Challenge for Non Mormons

[unbound]

Aliester Crowley helped form the KKK. He also thought that the priesthood of magick should also only be used by whites.

Does this sound familiar?

 

[Jason of Wyoming]

Aliester Crowley helped form the KKK. He also thought that the priesthood of magick should also only be used by whites.

Does this sound familiar?

I believe you meant to say Albert Pike, not Aleister Crowley.

 

[carolbob]

The masonic influences in mormonism are pretty much common knowledge. LDS can deny all they want, there are significant parallels. Secret oaths, secret handshakes(what other religion does that?), garments, etc... No other prophet or apostle taught anything about a secret handshake and being part of an elitist society. This didn't go on in Paul's day and age either. These rituals cause a false sense of salvation or damnation depending on one's adherence to them. Is this something Jesus taught? Emphatically no!

 

[He put me back together]

Mentioning a tie with Freemasons may or may not be a valid point, but I think doing so probably belongs in another thread. This one seems to be about whether or not fabricating the BOM, or any alledged work of nonfiction like it, is possible or probable. I think mentioning ties to Freemasonry brings us off of the subject. Perhaps you guys could speak about a relationship of Freemasonry to something in Mormon documents, rather than Mormon rituals, if you feel that there is one somewhere? I think this conversation is about documentation, particularly the Book of Mormon, moreso than whether or not Mormonism in general is valid, right, or whatnot.

 

[unbound]

I believe you meant to say Albert Pike, not Aleister Crowley.

Yep, your right. I gotta quit staying up so late.

 

[neocon]

I don't think there is anything you have to offer that hasn't already been covered in the John Whitmer Historical society meeting, and probably the Mormon History Association meetings. They are professional scholars, and if they haven't unearthed any definite links leading to a positive case of plageurism (and believe me, they have tried) then I doubt that anyone else has.

But thanks for your effort.

Hmmmm perhaps there is nothing that you willl accept which shows the BOM to not be a revelation from God. That is your choice I suppose. Still I would think you should be a little bit concerned that a portion of Smith's original BOM seems to have been written in Spauldings hand.

 

[ST:DS9]

Hmmmm perhaps there is nothing that you willl accept which shows the BOM to not be a revelation from God. That is your choice I suppose. Still I would think you should be a little bit concerned that a portion of Smith's original BOM seems to have been written in Spauldings hand.

Still waiting for proof on that spaulding thing. There seems to be more proof that it was all a lie, and alot of speculation saying it wasn't. I even talked about this one with a Baptist Minister in Texas, his church holds yearly classes on teaching people about the false teachings of Mormonism. We talked to him for a while at his house. My companion brought up the Spaulding subject. The minister laughed, and he said he couldn't believe that people still hold on to that hoax as being true, he said when the facts came out, it was an obvious lie brought out by a disgruntled ex-mormon. He even said in his yearly classes that he mentions this and tells his members to disregard it and only teach the truth. It was a nice conversation with him, though he did say that unless we change our beliefs that we will burn in hell when we die, and that he'll pray that we'll see the truth and that he would like to see us in heaven.

 

[neocon]

Still waiting for proof on that spaulding thing.........................

No you are not- sufficient evidence/LINKS were provided for anyone who is serious about the issue. Why not just admit that you will not give serious consideration to the rather obvious truth that JS and his religion are based completely on fraud.

 

[A New Dawn]

No you are not- sufficient evidence/LINKS were provided for anyone who is serious about the issue. Why not just admit that you will not give serious consideration to the rather obvious truth that JS and his religion are based completely on fraud.

You have provided nothing.

After reading the first 4 pages of part of the text of the thesis that they have allowed posted on the internet, I wasn't sure that I would continue to read it as all those pages had offered was could's and if's. But you insisted that the evidence was there, so I read everything that was on that link. And all that was contained in the two whole chapters that they allowed to be posted on the internet was a lot of hearsay (I never knew him, but this person said that about him), several unsubstantiated and unproven accusations, and a couple of "testimonies" of people who were 70 or 80 years old who said they could recall with complete accuracy something that happened when they were teenagers.

I saw no proof of anything in Spaulding's handwriting, as you claim. I can't see how you can post that link as proof when they refuse to post 5 of the 7 chapters of "proof".

Like the poster asked, please provide the proof you are talking about.

 

[neocon]

You have provided nothing..........................

Like the poster asked, please provide the proof you are talking about.

Lets not be disingenuous. You know bloody well other LINKS were provided. The reference to Spaulding's hand writing in the original BOM autographs is easily found in Walter Martin's books. The BOM is a fraud from first to last. Get over it.

 

[He put me back together]

ugh

Ok, folks...I'm out of this one. Have fun

 

[A New Dawn]

Lets not be disingenuous. You know bloody well other LINKS were provided. The reference to Spaulding's hand writing in the original BOM autographs is easily found in Walter Martin's books. The BOM is a fraud from first to last. Get over it.

The only other link you provided in this thread was for this anti site. http://www.mormonstudies.com/index.html

If you want to discuss things, and you wish to prove a point, the burden of proof is on you. The least you could do is provide links to those sites that do just that, provide proof. You linked to an anti site and a site that provided no proof because 5/7 of the book was not online. (I have no idea who Walter Martin is, if you wish to provide a link to a site he has "proof" on, I would gladly look at it.)

However, discuss is the key word. It is obvious that you do not wish to discuss anything, and when someone doesn't believe your proof (which really wasn't), then you just accuse them of having a closed mind and refuse to talk.

When you wish to talk, really talk, you know where we are.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

well children, enjoy fighting over your toys, I think this thread is dead in the water.

 

[neocon]

......................(I have no idea who Walter Martin is, if you wish to provide a link to a site .......................

Again you remain disingenuous. The LINK I provided references his books on the Spaulding issue. Visit a bookstore or a library.

 

[A New Dawn]

Again you remain disingenuous. The LINK I provided references his books on the Spaulding issue. Visit a bookstore or a library.

So you pull one sentence out of my post and address it by not addressing it. I'll remember how you play next time you come to "discuss" an issue here, neocon.

It was awfully nice meeting you.

 

[gort]

The Beav: Hey Wally? I think Dads' gonna pull the car over to the side of the road in a minute......

Wally: yeah, me too....let's get outa here....

 

[moosiz]

It's easy to find flaws in other people's beliefs based on observation but when that overtakes finding the truth in your own then ur in trouble.

 

[Rescued One]

It's easy to find flaws in other people's beliefs based on observation but when that overtakes finding the truth in your own then ur in trouble.

John 14
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If we here had not found Christ, we wouldn't care what LDS teach or where they're headed.