Cessationism

[The writer]

CESSATIONISM

The Cessationist view in Christian theology, affirms that the Gifts of the Holy Spirit (as referred to by the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10) ended (ceased) with the apostolic Church of the first century. Some views suggest, as we now have the Word of God (that is, the bible in print) it is now no longer necessary to have the gifts. Before we continue on this, I encourage you to read, not only 1 Corinthians 12:8-10, but to begin from the first verse of 1 Corinthians 12 and read all the way throughout the chapter, through to verse 31. If we be of the same discernment, you might agree that the chapter speaks of the spiritual Gifts, but also of the reason for the different members of the body of Christ, each having a needful role to play in ministering to the members.
This would mean that gifts in the body of Christ would still be beneficial
(assuming they are not being used for selfish or vain purposes).

Those with a conviction that the spiritual gifts ending with the apostolic Church,
(this would mean the death of the twelve disciples, according to the common belief of Cessationist thought) is based on 1 Corinthians 13:10 which states,
“but when that which is perfect is come then that which is in part shall be done away”.
Cessationist thought says that the bringing together of the Scripture is the fulfilling of that which is in part, being done away with. Now even if the gifts ended in the first century, then how could the translators of the 16th century bible and the reformers, rightly discern the manuscripts and Scriptures to show forth incorrect doctrine without having:
a) The word of wisdom (using spiritual wisdom by divine inspiration)
b) The discernment of spirits
(Two of the gifts described in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10).

Following on from verse 9 which is relating to prophecy and knowledge, let us consider whether or not this would be rightly dividing the Scriptures.

Perhaps it would be good for us to examine the spiritual gifts described in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10 and discern whether they have in truth, ceased. The gifts mentioned are:

1.The Word of Wisdom
2.The Word of knowledge
3.Faith
4.The gift of healing
5.The working of miracles
6.Prophecy
7.Discerning of spirits
8.diverse kinds of tongues
9.The interpretation of tongues

Gift 1 (the word of wisdom) must be still present in the Church, as this godly wisdom is needed to be able to interpret Scripture in light of Scripture (that is, one must be able to have divine wisdom to correctly understand and convey a spiritual maxim, not based on their human (natural) ability (which is independent of God’s divine wisdom) but as Peter affirms “knowing this, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation, for the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man, but holy men spake, as they were moved by the Holy Ghost (2 Peter 1:20-21). Therefore having the Scriptures is not
enough without the Wisdom of God. Jesus condemned the Pharisees for this very problem. They searched and knew the Scriptures (John 5:39), but they couldn’t find Jesus (without the Spirit).

How could Protestant reformers correct wrong teaching without “the word of wisdom”?
I have both personally experienced audible revelation from a Spirit (which I am convinced is the Holy Spirit) giving words of knowledge about a situation, a person, myself etc, manifesting God’s omnipotent, all-mighty knowledge of the hearts of men and women, I have also witnessed in fellowships this mysterious phenomena. To say this gift has ended, would take away the personal relationship of God, Jesus and the Comforter (the Holy Spirit) which was sent to be with us until the end of the world (Matthew 28:20) and in truth, forever.

These revelations have not always come out of the physical bible (though in agreement with the Word of God), but by the Holy Spirit which lives and abides in the hearts of those who believe in Jesus Christ.

If the gift of Faith has ceased, then how can people even believe in Jesus Christ?
(Considering we believe, by faith and we are saved by faith (Ephesians 2:8-9) the Gift of faith must then still be with the Church, otherwise we can’t believe!

The gift of healing must be present, otherwise, how can people who had diseases then received prayer and then got better still be healed? Should we say to them, “no sorry, that was a false prophet that healed you, you still have Tuberculosis?”

Prophecy must be still with us, because every time the Word of God gets preached, whether through print, preaching, a divine encounter which causes a person to follow Jesus, prophecy is being fulfilled.

It is true that the bible is the Word of God, but there is more. Paul says that the Word of God is not bound (2 Timothy 2:9). Even in a pub, a drug lab, a brothel, God’s Spirit is there and can see what everyone is doing, even through the person’s own eyes, if He so desires, otherwise, He is not Almighty and Omnipresent. God can even save a person without having someone preach.
By God’s wisdom, He can sometimes cause the unsaved person to minister to themselves when the Christian is obedient to the leading of the Holy Spirit in remaining quite and allowing God to judge the situation) . The Holy Spirit’s assignment is to convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgment (John 16:8). Yet the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power (1 Corinthians 4:20). A person’s silence can actually cause another person
to be convicted of sin and even a person’s lie can cause someone to acknowledge the righteousness of God (that is, the truth of God can abound, through a lie).

