CF's resident Israel-bashers at it again.

[Eben Abram]

Shalom Alecheim

The issue ignored by supporters often is whether G-d is with Israel, or using a nation to chastize Israel.

Until the nation be saved, we are commanded to Pray for the Peace not necessarily support every decision made. A Supporter will often contradict themselves as I can show in two questions.

1) Do you Support Israel. Yes is the common answer.
2) Do you support Israel's Right to give land for peace and give a portion of Jerusalem to Palestinian? The common answer is no.

The issue is G-d and not man.

Men, Jews and Gentiles, want their own agenda's in the world and do not have a World View according to what Messiah said or did.

Messiah told a Roman Governor once, This is not my Kingdom.

He told his disciples to put down the sword for those that live by the sword will die by it. He also refused to let the Zealot's manipulate 'Faith" into politics and throw of Roman Rule.

He cared absolutely nothing for the governments of man for if you can govern the heart the man will change.

If you change the Man, the government will change.

If you do this in order, you are indeed following His Will.

But, People, want what they want, When They Want, How they Want, As they Want and Play G-d rather than Serve G-d.

The Beleiver was told to not love thier lives even unto death and Love Enemies, Can you love a neighbor who just shot a Ketushka rocket inot your mothers house killing your children.

No?

Better get a grip then, because that is what a Messianic Believer IS, and the Messianic Cong in Israel that got burned out twenty years ago, rebuilt and NEVER RAISED A RALLYING CRY against those who did it.........and the Reform Temple in Jerusalem, SO SHOCKED over the response of the Messianic Jews, HOUSED and allowed the Messianic Jews to Meet there till the New Facility was built and I can say having met one of the Men who was there, HE accepted Messiah over that incident.

You See, Christian, what makes you a "christ like" is how you die, not how you live.

If you die like Christ, Forgiving, Giving Mercy, Dying waht you said you live, then your Life will have meaning to the person watching.

But if you take the Way of the World and make a Political Statement you not only deserve Gaza, you sahould visit there. I have.

Get a grip, the answers are not in Man, but in God.

It is the real fact of what Messiah calls you to do that proves your worth or worthless in the Kingdom of Heaven and those who sit afar and make judgement calls about political kingdoms are just sucking thier thumbs and reaching for another gospel bottle to peddle to someone who will buy the line and rededicate over and over and over again thier life to serve God in a way they want to.

The reality of Jesus as Messiah and L-rd God was not to let you Be ALL you can be, but Let G-d Be All He Is, by your sacrifice of self for the sake of the Jew in Israel, and the Arab in Gaza and you won't like it and you won't agree but your G-d wants you to pray for the Hamas too.

The problem is NOT Israel and GAZA, the Issue is you.

Where are you?

After that,

Who are you?

Eben

 

[ChavaK]

But Jews, Christians and others who support Israel need to always be on the watch for falling into the equal and opposite error- supporting Israel no matter what she does.

And in that the thread you have the opposite, people who will condemn Israel no matter what.

Take a look at these quotes from the first several posts there:

When will the US wake up to the satanic power it has nourished from its bosom ?

Stop Israel Apartheid

When will the US wake up to the satanic power it has nourished from its bosom ?

Unfortunately, never! The Jewish state will now forever have the excuse of the Holocaust to justify any of their attrocities as "self-defence"! And if you call them to task, of COURSE you're a vile anti-semite!

Agreed! Sadly, only attrocities committed by the Jewish State (which I find has learned remarkably well from the Germans!) are tolerated, if not outright approved by the (alas) U.S.A. dominated UN and other lackeys of the U.S.A.!


If european jews had never illegally come to palestine and though terrorism and violence driven the Palestinian people from our lands and engaged in 60+ years of occupation, apartheid and opression upon my people none of this would have happened.


The only way 200 rockets could even make it out of Gaza in the first place is if the Israelis allowed it.

These people are not rational, and have no capability to see that Israel can EVER
do any good. To waste time on them is not worth the effort because they can
NEVER see past their hatred.

 

[Eben Abram]

And in that the thread you have the opposite, people who will condemn Israel no matter what.

Take a look at these quotes from the first several posts there:


These people are not rational, and have no capability to see that Israel can EVER
do any good. To waste time on them is not worth the effort because they can
NEVER see past their hatred.

