Chairman Mao

jidujiao said:
What is your opinion of Mao ZeDong? I suppose that's too general, but I'm just interested to hear whether you love him, hate him, or are somewhere in between, and why. Do you think he was a good leader? Horrible? A bit of both?

I'll weigh in later.

One of the most evil despots of the 20th century
 
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kurabrhm

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jidujiao said:
What is your opinion of Mao ZeDong? I suppose that's too general, but I'm just interested to hear whether you love him, hate him, or are somewhere in between, and why. Do you think he was a good leader? Horrible? A bit of both?

I'll weigh in later.


I'm rather fascinated by this Mao character!
But I think the thread starter should contextualise his question a bit more! Perhaps give a few more details as to who Mao was to those who don't know Chinese history that well.
 
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Ben is Dead

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Mao was a peasant who became leader of China by fighting off the Japanese during WW2
His communism mirrors Marxism, then evolved to a new brand of government coined Maoism.
He was responsible for the deaths of millions of Chinese ppl throughout his long rule.
Just look him up on the internet they got a lot of stuff on him.
And yeah he was a despot.
 
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mikefromwichita said:
One of the most evil despots of the 20th century

Come on guys where do you learn this stuff?

Mao as far as they [dictators] go was "sugar and spice and all things nice."

If you study his regme in any detail you can see the usual list of murders and purges and human rights abuses (no worse than some American attrocities). The vast death count comes from vast economic error in conjunction with a very bad year for farming.

He was an idiot, who's poor judge of economic situation created one of the largest famines in history, but he never meant for it to happen that way. It completely contradicts his generally moderate rule (moderate compaired to a lot of them any way, IE Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler, Papa Doc and Milosovik(sp) to name a few.)

But for such a despot he still managed to achieve near universal popularity wth his people

His communism mirrors Marxism

Please, try reading your Marxism first, the whole Leninist spin on "communism" is directly in contradiction of Marxism. Marxism is far less authoritarian, so much so that it is near to bordering on anarchism in many cases. Mao was way off marxism.
 
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TheRealityOfMan

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Wasn't Mao that superhero guy who was a normal guy one minute and then turned into a chair? What was his superhero name again? Must have been power-chair or chair-dude or something like that.

Anyway his motto as he fought the evil Tibetan Monks of doom and wicked cloners on Taiwan island, was "political power comes out of the barrel of a gun".

Or something like that.
 
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jidujiao

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I didn't give much background because I figured those who had an opinion would state it, and those who didn't know much about Mao wouldn't bother posting. Giving background would've biased everyone from the start. Here's my take on Mao. I could play devil's advocate and take the other side, but I'm too tired to bother.

China doesn't exactly have a history of good, equitable, just government. Heck, I would've supported the Communists, too, at the end of WWII. I understand why many (although not on this forum) people think Mao was great because he helped get rid of the Japanese. The Japanese committed atrocities against the Chinese as horrible as the Nazis committed against the Jews. Others think Mao did a good thing when he got rid of the corrupt Kuomintang (KMT), the ruling party at the time. But as to the KMT, he replaced it with a system that eventually was no less corrupt. At the end of WWII, though, changes were needed in China and Mao was the best option available.

And then he went crazy with power. Abraham Lincoln said, "Almost everyone can withstand hardship. If you want to test a man's character, give him power." If we judge Mao by that standard, he fails spectacularly. Meanwhile, the Chinese people were like the proverbial frog being slowly boiled in the pot. By the time most people realized how horrible the new regime really was, it was too late to change it. Mao progressively introduced more and more purges, directed against larger and larger portions of the population. In the end, he had destroyed the nation's economy, historical artefacts, way of life, and traditional culture.

One of the purposes of government is to safeguard the welfare of its people. Mao cared nothing about China or its people. Mao cared about Mao. He preferred to let 27million (or perhaps it was as much as 47million, depending on your source) people die in the Great Leap Forward because he wouldn't admit he was wrong. The farming error occurred simply because everyone was so busy melting down their doorknobs and kitchen knives in Mao's steel-production scheme that the (bountiful) crops just rotted in the fields. The famine was completely man-made. In addition, the Chinese countryside was completely stripped of trees and the steel produced was worthless. Peng Dehuai respectfully suggested a change was needed because the people were having a rough go of it, and his life was subsequently wrecked by Mao.