Micaiah the prophet of God lied to Ahab, which convicted Ahab that Micaiah was lying, thereby acknowledging truth (1 Kings 22). Hosea committed adultery, to convict Israel of their adulteress ways before God (as of a woman who breaks wedlock) (Hosea 3:1).

Also, if prophecy has ceased, why didn’t Paul and John give us a written interpretation of the exact identity of the antichrist? We are clearly going to have to have the word of wisdom and the Spirit of wisdom to understand the mystery of lawlessness. Why did the writer of Hebrews tell them that he couldn’t at that time, reveal the deeper things about the Cherubims of Glory, shadowing the mercy seat? (Hebrews 9:5) Why does it say that Christ will send two witnesses who will Prophecy for 1260 days and destroy those who come against them?
(Revelation 11:3-14).

It is important to understand that God’s Word is truth and that people ought to obey Him. But if God’s Spirit has stopped with the gifts, then nobody can be saved or understand heavenly mysteries, or discern spirits, as the Church would be void of divine wisdom. It is illogical to believe this.

Some may think that this is unimportant to believing in Christ, but let us consider
How dangerous it can be to presumptuously imply that God does not work through the gifts. Some ministers are teaching that tongues, prophecy, healings etc in these days, are of the devil and not of God. Jesus warns us that if we call the work of the Holy Spirit evil (blaspheme the Holy Spirit) we stand in danger of never having forgiveness (Mark 3:28-30).

The truth is that God can work through a true prophet (Jesus, Paul, Elijah) or a false prophet (Balaam, Pharaoh Necho). The miracle is to bear witness of the power of God and the testimony of the Lord Jesus Christ. If people choose to follow a prophet/ healer/ teacher etc, they stand in danger of being deceived (Jeremiah 17:5), but if a prophet is speaking the Word of God and people stand against them, they stand in danger of being judged (Revelation 11:3-14). We should not assume God does not or cannot work His gifts today. Paul actually warns Timothy of people who will have a form of godliness, but deny its power (2 Timothy 3:5), Its Greek word (dunamis) affirming that they will be denying the miraculous power/ ability of godliness, and advises him to turn away from such people.

God gave spiritual gifts even to the rebellious (Psalm 68:18), so that even the rebellious might know that God is true and might repent and believe on Him.
So likewise, even in these days of religious apostasy, God is still able to speak to us, both by His Word and by His Spirit. If a man was to be murdered by a thief who broke into his house and God wanted to save the man, would God have to find a Scriptural verse that helps the man understand the parallel and enlighten him to escape in time? Of course not, God is the God of the living.


May the Lord Jesus bless His people and give you understanding.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

watching

 

[franky67]

CESSATIONISM

The Cessationist view in Christian theology, affirms that the Gifts of the Holy Spirit (as referred to by the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10) ended (ceased) with the apostolic Church of the first century. Some views suggest, as we now have the Word of God (that is, the bible in print) it is now no longer necessary to have the gifts. Before we continue on this, I encourage you to read, not only 1 Corinthians 12:8-10, but to begin from the first verse of 1 Corinthians 12 and read all the way throughout the chapter, through to verse 31. If we be of the same discernment, you might agree that the chapter speaks of the spiritual Gifts, but also of the reason for the different members of the body of Christ, each having a needful role to play in ministering to the members.
This would mean that gifts in the body of Christ would still be beneficial
(assuming they are not being used for selfish or vain purposes).

Those with a conviction that the spiritual gifts ending with the apostolic Church,
(this would mean the death of the twelve disciples, according to the common belief of Cessationist thought) is based on 1 Corinthians 13:10 which states,
“but when that which is perfect is come then that which is in part shall be done away”.
Cessationist thought says that the bringing together of the Scripture is the fulfilling of that which is in part, being done away with. Now even if the gifts ended in the first century, then how could the translators of the 16th century bible and the reformers, rightly discern the manuscripts and Scriptures to show forth incorrect doctrine without having:
a) The word of wisdom (using spiritual wisdom by divine inspiration)
b) The discernment of spirits
(Two of the gifts described in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10).

Following on from verse 9 which is relating to prophecy and knowledge, let us consider whether or not this would be rightly dividing the Scriptures.