Shalom ALecheim

I am the most irrational of all.

The difference between a Judaism of Man and Jew with G-d is in the post right here.

Messiah has not wasted his time on the Orthodox, nor on the Jew, nor the Gentile, nor the Atheist, nor those who despitefully use, abuse and kill.

Wasted? no, In fact it is allowed to happen to reveal the heart of men, those to whom the words of Messiah ARE REAL and those to whom philosophy can never heal.

As long as the person sees only the outward things, they can no more understand G-d and His Son than a Jew can accept G-d is real. 99% reject the realization that G-d is personal, real, and speaks.

Sadly, most of his Believers do too.

But still Messiah died for Israel to be saved, and those in Gaza too.

He rose again because when he comes again He will deal with the superficial issues, till then it is the eternal ones that matter.

Eben

 

[ContraMundum]

And in that the thread you have the opposite, people who will condemn Israel no matter what.

Take a look at these quotes from the first several posts there:


These people are not rational, and have no capability to see that Israel can EVER
do any good. To waste time on them is not worth the effort because they can
NEVER see past their hatred.

I would argue that these people have other motivations for their anger towards Israel- some anti-semitic, others political. The anti-semites one can do nothing for but pray. The political Israel-haters, on the other hand, are something we can and should work on. They are generally victims of mis-information and misplaced good will. The issue, for them, is one of human rights. One deplorable outcome of the human rights movement is that they have become naive and suckers for all kinds of propaganda. They forget that the political power behind groups like Hamas is basically extremist Islamism, which is intolerant, militant and extremely violent. While Hamas and Hezbollah often appear to be doing humanitarian work by handing out the occasional food parcel, their aims are basically to blind and brainwash people into keeping them in power- they are dictatorships still in the infantile stage. They are incompetant and dangerous, but the brainwashing program behind them manages to keep their subjects from putting the blame for their trials on them, instead fooling them into opting for the selected scapegoats- Israel, the UK and the USA.

This is something we can and should address- the Orwellian world of Islamist propaganda. We can, through much effort, present a clear picture to those who hate Israel for human rights abuses. The cry of "apartheid" against Israel only holds water if one ignores the violence initiated by Islamists that has given Israel no other option other than to keep their people safely at a distance from the Islamists. Likewise the ridiculous cry that Israel is "genocidal" against Palestinians. There would be no refugee camps if there were no Islamists blowing up school buses, and no military retaliation if there were nothing to retaliate against. Now, we have the cry repeated again with this new war against Hamas- but the real question is this: has Hamas left Israel any other options? Short answer, no.

If the Israel-haters put their microscope on Hamas like they do Israel, which political entity would come up looking the most humanitarian? Surely, it would be Israel, as imperfect as she is.

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

You know Talmidah had posted an article in response to the mockers trivialising Hamas passing a law authorising crucifixion as a punishment typically for "enemies of Islam". As usual it was mocked.

I've just had to leave them to it or else sin by what was on the tip of my tongue.

I was reminded of Thumper's quote in Bambi

"If you can't say something nice... don't say nothing at all."

That's why I tend to avoid the part of the forum - it highlights that I still have much to work on with my own flesh.

 

[anisavta]

Back to the OP.
We have many people out in the world and sad to say on these Christian forums who have been taught that Israel is the bad guy. They had their chance and blew it so now HaShem has abandoned them to their own devices and chosen another better people. Thus we read all the down right hatred in the name of Christendom because of it.
And now as Israel is fighting back because they are finally fed up with small villages and towns being pelted with rockets every day 24/7 (have we no idea how emotionally stressful and damaging it is to have to run to a bomb shelter several times a day every day no stopping - hoping your children at school are making it to that shelter?) Christendom is taking sides and condemning the fight. Media barrages us with stories and pictures of only the Palestinian children who are being hurt. But never do you hear about the Israeli children who have been hurt days on end. Never do they tell you that Hamas builds its arsenals and headquarters under schools and homes because they don't care who gets hurt.
And now major Christian groups are saying Israel needs to stop this fighting.
I'm sorry but we can spiritualize this all we want. Bottom line is Israel fights for her life and people sit around in the "coliseum" and gives the thumbs up or thumbs down to her.

