Challenge for a formal debate

[SkyWriting]

I agree. There is nothing more aggravating than a derailed thread.

Ouch! Guilty.

 

[SkyWriting]

I agree with most of what you said. Except I have been working on a new YEC theory. One that every evolutionist I meet hates because it makes all the evidence work.

Example: The 6 days of creation were done before sin, correct? So what is time minus sin? It's eternal. So the 6 days of creation were done under eternal laws, not non-eternal laws. That is why our current laws cannot explain creation. It would be like trying to make water boil at sea level at 100 degrees. Won't work.

So what would make time eternal? Currently, as time progresses, so does age. As long as age progresses, life cannot be eternal. So if you disconnect age from time so that when time progresses, age does not. Then you have eternity.

How it applies to living matter:

Except this changes the rules of everything. Why? If nothing ever ages, then life never grows up. So if God does not create all life in adult age, then life would simply die because most infant life cannot take care of themselves.

How it applies to dead matter:

A new created earth would be to hot for life to exist. And because in eternity nothing ever ages, earth would never cool down. So to create a new earth would not work. So God created an old earth so that His creation would work. Works the same way for our Sun. This makes age a part of how creation had to work.

Is there scripture to support this?

ps 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

2pet 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

God laid an old foundation, and He made it old by His word. The evo cop out is that God tricked us doing this. No. If you are open minded to the laws of physics being different at one time, it works out perfectly. Plus, as I have shown. It's clearly written. So how is it a trick?

Does this make age dating wrong? Nope. In fact it makes both time-lines correct. The 4.6 billion year aged earth shows God's creation power during eternity. The Biblical time-line shows the "actual" time passage.

How does that explain star light and light years? Because everything had to be created with age already added because age does not progress in eternity. When God made the light shine upon the earth, the star aged according to how far the light had to travel. The only star that did not happen to was our sun.

Yes, we are in sync. I didn't have your insights on the formula though. Yours is short & sweet. Another guy has about 3 pages of text to say the same thing. He say's it's about us being living bricks in the wall of Zion. Stuff I'm not familiar with yet.

 

[SkyWriting]

And yet the incarnate Jesus, being sinless, nevertheless experienced time.

Poof! goes yet another fanciful creationist eisegesis.

As did the "First" man.

<< 1 Corinthians 15:47 >>
The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven.
http://www.bibletruthsonline.com/second_adam.htmhttp://www.bibletruthsonline.com/second_adam.htm

It's ok. You just forgot.

 

[SkyWriting]

Not to mention the tiny matter of God not being able to lie.

Different set of Laws. You have to take the prevailing conditions into account.
All scientists understand that.

 

[SkyWriting]

<snip>
I mean seriously..."Time minus sin = Eternity"....is this valid mathematics in any way???
The problem w/ this ridiculous "theory" is obvious. Eternity and time are not physical objects. Eternity is only a metaphysical abstract to describe a period of time too great to be measured by any man made instruments, or even historical records.
<snip>
Anyone who has even done basic 10th grade calculations knows you have to get your UNITS all arranged properly before the problem can be solved. This doesn't seem to be the case in this instance...

Actually, he's correct. Eternity is only available to the sinless. He's assuming that sinners don't spend eternity in Hell. A matter of debate. I'm on the fence on that one.

So his formula is very condensed, but correct.

 

[Assyrian]

As did the "First" man.

<< 1 Corinthians 15:47 >>
The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven.
Is Jesus The Second Adam

It's ok. You just forgot.

I think you'll have to unpack this a bit more. How exactly does it invalidate shernren's argument?

 

[Assyrian]

Actually, he's correct. Eternity is only available to the sinless. He's assuming that sinners don't spend eternity in Hell. A matter of debate. I'm on the fence on that one.

So his formula is very condensed, but correct.

By 'his formula is condensed' you mean it is missing parts? I don't think that even helps. Of course you can construct true statements containing the words 'time' 'sin' and 'eternity'. When we are washed from the Sins we committed during Time, we will spend Eternity with God. Assuming eternity is outside time, which is possible, but another matter of debate. But that does not boil down to Time minus sin = Eternity

 

[Cabal]

Different set of Laws. You have to take the prevailing conditions into account.

So...that makes it ok for God to lie? Don't think so.

All scientists understand that.

All scientists know pulling explanations out of thin air without justification is dumb. Too bad for some....

 

[shernren]

I mean, what does God say about the new heaven and the new earth?

&#8203;&#8203;&#8203;&#8203;&#8203;&#8203;&#8203;&#8203;But be glad and rejoice forever
in that which I create;
for behold, I create Jerusalem to be a joy,
and her people to be a gladness.

&#8203;&#8203;&#8203;&#8203;&#8203;&#8203;&#8203;&#8203;I will rejoice in Jerusalem
and be glad in my people;
no more shall be heard in it
the sound of weeping and the cry of distress.

&#8203;&#8203;&#8203;&#8203;&#8203;&#8203;&#8203;&#8203;No more shall there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not fill out his days,
for the young man shall die a hundred years old,
and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.
(Isa 65:18-20, ESV)

Woohoo! Looks like Isaiah's idea of "forever" is pretty different from ikester's.

 

[SkyWriting]

I agree with most of what you said. Except I have been working on a new YEC theory. One that every evolutionist I meet hates because it makes all the evidence work.

Example: The 6 days of creation were done before sin, correct? So what is time minus sin? It's eternal. So the 6 days of creation were done under eternal laws, not non-eternal laws. That is why our current laws cannot explain creation. It would be like trying to make water boil at sea level at 100 degrees. Won't work.

So what would make time eternal? Currently, as time progresses, so does age. As long as age progresses, life cannot be eternal. So if you disconnect age from time so that when time progresses, age does not. Then you have eternity.

How it applies to living matter:

Except this changes the rules of everything. Why? If nothing ever ages, then life never grows up. So if God does not create all life in adult age, then life would simply die because most infant life cannot take care of themselves.

How it applies to dead matter:

A new created earth would be to hot for life to exist. And because in eternity nothing ever ages, earth would never cool down. So to create a new earth would not work. So God created an old earth so that His creation would work. Works the same way for our Sun. This makes age a part of how creation had to work.

Is there scripture to support this?

ps 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

2pet 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

God laid an old foundation, and He made it old by His word. The evo cop out is that God tricked us doing this. No. If you are open minded to the laws of physics being different at one time, it works out perfectly. Plus, as I have shown. It's clearly written. So how is it a trick?

Does this make age dating wrong? Nope. In fact it makes both time-lines correct. The 4.6 billion year aged earth shows God's creation power during eternity. The Biblical time-line shows the "actual" time passage.

How does that explain star light and light years? Because everything had to be created with age already added because age does not progress in eternity. When God made the light shine upon the earth, the star aged according to how far the light had to travel. The only star that did not happen to was our sun.

A brilliant mind here.

 

[mark kennedy]

I'd like to challenge Ikester to a formal debate. It can be one of the following subjects:

Is the creation account literal history?

Do Christian theologians find a literal reading of the creation account to be necessary for Christian doctrine?

Is carbon 14 dating accurate?

Does genetics support evolution or creationism?

I'd be open to other subjects as well. If you're interested we could post the debate here, and then also post it in the official debate forum at evolutionfairytale so that your friends there can see how illogical my evolutionist arguments are.

Let me know what you think.

I haven't seen the thread but if he is not interested let me know, I would be.