Perhaps it would be good for us to examine the spiritual gifts described in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10 and discern whether they have in truth, ceased. The gifts mentioned are:

1.The Word of Wisdom
2.The Word of knowledge
3.Faith
4.The gift of healing
5.The working of miracles
6.Prophecy
7.Discerning of spirits
8.diverse kinds of tongues
9.The interpretation of tongues

Gift 1 (the word of wisdom) must be still present in the Church, as this godly wisdom is needed to be able to interpret Scripture in light of Scripture (that is, one must be able to have divine wisdom to correctly understand and convey a spiritual maxim, not based on their human (natural) ability (which is independent of God’s divine wisdom) but as Peter affirms “knowing this, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation, for the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man, but holy men spake, as they were moved by the Holy Ghost (2 Peter 1:20-21). Therefore having the Scriptures is not
enough without the Wisdom of God. Jesus condemned the Pharisees for this very problem. They searched and knew the Scriptures (John 5:39), but they couldn’t find Jesus (without the Spirit).

How could Protestant reformers correct wrong teaching without “the word of wisdom”?
I have both personally experienced audible revelation from a Spirit (which I am convinced is the Holy Spirit) giving words of knowledge about a situation, a person, myself etc, manifesting God’s omnipotent, all-mighty knowledge of the hearts of men and women, I have also witnessed in fellowships this mysterious phenomena. To say this gift has ended, would take away the personal relationship of God, Jesus and the Comforter (the Holy Spirit) which was sent to be with us until the end of the world (Matthew 28:20) and in truth, forever.

These revelations have not always come out of the physical bible (though in agreement with the Word of God), but by the Holy Spirit which lives and abides in the hearts of those who believe in Jesus Christ.

If the gift of Faith has ceased, then how can people even believe in Jesus Christ?
(Considering we believe, by faith and we are saved by faith (Ephesians 2:8-9) the Gift of faith must then still be with the Church, otherwise we can’t believe!

The gift of healing must be present, otherwise, how can people who had diseases then received prayer and then got better still be healed? Should we say to them, “no sorry, that was a false prophet that healed you, you still have Tuberculosis?”

Prophecy must be still with us, because every time the Word of God gets preached, whether through print, preaching, a divine encounter which causes a person to follow Jesus, prophecy is being fulfilled.

It is true that the bible is the Word of God, but there is more. Paul says that the Word of God is not bound (2 Timothy 2:9). Even in a pub, a drug lab, a brothel, God’s Spirit is there and can see what everyone is doing, even through the person’s own eyes, if He so desires, otherwise, He is not Almighty and Omnipresent. God can even save a person without having someone preach.
By God’s wisdom, He can sometimes cause the unsaved person to minister to themselves when the Christian is obedient to the leading of the Holy Spirit in remaining quite and allowing God to judge the situation) . The Holy Spirit’s assignment is to convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgment (John 16:8). Yet the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power (1 Corinthians 4:20). A person’s silence can actually cause another person
to be convicted of sin and even a person’s lie can cause someone to acknowledge the righteousness of God (that is, the truth of God can abound, through a lie).

Micaiah the prophet of God lied to Ahab, which convicted Ahab that Micaiah was lying, thereby acknowledging truth (1 Kings 22). Hosea committed adultery, to convict Israel of their adulteress ways before God (as of a woman who breaks wedlock) (Hosea 3:1).

Also, if prophecy has ceased, why didn’t Paul and John give us a written interpretation of the exact identity of the antichrist? We are clearly going to have to have the word of wisdom and the Spirit of wisdom to understand the mystery of lawlessness. Why did the writer of Hebrews tell them that he couldn’t at that time, reveal the deeper things about the Cherubims of Glory, shadowing the mercy seat? (Hebrews 9:5) Why does it say that Christ will send two witnesses who will Prophecy for 1260 days and destroy those who come against them?
(Revelation 11:3-14).

It is important to understand that God’s Word is truth and that people ought to obey Him. But if God’s Spirit has stopped with the gifts, then nobody can be saved or understand heavenly mysteries, or discern spirits, as the Church would be void of divine wisdom. It is illogical to believe this.

Some may think that this is unimportant to believing in Christ, but let us consider
How dangerous it can be to presumptuously imply that God does not work through the gifts. Some ministers are teaching that tongues, prophecy, healings etc in these days, are of the devil and not of God. Jesus warns us that if we call the work of the Holy Spirit evil (blaspheme the Holy Spirit) we stand in danger of never having forgiveness (Mark 3:28-30).