 

[Alive4Evermore]

Bottom line is Israel fights for her life and people sit around in the "coliseum" and gives the thumbs up or thumbs down to her.

Well said.

 

[Eben Abram]

Shalom Alecheim

No.

I'm sorry but we can spiritualize this all we want. Bottom line is Israel fights for her life and people sit around in the "coliseum" and gives the thumbs up or thumbs down to her.

It is Spiritual. It is G-d. It is His Will be done or we might as well quit being Christians and start being terrorists.

G-d said IN ALL OCCASIONS regarding ISRAEL, HE and HE alone was in charge.

HE to bless and HE to Curse and HE to chastize.

Do You think Hamas is worse than Rome was?
Yet Jesus, the Messiah, Y'shua ha meshiach only took notice of Rome to frankly be so "Spiritual" that he dared to "save the Roman" as well as the Jew and ignore the political climate.

Jew and Roman Were ticked off because HE chose neither side.

Now I see a diatribe of Hamas and I say, that is the Norm
I see a diatribe from Christian biases and I say, that is what they do.
I see the "cyber-proxy" and when they could realize a stand for God, take a issue and make it a political theme rather than a God given and God directed opportunity to say,

Better to save both sides because GOD SAID the area of Gaza was accursed and would be.

So I have a choice, let me tell Israel and use all I am to remind Israel ONLY Messiah can solve the issue, or deny the facts that the Spiritual Answer is the only answer so I can "appease" my conscience of some momentary issue that will resurfece over and over again NO MATTER WHAT I DO>

Y'shua, in ONE ACT, changed the World forever, He said LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, then died to prove He was not going to Save the Nation.

HE WAS NOT GOING TO SAVE THE NATION.

In fact, he said, LOOK AT THIS, NOT one stone would be left unturned and frankly had it been possible by force or politics he would have done it and would do it.

It can't be done.

Hell will be unleashed on Israel and according to Zechariah instead of 1/3 of Jews annihilated in holocaust, 2/3rds will be wiped out in Trib.

SO if so be it is for His People, are you that "spiritual" you think the "church' will not be tried and proven?

According to Rev, it shall be and so few saved that the Scripture is more warning than reassurance of a Utopian Humanism that says Man can solve his own problems.

He can't.

The greatest people who affected the World for centuries are those who lived and died for the cause of peace they lived out and the greatest of all influential people, the Son of God, affected the World Forever, by choosing the Way of Peace, which they had not known, which can never be by the sword.

You can die, and the Chrsitian Martyrs will tell you to your face, tha tif you do, as G-d directs, that person watching HOW you die, just might learn something to live eternally.

The Nursery Rhymes of How Christianity is a political action team and world policy holder are over, it's high time the "little christs' started getting crucified for the faith they say they have.

Missionaries already do this., while the rest,

Take sides God NEVER said to do.

Eben

 

[anisavta]

So Eben (and please just answer without flowery speech) what do we do?
Pray? Absolutely. Pray for His kingdom to come and His will to be done. And that will happen in His time and in His way.
But practically speaking does Israel tell the UN - "we've decided to lay down our weapons and allow Hamas, Hezbollah and the Muslim world to destroy us. We'll just gather around with our children and wait for Messiah"?
Eban what would have happened if Nehemiah had looked at the walls of the City and said well folks it's a mess here and our enemies are ready to attack us so we'll just try to rebuild and allow G~d to deliver us like He did for Joshua. No this is what he said:
Nehemiah 4:4-14 (NKJV)
4 Hear, O our God, for we are despised; turn their reproach on their own heads, and give them as plunder to a land of captivity!
5 Do not cover their iniquity, and do not let their sin be blotted out from before You; for they have provoked You to anger before the builders.
6 So we built the wall, and the entire wall was joined together up to half its height, for the people had a mind to work.
7 Now it happened, when Sanballat, Tobiah, the Arabs, the Ammonites, and the Ashdodites heard that the walls of Jerusalem were being restored and the gaps were beginning to be closed, that they became very angry,
8 and all of them conspired together to come and attack Jerusalem and create confusion.
9 Nevertheless we made our prayer to our God, and because of them we set a watch against them day and night.
10 Then Judah said, "The strength of the laborers is failing, and there is so much rubbish that we are not able to build the wall."
11 And our adversaries said, "They will neither know nor see anything, till we come into their midst and kill them and cause the work to cease."
12 So it was, when the Jews who dwelt near them came, that they told us ten times, "From whatever place you turn, they will be upon us."
13 Therefore I positioned men behind the lower parts of the wall, at the openings; and I set the people according to their families, with their swords, their spears, and their bows.
14 And I looked, and arose and said to the nobles, to the leaders, and to the rest of the people, "Do not be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, great and awesome, and fight for your brethren, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your houses."

