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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Chance and evolution
- Thread starter Michali
- Start date
Mechanical Bliss
Secrecy and accountability cannot co-exist.
In other words you cannot back up your statements.obediah001 said:
Go elsewhere, troll.
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Mechanical Bliss
Secrecy and accountability cannot co-exist.
Interesting because the existence of extensive salt deposits falsify a young earth.
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JM: Specifically, which sediments mark the onset, the peak and the post flood sequence. Show me the globally correlatable sequence. If you do, you will be the VERY first creationist TO EVER do this. Even folks at ICR and AIG admit they have no idea where the evidence is. Are you willing to put your neck on the line. Give me the globally correlatable sequence of strata on all continents that mark the beginning, the peak and the end of the flood. Your silence on this matter will join the silence of your young earth brethren.obediah001 said:
Cheers
Joe Meert
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There will be no single level layer to identify as the base or first for the flood as it was a chaotic sdestructive catastrophe which errupted allover the earth. to think it was uniform event is silly. look at all the signs of catastrophe upon & under the earth.
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J
Jet Black
Guest
well we can say it is above all the trace fossils right, since there is no way that those kinds of fossils, such as nests and footprints and so on could have survived "chaotic destructive catastrophe which errupted allover the earth"
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lucaspa
Legend
I don't think you can give a refutation. I haven't found one.gnarly love said:
Where have you seen any "hatred of God" here?
In no particular order they are:
1. No Boundary. In this one the universe is finite but unbounded and there is no creation. The universe simply IS.
2. Logical and mathematical necessity. The equations that describe the universe are so powerful that they made a universe for them to describe.
3. God
4. Quantum fluctuation. In this one the universe -- matter/energy/spacetime are an uncaused quantum fluctuation. One big virtual particle if you will. There is no net energy in the universe and String Theory says that spacetime itself can be a quantum fluctuation.
5. Ekpyrotic. A variation of QF above. In this one there are two 11 dimension quantum membranes, Our 4 D universe results from a collision of these two 'branes. When the branes collide again our universe will be wiped out and a new one begun. This can happen infinitely. You don't actually get a Big Bang as in a point singularity, but rather a Big Splat. This one can be tested eventually because the gravity waves generated by the Splat will be different from gravity waves generated by the BB.
This is a classic case of multiple competing hypotheses with insufficient data to choose between them. None have been eliminated.
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lucaspa
Legend
This is a red herring. Evolution is contingent but not chance. That is, natural selection is the opposite of chance -- pure determinism. The variations available to natural selection are also not chance per se, since they do have causes. But they are contingent in that particular variations do not have to be present and the necessary variations are not guaranteed to appear.DaQo'tah said:
Do you follow?
To be a Christian and accept science isn't a matter of juggling chance, but accepting what Butler says:
"The only distinct meaning of the word 'natural' is stated, fixed, or settled; since what is natural as much requires and presupposes an intelligent agent to render it so, i.e., to effect it continually or at stated times, as what is supernatural or miraculous does to effect it for once." Butler: Analogy of Revealed Religion.
Do you understand?
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I have a question... Is there a negative form of space time? Like an antispacetime or something? How, and where, would this stuff exist?lucaspa said:
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So the open-minded hate God? It never ceased to amaze me that when someone disagrees with another, then it opens the door to harsh judgements like these. Thankfully, the God of the Bible makes it clear that He does not judge by such measures. What's your excuse?gnarly love said:
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Not just insufficient data...insufficient mathematical tools and computational power to solve the equations of M-theory.lucaspa said:
In fact, there are other formulations of the BB as well...all of them break down under certain conditions. We may never know the precise cause of the expansion...a bitter pill for theoretical physicists.
Sadly, without a theory of quantum gravity (not to mention a lack of measurable data), these kinds of questions will remain enigmatic for some time.
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lucaspa
Legend
But it's insufficient data that matters. Even when the equations of M-theory are solved, that doesn't mean they reflect reality until we can test them.Mike Flynn said:
This isn't about formulations of the BB. This is about what caused the BB.
Again, this isn't the issue. We are not concerned with the cause of the expansion of the universe, but why there is a universe at all. Expanding or not.
"Even if there is only one possible unified theory, it is just a set of rules and equations. What is it that breathes fire into the equations and makes a universe for them to describe? The usual approach of science of constructing a mathematical model cannot answer the questions of why there should be a universe for the model to describe. Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? " Stephen Hawking, A Brief History of Time, pg 174.
Even with quantum gravity, the question remains unanswered. Quantum gravity will unify physics so we don't have two major but separate theories to describe the universe: relativity and QM. But it won't tell us the cause of the BB.
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lucaspa
Legend
I haven't heard anything about that. The theories state that antimatter also froze out of energy as the universe cooled. It annihilated ordinary matter and the energy of that annihilation is now the COMB. There was a slight imbalance between matter and anti-matter -- one part in a billion -- and it is that extra excess of matter that forms the matter in the universe.Michali said:
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