

Quia - "Because" (We believe what is taught in the Book of Concord *Because* it is an accurate representation of Holy Scripture.)

Quatenus - "Insofar as" (We believe what is taught in the Book of Concord *Insofar as* it is an accurate representation of Holy Scripture.)

 

[C.F.W. Walther]

Quia - "Because" (We believe what is taught in the Book of Concord *Because* it is an accurate representation of Holy Scripture.)

Quatenus - "Insofar as" (We believe what is taught in the Book of Concord *Insofar as* it is an accurate representation of Holy Scripture.)

See DAN--- you just had to explaing it AGAIN. Don't guys get it. Some of us don't care about "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" or what the "Q's" are. Just make the forums so that the average lutheran that comes in here (or anybody) don't let their jaws drop because they don't understand greek, hebrew, aramaic or latin and could care less about those big words we've "made up' the last 500 years.

I'd rather see controversy than "Q's"!!!

 

[Protoevangel]

See DAN--- you just had to explaing it AGAIN. Don't guys get it. Some of us don't care about "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" or what the "Q's" are. Just make the forums so that the average lutheran that comes in here (or anybody) don't let their jaws drop because they don't understand greek, hebrew, aramaic or latin and could care less about those big words we've "made up' the last 500 years.

I'd rather see controversy than "Q's"!!!

Admitedly, there are some few people who insist on trying to never learn anything... But they are an extremely rare lot. What exactly is the problem with having an explanation along with the names?...

 

[KEPLER]

Rad,

With all due respect...and I do respect your opinion...You've just taken the first step towards liberalism. "Dumbing down" theology is exactly what got Lutheranism to this point in the first place. Using precise words is what keeps theology sharp. Using loose words makes theology sloppy.

Personally, I don't mind explaining things until the cows come home. As long as people are interested in Lutheran Theology, I'm thrilled.

K

 

[C.F.W. Walther]

Admitedly, there are some few people who insist on trying to never learn anything... But they are an extremely rare lot. What exactly is the problem with having an explanation along with the names?...

People who insist on never learning anything don't come to forums like this. THey sit at home and get mind washed with TV and wile away the hours swigging beer and talking about "events" and not "ideas".

There is nothing wrong with an explanation going with and name and that is not the subject we are talking about. Don't change pews in the middle of the service.
We are talking about generating all the "pastor speak" so only a few can participate. Stop in at the RC forum sometime and look at the HUGE amount of "speak" they generate. THey can't figure it out so they just follow it because it sounds edjumacated. Heck we don't know what the're talking about half the time either and we run a close second on the "jargon"

 

[LutherNut]

See DAN--- you just had to explaing it AGAIN. Don't guys get it. Some of us don't care about "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" or what the "Q's" are. Just make the forums so that the average lutheran that comes in here (or anybody) don't let their jaws drop because they don't understand greek, hebrew, aramaic or latin and could care less about those big words we've "made up' the last 500 years.

I'd rather see controversy than "Q's"!!!

I think the sub forums are fine just the way they are. The majority of the rift bewteen the LCMS/WELS and the ELCA has more to do with doctrine and practice than confessionsal subscription (although subscription is one of the areas of debate).

Why not further divide them into "open vs. close communion", "men vs. women pastors", "strict adherence to Real Presence vs. personal choice concerning Real Presence"... These and other issues are also dividing lines as well, and the lines are not so clearly defined among members of each synod/body.

I vote to leave them as they are.


Jay

 

[KEPLER]

People who insist on never learning anything don't come to forums like this. THey sit at home and get mind washed with TV and wile away the hours swigging beer and talking about "events" and not "ideas".

There is nothing wrong with an explanation going with and name and that is not the subject we are talking about. Don't change pews in the middle of the service.
We are talking about generating all the "pastor speak" so only a few can participate. Stop in at the RC forum sometime and look at the HUGE amount of "speak" they generate. THey can't figure it out so they just follow it because it sounds edjumacated. Heck we don't know what the're talking about half the time either and we run a close second on the "jargon"

Edjumucated?? Now we have to learn "Pastor Speak" AND "South Park Speak"??? I can't keep up....

 

[C.F.W. Walther]

Rad,

With all due respect...and I do respect your opinion...You've just taken the first step towards liberalism. "Dumbing down" theology is exactly what got Lutheranism to this point in the first place. Using precise words is what keeps theology sharp. Using loose words makes theology sloppy.

Personally, I don't mind explaining things until the cows come home. As long as people are interested in Lutheran Theology, I'm thrilled.