 

[Eben Abram]

So Eben (and please just answer without flowery speech) what do we do?
Pray? Absolutely. Pray for His kingdom to come and His will to be done. And that will happen in His time and in His way.
But practically speaking does Israel tell the UN - "we've decided to lay down our weapons and allow Hamas, Hezbollah and the Muslim world to destroy us. We'll just gather around with our children and wait for Messiah"?
Eban what would have happened if Nehemiah had looked at the walls of the City and said well folks it's a mess here and our enemies are ready to attack us so we'll just try to rebuild and allow G~d to deliver us like He did for Joshua. No this is what he said:
Nehemiah 4:4-14 (NKJV)
4 Hear, O our God, for we are despised; turn their reproach on their own heads, and give them as plunder to a land of captivity!
5 Do not cover their iniquity, and do not let their sin be blotted out from before You; for they have provoked You to anger before the builders.
6 So we built the wall, and the entire wall was joined together up to half its height, for the people had a mind to work.
7 Now it happened, when Sanballat, Tobiah, the Arabs, the Ammonites, and the Ashdodites heard that the walls of Jerusalem were being restored and the gaps were beginning to be closed, that they became very angry,
8 and all of them conspired together to come and attack Jerusalem and create confusion.
9 Nevertheless we made our prayer to our God, and because of them we set a watch against them day and night.
10 Then Judah said, "The strength of the laborers is failing, and there is so much rubbish that we are not able to build the wall."
11 And our adversaries said, "They will neither know nor see anything, till we come into their midst and kill them and cause the work to cease."
12 So it was, when the Jews who dwelt near them came, that they told us ten times, "From whatever place you turn, they will be upon us."
13 Therefore I positioned men behind the lower parts of the wall, at the openings; and I set the people according to their families, with their swords, their spears, and their bows.
14 And I looked, and arose and said to the nobles, to the leaders, and to the rest of the people, "Do not be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, great and awesome, and fight for your brethren, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your houses."

Shalom Alecheim

Really...Nehemiah rather than Messiah?

Some call this a sermon, some say a manifesto, if you are Jewish, and some sages have said this, the Below is the ONLY halacha there is.

Halacha is the Way, Believers are called followers of the Way Followers of halacha, LATER no offense to plagurism, but Judaism took and tried to apply halacha to a later codification, not the "Explanation" God gives to us to follow:
Mat 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
Mat 5:2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Mat 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Mat 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Mat 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Mat 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Mat 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
Mat 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
Mat 5:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
Mat 5:36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
Mat 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
Mat 5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Mat 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


So you ask me:

Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
Mat 5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Mat 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

I ask you:

How not?

 

[anisavta]

I will do all. I will pray fervently for Messiah to come and rescue us from ourselves. I will pray for my enemies that they will somehow see that they are being driven by hasatan and do tshuvah. I will forgive those who persecute me. And since I am Am Israel I include myself in with all those who are being tortured, harassed and murdered. I will pray for the rescue and restoration of my enemy's souls. I will stand with all the young men and women in the IDF who fight for freedom and security and I will support their defense of MY LAND.
Here is what Yeshua says.
Luk 22:35 And He said to them, When I sent you without purse and wallet and sandals, did you lack anything? And they said, Nothing.
Luk 22:36 And He said to them, But now, he who has a purse, let him take it, and likewise his wallet. And he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.
Luk 22:37 For I say to you that this which is written must yet be accomplished in Me, "And he was reckoned among the transgressors"; for the things concerning Me have an end.
Luk 22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And He said to them, It is enough.

I know if our home was broken into and I was in danger my husband who btw is a man of G~d would not sit and quote scripture at someone who was harming me. He would defend me. I take comfort in that. And if I am in Israel this next year (HaShem may it happen!) and I am in danger I have comfort in knowing my life will be defended.