The truth is that God can work through a true prophet (Jesus, Paul, Elijah) or a false prophet (Balaam, Pharaoh Necho). The miracle is to bear witness of the power of God and the testimony of the Lord Jesus Christ. If people choose to follow a prophet/ healer/ teacher etc, they stand in danger of being deceived (Jeremiah 17:5), but if a prophet is speaking the Word of God and people stand against them, they stand in danger of being judged (Revelation 11:3-14). We should not assume God does not or cannot work His gifts today. Paul actually warns Timothy of people who will have a form of godliness, but deny its power (2 Timothy 3:5), Its Greek word (dunamis) affirming that they will be denying the miraculous power/ ability of godliness, and advises him to turn away from such people.

God gave spiritual gifts even to the rebellious (Psalm 68:18), so that even the rebellious might know that God is true and might repent and believe on Him.
So likewise, even in these days of religious apostasy, God is still able to speak to us, both by His Word and by His Spirit. If a man was to be murdered by a thief who broke into his house and God wanted to save the man, would God have to find a Scriptural verse that helps the man understand the parallel and enlighten him to escape in time? Of course not, God is the God of the living.


May the Lord Jesus bless His people and give you understanding.

Cessationism is the thief who steals the "children's bread"

John says in ch 10, the thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy

 

[Christos Anesti]

deleted

 

[whatfor]

Interesting thread, subscribing.

 

[R_A]

Part of the central arguments for cessationism is simply empirical: not only do those who profess the gifts (e.g. of healing) literally do not have them, and have been shown to be unhinged charlatans one and all; but even those 'gifts' such as tongues make them sound literally like demons. If the Holy Spirit speaks through us, then why can't those voices sound ennobled and angelic?

Why do these tongue-speakers produce horrific, guttural sounds that would likely come from any horror movie? "By their fruits ye shall know them". If you're surrounded by charlatans, and have sounds from a horror movie coming out of your mouth, I would suggest rechecking the 'theory' behind it.

The fact that no Christian has spoken in tongues after the 1st century AD, and that there were no references to guttural sounds among the Apostles (but rather probably ennobled and angelic, everything we think of as holy), should be an indication that the Charismatic who attempts to practice this now is simply an innovator possessing a view no Christian has ever held. From the guttural sounds of his voice, and the charlatanism in his community, he should be able to deduce the original source of his innovation.

 

[ittarter]

Cessationism is silly. Miracles either never happened, or they're still happening. Dispensationalism is a nineteenth century phenomenon feeding on the working class desire for a better life while encouraging them to live moral lives despite being exploited in every way imaginable.

Unfortunately the beast hasn't completely died yet. Cessationism is a sad compromise that makes less sense than either alternative I mentioned above.

The way to argue contra cessationism is not to try and make the case that miracles happen these days -- skeptics will never accept any of the supposed instances you can cite, because they prefer an unknown cause to divine intervention. No, the way to counter cessationism is to understand it stands or falls with dispensational theology and therefore to argue against dispensationalism instead.

 

[josephearl]

a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest... art garfunkel and some dude named simon

 

[Biblicist]

Since the mid-90’s cessationism has been removed as a serious form of theology by a number of academics such as with Gordon Fee, DA Carson and others.

The final nail in its coffin was with 1Co 13:10 where numerous academics from a number of persuasions, be they Charismatic or Evangelical and both from within Arminianism and Calvinism demonstrated that the text could only apply to the coming of the Kingdom of Heaven. Even before this happened those who held to the cessationist worldview could not agree if this passage applied to the death of the last Apostle or the completion of the Canon of Scripture.

As cessationism either rose or fell with the meaning of this verse, now that most astute cessationists have apparently begrudgingly accepted that it refers to the coming Kingdom many have simply allowed the matter to lay quiet. Providing no-one asks any difficult questions within their assemblies regarding the operations of the Spirit they are more than prepared to take a neutral position. If no-one asks then they don’t have to tell which in their line of thinking will help to maintain whatever status-quo’s may reside within their congregations.

 

[OzSpen]

RA,

The fact that no Christian has spoken in tongues after the 1st century AD, and that there were no references to guttural sounds among the Apostles (but rather probably ennobled and angelic, everything we think of as holy), should be an indication that the Charismatic who attempts to practice this now is simply an innovator possessing a view no Christian has ever held. From the guttural sounds of his voice, and the charlatanism in his community, he should be able to deduce the original source of his innovation.

Have you been to every church in the world since the first century to guarantee that no Christian has ever spoken in tongues? Of course you haven't. This is your theological interpretation and it could be refuted many times over by many Christians around the world today who do speak in tongues.

I am one of these. Are you calling me a charlatan?

