Challenge thread: Show me where in evolution is it anti-God.

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

There is a claim that is bandied around so often by people who are antagonistic towards the theory of evolution; that is is anti-God. That it was designed to replace God and Christianity.

And yet, not once have I seen anyone actually present where in the theory of evolution it says that.

Hence this challenge: Show me where in the theory of evolution it is anti-God, or anti-Christianity.

 

[inquiring mind]

There is a claim that is bandied around so often by people who are antagonistic towards the theory of evolution; that is is anti-God. That it was designed to replace God and Christianity.

And yet, not once have I seen anyone actually present where in the theory of evolution it says that.

Hence this challenge: Show me where in the theory of evolution it is anti-God, or anti-Christianity.

There is insolence through manner.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

There is insolence through manner.

And that's entirely subjective, not objective.

People say that the theory of evolution is anti-God. Show me where it says that.

 

[expos4ever]

While I certainly believe in evolution, I believe I can explain one of the standard objections. As you likely know, Christians embrace the concept of original sin - that all was hunky-dory in the world (no death or decay) until human beings sinned (in the Garden). Then, and only then so the Christian model purports, did death, for any organisms, enter the picture. Or at least that is my understanding - others can correct me if I am wrong.

I think you would agree that this is incompatible the theory of evolution - bazillions of organisms have died before modern humans appeared on the scene.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

While I certainly believe in evolution, I believe I can explain one of the standard objections. As you likely know, Christians embrace the concept of original sin - that all was hunky-dory in the world (no death or decay) until human beings sinned (in the Garden). Then, and only then so the Christian model purports, did death, for any organisms, enter the picture. Or at least that is my understanding - others can correct me if I am wrong.

I think you would agree that this is incompatible the theory of evolution - bazillions of organisms have died before modern humans appeared on the scene.

I mean, that is basically a given.

 

[expos4ever]

I mean, that is basically a given.

Do you not agree, though, that if Christians believe death only entered the world when human beings first "sinned", that view cannot be reconciled with evolution?

I thought you wanted to know reasons why a Christian would see evolution as "in conflict" with basic Christian doctrine.

Maybe that is what you asked.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Do you not agree, though, that if Christians believe death only entered the world when human beings first "sinned", that view cannot be reconciled with evolution.

I thought you wanted to know reasons why a Christian would see evolution as "in conflict" with basic Christian doctrine.

No, my question was very specific and literal: Show me where in the theory of evolution it is anti-God, or anti-Christianity.

That's what I want people to answer or give a comment on.

 

[zippy2006]

Hence this challenge: Show me where in the theory of evolution it is anti-God, or anti-Christianity.

Darwin himself moved slowly away from Christianity after formulating his theory of natural selection:

"Inward convictions and feelings" had arisen from natural selection, as had survival instincts, and could not be relied on.

[...]

"The old argument of design in nature, as given by Paley, which formerly seemed to me so conclusive, fails, now that the law of natural selection had been discovered. We can no longer argue that, for instance, the beautiful hinge of a bivalve shell must have been made by an intelligent being, like the hinge of a door by man. There seems to be no more design in the variability of organic beings and in the action of natural selection, than in the course which the wind blows. Everything in nature is the result of fixed laws."

(Wikipedia - Religious view of Charles Darwin)
​

Evolution has now superseded theism as the ultimate explanation for the human being and the natural world in many parts of the West. For some of the early proponents of Evolution this was intended, and for some it was not, but nowadays it is a simple fact.

 

[inquiring mind]

And that's entirely subjective, not objective.

People say that the theory of evolution is anti-God. Show me where it says that.

Where is theory of macroevolution headed if not contrary to God’s word on creation?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

For some of the early proponents of Evolution this was intended,

Who intended it? Where did they write their intentions?

This is exactly the sort of thing that I mean: people just come out with these claims about evolution and give nothing to suppor them.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Where is theory of macroevolution headed if not contrary to God’s word on creation?

Again, that's now what I'm asking. My question is in simple and literal English: Show me where in the theory of evolution it is anti-God, or anti-Christianity.