Mao was good at getting others to do his dirty work for him. Anyone who possessed an independent thought was removed, leaving China in the hands of the stupid and uneducated. Because of his skill in pitting people against each other, he seemed to be above the fray and let others take down his enemies. He destroyed the economy and openly admonished the citizenry to deal violently with whichever section of the population he was targeting for destruction at the time. During the Hundred Flowers campaign, he encouraged people to speak their criticisms of the government and promised that there would be no harmful consequences to those who did. A trusting population, believing that the government was good and willing to listen to its suggestions, complied. A year later, he waged a campaign to ruin all those who had obeyed his instructions.

Not only was Mao bad to China, he's poisoned other countries. Pol Pot went back to Cambodia from a meeting with Mao, moved everyone (over 95% of the population) out of Phnom Penh, and pretty much destroyed the nation of Cambodia. This, based on Mao's advice. I think the Shining Path guerillas in Peru were Maoist. And right now the government of Nepal is fighting desperately against brutal Maoist rebels (the government soldiers aren't beyond brutality themselves, though).

If you compare it with governments past, China's government today is fantastic. The people are freer than ever before. They've got a lot to fix, but looking at how far they've come in the last 40 years, they're doing pretty good. The best thing Mao ever did for China was die.
 
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jidujiao said:
The people are freer than ever before.

Their freedom is only skin deep. At least in the past, they were able to have freedom of thought. Just tell that to the Christians who are beaten and jailed for their beliefs. They aren't free, the government just operates under the facade of "freedom."
 
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Communism most often does good overthrowing a bad regime, but in the process of administering control, they somehow accept the addumptions and methods of the hated regime they overthrew. Mao in China is no different. Mao is not my favourite person that's for sure, but there's something about those of us that are obsessed with history that makes learning about him interesting. I guess it's a sickness of the mind that historians are so interested in horrible wars and extreme historical personalities.
jidujiao said:
Not only was Mao bad to China, he's poisoned other countries. Pol Pot went back to Cambodia from a meeting with Mao, moved everyone (over 95% of the population) out of Phnom Penh, and pretty much destroyed the nation of Cambodia. This, based on Mao's advice. I think the Shining Path guerillas in Peru were Maoist. And right now the government of Nepal is fighting desperately against brutal Maoist rebels (the government soldiers aren't beyond brutality themselves, though).
The Khmer Rouges decisions are their own, Mao can't be fully blamed for it any more than FDR or Churchill could blamed for the crimes of their one time ally, Stalin. The Khmer Rouge followed Maoist thought even more completely than the Chinese did, and the communist government of Democratic Kampuchea has been dubbed by many political scientists as "Hyper-Maoist" because of this. Pol Pot and his party made plenty of dumb, irrational decisions in their rule, whether they had China on side or not. But the China-D. Kampuchea relationship was one of convenience for both sides, just as the less cozy but at times still questionable US-D. Kampuchea relationship was. True, Mao overlooked all of the horror that happened in Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge, and his ideology has been enthusiastically adopted there and many other places in the world by some groups. But Maoist Thought isn't entirely in the control of Mao since it began.
If you compare it with governments past, China's government today is fantastic. The people are freer than ever before. They've got a lot to fix, but looking at how far they've come in the last 40 years, they're doing pretty good. The best thing Mao ever did for China was die.
Agreed, the reforms under Deng Xiao-ping have brought the greatest lifestyle benefit to the most amount of people of almost all the reformers in history. But there's a lot of room for improvement.
 
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Nijii Iro said:
There's a difference between _earning_ near universal popularity, and brainwashing your people, forcing them to worship you upon penalty of death.

But the point is he didn't, ther actually genuinly loved the guy, who knows why, but they did.

Though i dont blame you, if I was brought up on all that US Evil reds nonsense propaganda I would probably believe that commies are all satan worshipers who eat babies etc.
 
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jgarden

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Mao's strength was that of a military leader, not a peacetime administrator. He faught the Japanese and unified much of the country one way or another. Unfortunately, Mao helped instigate the Korean War and created major tensions between China and the Allies.

As an administrator, he was a disaster. It is estimated that millions died from famine. The cultural revolution and the Red Guard undermined many of the country's advances. Despite his weaknesses, Mao was held in esteem because he unified China and made her a power on the world stage.
 
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