In Christ, Oz

 

[cajunhillbilly]

Cessationism is silly. Miracles either never happened, or they're still happening. Dispensationalism is a nineteenth century phenomenon feeding on the working class desire for a better life while encouraging them to live moral lives despite being exploited in every way imaginable.

Unfortunately the beast hasn't completely died yet. Cessationism is a sad compromise that makes less sense than either alternative I mentioned above.

The way to argue contra cessationism is not to try and make the case that miracles happen these days -- skeptics will never accept any of the supposed instances you can cite, because they prefer an unknown cause to divine intervention. No, the way to counter cessationism is to understand it stands or falls with dispensational theology and therefore to argue against dispensationalism instead.

WRONG WRONG WRONG. Reformed theology also teaches the gifts have ceased and they are NOT dispensational. To say that cessationaism is only held by dispensationalists is to show just how little one knows about various schools of theology. Westminster Seminary, Reformed Seminary, etc all hold to cessationism, but don't you dare call them dispensationalist. They attack dispensational theology with all they have.

 

[Hismessenger]

The problem is there is too much focus on the gifts and not enough focus on the giver of the gifts who is responsible for all the manifestation which men claim as theirs, the Holy Spirit. You are only able to operate in The Holy Spirit if 1. there is true submission to him and 2 there is a pure heart for God. Those who claim the gifts evidently don't know who they are dealing with. I always here that this one or that one has a greater anointing which couldn't be further from the truth. There is only one Holy Spirit and it is He ho brings forth the gifts as we submit ourselve's to Him. It matters not who you are it is what he wants to do through you as you yield to His leading. The gifts are still here but the operation of them is through the Holy Spirit. No one can claim the gift without the Holy Spirit's input.

hismessenger

 

[student ad x]

A thought from the peanut gallery:

It seems the continuationists (special gifts) is at the very least equal in error. It would not be the first time the Lord used a special gift for His purpose, then removed it when the purpose was fulfilled.

Then the LORD came down in the cloud and spoke to him; and He took of the Spirit who was upon him and placed Him upon the seventy elders. And when the Spirit rested upon them, they prophesied. But they did not do it again. Numbers 11:25 NAS95

The special gifts seem to be for what Scripture reveals...... to establish the new covenant (fulfillment -Joel 2/Acts 2) and the ministry of reconciliation, heralding the Gospel to foreign nations over a period of time in the 1st century.

 

[ittarter]

WRONG WRONG WRONG. Reformed theology also teaches the gifts have ceased and they are NOT dispensational. To say that cessationaism is only held by dispensationalists is to show just how little one knows about various schools of theology. Westminster Seminary, Reformed Seminary, etc all hold to cessationism, but don't you dare call them dispensationalist. They attack dispensational theology with all they have.

That is an important point of clarification. Thank you for bringing it up.

However, I did not say that cessationism is only held by dispensationalists. The center of my observation does not relate to who believes what but a point of the nature of the belief itself, namely, cessationism. To say that miracles used to happen but no longer do is dispensational-eque thinking.

I am unaware of any "Reformer" or Calvinist prior to the dispensational movement who taught such things. If I'm wrong on this, I'll be happy to admit it. We're all learning here.

 

[cajunhillbilly]

Read the Puritans. They did not believe in the continuation of the sign gifts. And the vast majority of the early Reformers did not believe in the continuation of the word gifts either. Luther attacked a group that taught the continuation of prophecy and said they were deluded and had no idea what the Gospel was all about.

 

[ittarter]

Read the Puritans. They did not believe in the continuation of the sign gifts. And the vast majority of the early Reformers did not believe in the continuation of the word gifts either. Luther attacked a group that taught the continuation of prophecy and said they were deluded and had no idea what the Gospel was all about.

It would be interesting to know their basis for those assertions.

"Sign gifts" and "word gifts" hardly span the entire continuum of miracles, wouldn't you say? I'd be very surprised to hear that the bulk of pre-nineteenth century Reformers, Puritans or Calvinists disavowed miraculous healing, discerning spirits, etc. and it would be nice for you to provide some substantiation for your lumping together of all Puritans, which to me is quite a varied group, yet ironically one which is associated with exorcisms -- definitely a kind of healing and a "sign" as far as the gospels are concerned.

I suspect so many Protestants reject "word gifts" because of the closed canon and their rejection, generally speaking, of any other word-based spiritual authority in matters of doctrine and revelation. However, it is also true that many Reformers, e.g. Calvin (see here), spoke in tongues and recognized miraculous healings in their own time as being of divine origin. Luther, for example, claimed that his friend Philipp Melanchthon had been miraculously healed.

Anyway, this all to say, I'm not going for it. