change and stability

[mac8]

Searching discussions over on another board (monastic) give rise to the question: how do we determine and agree together as a church congregation or denomination on what elements of our life - inner spirituality and its outer expression in mission and how we 'do'church should be liable to change and which should remain stable?

Beneath this lies two assumptions - one is the obvioius need for the church to be able to adapt to changing context in order to fulfil its mission - which can mean changing just about anything and everything in TSA from uniforms, flag, our TSA ranks, music styles , how we do prayer together, how we do sermons, what kind of small groups, whether we expect people to come to us, whether we have buildings or not, how we approach evangelism, whether mission/social outreach should be professionally done and centrally organised and funded or local and relationship based, etc. etc.

The second is the teaching of St Benedict who pointed out that stability and rootedness are essential for us to flourish and grow in holiness and spiritual maturity. We see what happens when this is lacking in churches that try to put on programmes when there is such rapid turnover of members it is very difficult to find people to create and maintain new ministries, and do relationship evangelism where there are virtually no stable relationships in a neighbourhood churning with constant change.

Most of us in the group agreed that those 'saints' we've known in our lives have a high degree of stability, either in location or vocation or both, in family life, in wider relationships etc, in attachment to one denomination (in the main). So we sense the truth of what Benedict was teaching.

But even Benedict realised that continuity and change are both essential. I know as a mediator change often triggers conflict. So I wonder how we can better understand what can change and what should not.

Thoughts?

Blessings
Mac

 

[BoazB]

Now there is a scary question. Usually I would make no comment, not say a word . I hate confrontation (my personality is INFJ) and so have decided to stay out of it all. Usually people get too excitted about change abd so take each other apart when change is discussed. However, with the safety of annonymity, I will give a few observations I have made on my side of the ocean. I will try and give context to each of these. Here goes:

TSA in South Africa differs in regard to change in accordance to the area, sub-culture in the area, and resources concerned.

Parts of the territory are an integral mix of goodwill/social centre and corps (this is in the more anglo-saxon areas). The corps relies HEAVILY on the social centre folk, who although the remember when the Army had bands with enough instruments to go caroling. But other than that, they have very little idea of what is Army. In these areas, the Junior soldier to Senior soldier leap has not been made, and YP bandsmen just dissappear. In some cases, Senior Bandsmen have not led a holy life, and our social service clients notice it. They then don't join (usual: "If that is a Christian then I don't want to join") I think in these cases, chnages are not introduced, but basically just happen, and the rest is a response to survive.

I have seen before when an officer tried to council a bandsman about some issue in his life (there were many other issues, believe) so he voted with his feet. If the officer plays cornet, the band lives on. If note, pray that there is a piano.

It's a terrible choice - a band of bandsmen that is rude to the congregation, or a piano. Some corps in South Africa make use of CD's with Army bands to keep the flag flying. In one case, officer would try and play the lone cornet, line out the verses, give the announcements and then preach as well. Panting the verse out is more like it.

In the more built up cities, "implemented/instituted" change is a privilege that we don't have. We jsut live from day to day.

In the black areas, pressures are being felt like never before, and Westernisation in a Hollywood lifestyle is putting servere pressure. At the moment officers are required to have a Matric (O level I think - but basically last year of school to a certain mark.) As the move from blue collar to white collar is made, will we have "up-and- outs." Change for them may be necessary to survive - yet we need to keep serving the poor.

We can't leave anybody behind, but will everybody still be on board. Heartbreaking.

On another point, soldiers were always encouraged to marry other soldiers. That makes the gene-pool very small. So, if you don't want to marry family and have your kids with eyes that look in both directions, you have to marry outside. Therein comes an Army culture challenge, that most people seemed to have rather left the Army, then join. The Army has drastically shrunk because of that.

I hope you don't find this depressing.
Just a few thoughts.

 

[mac8]

What a difficult situation, and the church generally in South Africa must be facing many difficult issues.

Here I am looking at my own children and wondering helplessly how to pursuade them their local corps is a viable community to be part of when we seem to have nobody between the ages of 12 and 45.

I had completely despaired when I heard of so many groups of teens and twenties out planting their own congregations for their own age group. I mean what kind of community is that, limited to one generation? Who would want that?

But then I started listening to the experience of some of the teens who have tried to survive in congregations where the older people do not accept them, and they have had such a miserable time I can understand why they move on. We reap what we sow, and the officers can do everything possible to pursuade older people to tolerate teens in the congregation but if people won't welcome its hopeless. I've just had a minister's husband (not TSA) tell me quite happily he has left church X to go to church Y 'because some teenagers came in and I don't like that sort of church'. This guy has been through Bible college and still doesn't get it.....

Blessings,
Mac/Eleanor n/TSSF

 

[Abiel]

scary how we kill God's church.

What a millstone round our neck.

 

[BoazB]

There are pockets of people who are absolutely resistant to change. They say that they prefer the Army, but if you look at what they do, it is not Army at all, but a HOMEBREW thing. It was interesting to see one such corps given the chance to choose their own songs. The opening song was a Mercy Seat special, (instead of a rousing one as I remember in the days of my youth )

None of the people wore uniform (not a train smash for me - LIVING for me is vital), but all loved to be Army - whatever that was. The organist had refused with a visiting officer to play any Gowans and Larsson. No local officers, no officers, no sunday school teachers. It was a congregation where church was left for women and children, and one would send the children to ask the Corps officer (when there was one) for bread because the money had been spent on boose.

Another coprs had the following scenario - corps members came from a mother corps that had fights within. The new corps then had fights either between factioning families, or if no fighting, would gain up against the officer. To date the corps is basically controlled by one family, except for a few others. New officers are expected to raise the corps to new heights. There is an area near, but from another culture group who wonder if they are welcome.