 

[zippy2006]

As you likely know, Christians embrace the concept of original sin - that all was hunky-dory in the world (no death or decay) until human beings sinned (in the Garden). Then, and only then so the Christian model purports, did death, for any organisms, enter the picture. Or at least that is my understanding - others can correct me if I am wrong.

Some Christians believed this, but many did not. Augustine and Aquinas were two central figures who said that death among irrational animals preceded the Fall. Augustine addresses the question in The Literal Meaning of Genesis 3.16.25, and Aquinas in Summa Theologiae I.96.1.ad2. See also, "Classical Theism and the Problem of Animal Suffering," by Derek Joseph Wiertel.

 

[zippy2006]

Hence this challenge: Show me where in the theory of evolution it is anti-God, or anti-Christianity.

"Clearly then, if your theism is one which gets its knowledge of God’s actions and purposes from a literal reading of the Bible, you have got a conflict. You cannot accept Genesis literally and evolution. That is a fact. In other words, there can be no accommodation between Creationism and evolution."

-Can an Evolutionist Be a Christian? - Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

"Clearly then, if your theism is one which gets its knowledge of God’s actions and purposes from a literal reading of the Bible, you have got a conflict. You cannot accept Genesis literally and evolution. That is a fact. In other words, there can be no accommodation between Creationism and evolution."

-Can an Evolutionist Be a Christian? - Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

Again, that's now my question. I'm asking: Show me where in the theory of evolution it is anti-God, or anti-Christianity.

 

[Mr Laurier]

Darwin himself moved slowly away from Christianity after formulating his theory of natural selection:

And?
Why did he move away from christianity?
Was it because of anything to do with evolution?
Or was it because his daughter died?

 

[zippy2006]

Again, that's now my question. I'm asking: Show me where in the theory of evolution it is anti-God, or anti-Christianity.

Direct answers to your question were given in posts #4, #8, and #13, and you have willfully ignored all of them. This does not surprise me, given past interactions with you, and I assume that this thread will be as unproductive as the others.

Note, though, that a scientific theory, insofar as it is scientific, cannot be "anti-God." It cannot have an anti-God bias. Such a notion is a strawman. At most scientific theories can be incompatible with certain religions, forms of religion, or theological beliefs. You have already been given three such beliefs: Original Sin, design, and Creationism.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Direct answers to your question were given in posts #4, #8, and #13, and you have willfully ignored all of them. This does not surprise me, given past interactions with you, and I assume that this thread will be as unproductive as the others.

Note, though, that a scientific theory, insofar as it is scientific, cannot be "anti-God." It cannot have an anti-God bias. Such a notion is a strawman. At most scientific theories can be incompatible with certain religions, forms of religion, or theological beliefs. You have already been given three such beliefs: Original Sin, design, and Creationism.

I am aware that evolution goes against Original sin, design and Creationism. I'm not arguing that.

What I am asking for is where, in the literature about the theory of evolution, written by Darwin or anyone, the theory of evolution states, clearly in black and white, that is is anti-God or anti-Christianity. That is my question, in black and white, and simple and literal English.

I do not get how I can make this comment any more simple to be understood.

 

[zippy2006]

Note, though, that a scientific theory, insofar as it is scientific, cannot be "anti-God." It cannot have an anti-God bias. Such a notion is a strawman.

What I am asking for is where, in the literature about the theory of evolution, written by Darwin or anyone, the theory of evolution states, clearly in black and white, that is is anti-God or anti-Christianity. That is my question, in black and white, and simple and literal English.

Scientific theories can be no more "anti-God" than lamp posts or butterflies can be "anti-God." Your notion that the theory is per se and formally "anti-God" is a strawman. You are knocking something down which no one believes.

 

[AV1611VET]

Here we go with another one of these IT MUST BE EXPRESSED, OR IT CAN'T BE ADDRESSED challenges.

Hence this challenge: Show me where in the theory of evolution it is anti-God, or anti-Christianity.

Evolution says we are animals.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Scientific theories can be no more "Anti-God" than lamp posts or butterflies can be "Anti-God."

Again, I am not arguing that. Yet as I state in the very first line of the OP:
"There is a claim that is bandied around so often by people who are antagonistic towards the theory of evolution; that is is anti-God. That it was designed to replace God and Christianity."

I am asking for proof of that claim from the people who make that claim.

Do you understand me with this?