 

[Tishri1]

When the social groups started I made one for prayer for Israel, please if you want to drop by and pray with us.....I forget to go there all the time so dont worry if you do to just come once in a while when you think of it k?

 

[Eben Abram]

I will do all. I will pray fervently for Messiah to come and rescue us from ourselves. I will pray for my enemies that they will somehow see that they are being driven by hasatan and do tshuvah. I will forgive those who persecute me. And since I am Am Israel I include myself in with all those who are being tortured, harassed and murdered. I will pray for the rescue and restoration of my enemy's souls. I will stand with all the young men and women in the IDF who fight for freedom and security and I will support their defense of MY LAND.
Here is what Yeshua says.
Luk 22:35 And He said to them, When I sent you without purse and wallet and sandals, did you lack anything? And they said, Nothing.
Luk 22:36 And He said to them, But now, he who has a purse, let him take it, and likewise his wallet. And he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.
Luk 22:37 For I say to you that this which is written must yet be accomplished in Me, "And he was reckoned among the transgressors"; for the things concerning Me have an end.
Luk 22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And He said to them, It is enough.

I know if our home was broken into and I was in danger my husband who btw is a man of G~d would not sit and quote scripture at someone who was harming me. He would defend me. I take comfort in that. And if I am in Israel this next year (HaShem may it happen!) and I am in danger I have comfort in knowing my life will be defended.

I am happy for you. That is for you, not me.

Shalom Alecheim

A rather famous true story came out recently from Zimbawe or Congo I forget which , but a Man watched his daughter raped, his wife shot and he left for dead by another black man.

A guard if I recall I will tell this true story terribly but the jist is HE hated and he plotted to murder the Guy that did it but in the end forgave the guard and let him live and the testimony and the ministry of that man is greater than if His wife and child had lived.

I am of my brother in this, you can take it to the bank, I would rather see death than to think some possibility still existed of a man who having in his suipidity and evil, wrecked havoc on my wife and if I had children kill children, then to take away the chance My G-d might Change the Man and save whom He wills.

It is NOT FOR MANY, it is not for ALL, IT WAS the First Secaond and THIRD century church of Jews who could do this, as Foxes Book of Mrtrys poves amoung others, but as for me?

Gee, I have seen the gun jam, I have heard the shot gun blast over my head, I saw a friend take the bag lunch I was supposed to pick up and blow his hand off in the Old City, I was told I would not live past thirty, I have been told I could never work and proved I could outwork and life the youth, I have seen the miraculous and I have seen the norm.

I do not say anisavta that you should do anything that God has not told you to do, I only say, some of us, not only know we are protected and when it is time to die, G-d will be with us, even as we know that G-d is with us whether we could stop or allow a travesty to occur.

I have stopped crimes and I have been told at times to step aside, it is the Spirit of G-d that must lead us, or we are merely, adjuticants of suppostional anlysis than a follower of a Living God and each of us does according to what He wants at that moment for the person and the time and the palce as HE chooses.

Eben

 

[ContraMundum]

Bottom line is Israel fights for her life and people sit around in the "coliseum" and gives the thumbs up or thumbs down to her.

BEST. COMMENT. EVER.

 

[Skeeterbug]

These people will hate Israel no matter what she does, so I find
they generally are not worth responding too.

it is really sad that the same mouth they praise G-d with is the same mouth they use to bash the jews and
Isreal. What I find so sad is they follow a Jewish messiah but yet hate jews. I for one am standing behind Isreal. people are down on them because they said enough is enough but yet no one says anything about all the rockets that hamas sent over to kill innocent civilians. Hamas needs to be taken out of gaza.

 

[ContraMundum]

Christianity is clear- it teaches "blessed are the peacemakers" and "turn the other cheek". Hamas and Hezbollah are not Christians and do not believe this Gospel doctrine. Instead, they teach the annihilation of an entire population to claim "back" the Islamic Waqf they call Palestine (A Roman name to boot). No Christian in his right mind has the authority to support that. Only a non-believer can do so.

That they are terrorists who hate Jesus Christ and desire the death, deportation and oppresion of 6 million people is not based on hearing Zionist propaganda, but based on the words of Hamas and Hezbollah themselves in their official documents. Their official platform is lived out in the lives of their followers, who have been duped by Islamic lies.