The kids are all cousins of each other, and have since left (probably so as they can marry outside the family!! which I can sympathise) ...And the attitude to change... Our officer is no good because he doesn't listen to what we tell him to do. We want it Army (ie not like the rest of the Army and the church in genral has become, or like THQ.)

What should an officer there do? (Some sit and wait for their next appointment. One worked well with them, but at a time thet the Army had a lot of members in the area. The corps had a 50% casualty rate of officers. Personally I think it is a case of adapt or die, and has nothing to do with the officer. I'm comfortable in both traditional and very contemporary corps, and hybrids. Age gaps in teens and youth are not unusual, challenges are huge. The Army started in revival, and I think we need to pray for revival. Fighting with people who don't want to change/innovation or with people who don't want to do anything is pointless.

 

[mac8]

Hmm I'm passionate about integrating change preparedness and understanding of our need for stability and continuity into discipleship/formation work, and into all levels of leader training. One area we failed in presumably was to train and equip lay leaders to help their communities handle change, and understand the need for it. I don't think army v. not army is a real issue - I mean there are primitive salvationist corps on fire for God and growing, and I see no reason why that can't work. But a stagnant church whether community church or traditional SA is a disaster. Lay leaders - and all members - need to recognise and understand stagnation. But we also need to understand people's needs for stability, and some things can helpfully not change for some corps.

We are in tension - between a world in churning change that stresses everyone out including our children and teens, and a mission context which demands we adapt our methods. To me it is about getting the balance right. I don't go with either/or.

I think we also need to provide teens and twenties with a spiritual nourishment and experience which they can return to throughout their changing lives. So it is worth asking even while we write necessary new music and revamp our technology, what it is we are creating together which will provide anchor points for their future decades of Christian life. When they come to their grandchildren's dedications, will the flag (or some other symbol) have associations for them that help them to have that vital sense of 'place' in a caring, energised, compassionate and creative church community? I feel I am surrounded by people who lack a sense of 'place', of belonging, of community and of stabilty in their faith experience.

To me a sense of timelessness in the church, even of the mystery in faith, is important, whether it is silence and a candle flame, a mercy seat, a flag, a eucharist, or whatever. But stagnation is absolutely out, both inner and in mission and community transformation and growth? Does that make sense?
Maybe its my age! Around 50 is supposed to be one of the more change-resistent stages of life!

Blessings
Eleanor n/TSSF

 

[BoazB]

I think that one shouldn't get too depressed about the "working locally" thing. We underestimate the Lord, if we think He will only work in a package from THQ. (Not aimed at THQ. All you THQ guys, I love you )

In South Africa, some of our best "things", (As in "new things") happened without DHQ, THQ or officers or soldiers being aware. Most certainly the verse that comes to mind is, "Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit."

New work has started... where we never planned. One corps cahnged from a handfull to a thriving work... when?, When THQ said they could no longer send officers there. (Officers had only been sent previously because an extremely wealthy early member had passed away and left a legacy in the form of an eternal tithe.) There were one or two people, the officer (Usually retired) Now it is a bustling Sunday School etc.

From the little that I have shared, working locally does not worry me. We live in a day and age when that is possible. In fact most people who come to The Salvation Army know that there is a general or THQ or "Whatever" or could be bothered if they knew. Working far from THQ is WONDERFUL. (Then it is just you and Him )

Be encouraged. That is my aim. The guys up there have some strange ways, and sometimes don't know how much we need encouragement, or how to encourage us. For some it was ages since they were on "The Floor" Those on ground level know what's what... But it is difficult and need encouragement. So let's make encouaragement a HUGE priority.

 

[mac8]

I agree absolutely. It's incredibly important to have the vision for what can be and hold it tight.

I think of it as something I had to look after once in a museum where I was on the staff. It was a huge lump of aquamarine. No matter which way you looked at it it was incredibly beautiful, fascinating, deep, translucent, and unique. No two angles were the same. The vision I try to hold of transformed community, whether we visualise it as a fighting unit or a fellowship of believers (deep down the same thing) it has to be a transformed group as well as a group of transformed individuals, and then we can fulfil our mission.

I've just spent all morning trying to untangle a church conflict, it has all the usual disgusting features of church conflict - judgementalism, narrow mindedness, b-mindedness, unkind behaviour, etc etc, and there is someone out there getting hurt right as I watch. I got so angry I took it out on the garden ripping the weeds up! *laughter* But this is what happens if we spend time getting het up over the wrong things. There's crazy stuff out there, and most of it hinges on basic church health issues. One is not being able to handle change, and hanging onto the wrong kinds of stability and rootedness, and not allowing for the Holy Spirit to simply create something 'new' within the church. We should be out celebrating the creativity of God in the church, not trying to wrestle it to the floor and get it into cuffs.

Warmest blessings
Eleanor n/TSSF

 

[Abiel]

until individuals are committed to trust and honesty, 'twill be ever thus

 

[SallyAnn]

we need to pray , pray, pray and let God move.
Sometimes He will move us into doing things that we never envisioned.
We must never forget to Thank Him when He answers our prayers and also continue in prayer. Especially when we have people in our midst who like to put a wedge between others. My Corps has gone through a time of people leaving because they didn't like the officers we had (a couple of years ago). The officers we have got now are trying their hardest to get things right again.

 

[SallyAnn]

The officers we have got now are trying their hardest to get things right again.

And they will. Because I have not seen anyone rely on God so much. We already have a few things started since their arrival.

 

[SDA14]

ok