K

Nope the dumbing down was fostered by the synod and the pastors so they could have control over the parishoners. THey set themselves apart from us with all this "pastor speak" so that the dumbing down came from people finally sayin "Go ask pastor or synod, I don't know anything about it" Only because of laymen like my self are we trying to bridge the gap between the two factions but theologians pontificating and condecention does not foster good relations. Makes things look unctious and arrogant.

Liberalism has nothing to do with it. Ministers not "equipping the saints" was part of the dumbing down. Pastors taking on more and more responsibiliteis of the elders. Mega Lutheran churches having the pastor as CEO and Director have made the dumbing esculate to a near landslide. Elders are only "yes men" now and the parishoners are "advised" of what is going on once a year. It's made a bigger an bigger gulf over the years.

Kepler----I've respected and read MANY of you statements over the last 6 months but I never though you would allude to me being liberal.

 

[C.F.W. Walther]

Edjumucated?? Now we have to learn "Pastor Speak" AND "South Park Speak"??? I can't keep up....

Thought you guys would like that. THat's from the dumbing down section LOL

 

[MagnusJ]

Quia - "Because" (We believe what is taught in the Book of Concord *Because* it is an accurate representation of Holy Scripture.)

Quatenus - "Insofar as" (We believe what is taught in the Book of Concord *Insofar as* it is an accurate representation of Holy Scripture.)

Thanks (slightly less confused )

 

[SPALATIN]

I think the sub forums are fine just the way they are. The majority of the rift bewteen the LCMS/WELS and the ELCA has more to do with doctrine and practice than confessionsal subscription (although subscription is one of the areas of debate).

Why not further divide them into "open vs. close communion", "men vs. women pastors", "strict adherence to Real Presence vs. personal choice concerning Real Presence"... These and other issues are also dividing lines as well, and the lines are not so clearly defined among members of each synod/body.

I vote to leave them as they are.


Jay

Jay,

The reason I had for suggesting a change in the subforums of TC-L is because people like Danhead who have a Quia subscription would come to that forum and feel free to post without as much censorship because he is still considered ELCA. Just because some people are in the ELCA does not mean that they all have the same subscription to the confessions. I was trying to get away from synodical affiliation and get more to "what do you really believe?"

Subscription does that. If we need to we could call one "Because" subscription and the other "Insofaras" subscription. I don't want to be guilty of "pastorspeak" when I haven't even got the credentials.

 

[RedneckAnglican]

I guess that "Hyper-Libs" and "Attila the Huns" are out of the question?...

 

[ctobola]

Rad,
...snip...
Personally, I don't mind explaining things until the cows come home. As long as people are interested in Lutheran Theology, I'm thrilled.
K

Your point is well-taken; but it presumes that we will have the opportunity to explain.

The Internet is a medium that lends itself to segmented ideas. People flip through and if the heading doesn't catch their attention, they move along. That might not be the ideal situation, but it's certainly the reality that we have to deal with.

In Christ,

-Cloy

 

[KEPLER]

Nope the dumbing down was fostered by the synod and the pastors so they could have control over the parishoners. THey set themselves apart from us with all this "pastor speak" so that the dumbing down came from people finally sayin "Go ask pastor or synod, I don't know anything about it" Only because of laymen like my self are we trying to bridge the gap between the two factions but theologians pontificating and condecention does not foster good relations. Makes things look unctious and arrogant.

Liberalism has nothing to do with it. Ministers not "equipping the saints" was part of the dumbing down. Pastors taking on more and more responsibiliteis of the elders. Mega Lutheran churches having the pastor as CEO and Director have made the dumbing esculate to a near landslide. Elders are only "yes men" now and the parishoners are "advised" of what is going on once a year. It's made a bigger an bigger gulf over the years.

Kepler----I've respected and read MANY of you statements over the last 6 months but I never though you would allude to me being liberal.

Rad,

I guess I tend to look at the situation and see something a bit different... In the 60s, 70s and 80s, Congregations were looking around at other denominations seeing how much "fun" they were having at "Church". So, they started calling Pastors and DCEs who would do their bidding and make church "fun" and "relevant", or in some cases, kicking out pastors who toed the confessional line.

I guess a lot of this is a "chicken or the egg" kind of situation....but I do believe that abandoning the classical Lutheran vocabulary is not the answer. I think that's just another way of making church "relevant".

And, hey, just cuz you're a closet liberal doesn't mean I don't love ya, man! (just kdding!)

K