Now, what of those who blindly follow Israeli/Zionist extremists? I say the same to them- Jesus opposes them, because He opposes violence and He opposes oppression.

But for the rest of us- most Christians readily acknowledge the existance of the State of Israel, and most of their representative secular governments voted in favor of it. This is a fact of history. God has allowed it and brought it about as sovereign Lord of All. Israel exists. Find a new way to deal with it and pray for better leadership in Israel than we've seen to date. That is the cross we must all bear and the best way to respond according to the Gospel.

I say this not only as a Christian but as a Jew.

Trust me when I tell you that Jewish religious teachers believe the answer to this is to do more mitzvot (good deeds, godly devotions, following the Law etc.) and spread God's light to the world through these good deeds which spiritually overflow to the whole planet. Hamas and Hezbollah believe the answer is to kill Jews until Israel surrenders to Allah and they can all live under some fundie caliphate. Which side do you think has the most compatibility with the Gospel?

The Catholic Church has absolutely no official position on the matter at all. The only official position between the Church and Israel is in the Fundamental Agreement Between the Holy See and the State of Israel, which I have linked to here. Note Article 11.

The Church, like most Churches, acknowledges that the situation is sad and that there is suffering on all sides of the conflict.

Just because JPII tried to bring a message of peace to the Palestinians doesn't mean he agreed with them. Don't be so naive. He did likewise with Israeli leaders and Jewish religion.

You would be hard pressed to find any mainstream Church that supports Hamas, Hezbollah or the Palestinian people as opposed to Israel.

As I have pointed out most Churches have a neutral position on it and support the victims, regardless of their race or political position.

 

[Redheadedstepchild]

Mod Hat On

Thread has been moved from the main forum. Carry on.

Mod Hat Off​

 

[Ivy]

"But for the rest of us- most Christians readily acknowledge the existance of the State of Israel, and most of their representative secular governments voted in favor of it. This is a fact of history. God has allowed it and brought it about as sovereign Lord of All. Israel exists. Find a new way to deal with it and pray for better leadership in Israel than we've seen to date. That is the cross we must all bear and the best way to respond according to the Gospel.

I say this not only as a Christian but as a Jew.

Trust me when I tell you that Jewish religious teachers believe the answer to this is to do more mitzvot (good deeds, godly devotions, following the Law etc.) and spread God's light to the world through these good deeds which spiritually overflow to the whole planet. Hamas and Hezbollah believe the answer is to kill Jews until Israel surrenders to Allah and they can all live under some fundie caliphate. Which side do you think has the most compatibility with the Gospel?"



(Bold mine.)

The fact is that Palestinian propaganda routinely calls for the annihilation of Israel--"to drive every Jew into the sea". I haven't heard of any corresponding calls from Israel to drive every Palestinian into the sea or for their annihilation, have you?

And the fact is, as Contra said, annihilation is not the way of the Gospel, period.

 

[Steve Petersen]

BEST. COMMENT. EVER.

Come on over the the Politics section of the Society part of CF.

We could use a little moral support and plenty of strong arguments.

http://christianforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=181

 

[Blahoye Cobaka]

People who are so unabashedly anti-Israel live in a world of ignorance. It's hard to blame them. It's a world of Google scholarship, and Israel is losing that online battle. Most anti-Israel types aren't necessarily antisemitic, but they're influenced by antisemitic views. If they could only accompany a company on patrol in the West Bank and see what we saw: impoverished Palestinians being exploited by Palestinian "security" forces, being paid a pittance to hide terrorists or weapons in their homes; mosques and hospitals used as bomb storage facilities; scared Palestinians who are afraid of being labeled collaborators (and hence summarily executed) if they don't resist Israeli soldiers coming to search their home. It is very much a human tragedy, but it is not of Israel's making.

However, it's not the simple. Palestinians have fear of Israeli soldiers for a reason. There ARE cases of cruelty among hot-headed soldiers, and sometimes these morons get off with a slap on the wrist, if that. Every time something happens, you can bet it's circulated around Palestinian circles, increasing both fear and hatred. It's not widespread, but it happens more often than it should.

Many Palestinians do, in fact, want peace, but who will give it to them? It's not Israel's job, and they've been led by thugs and criminals into a downward spiral.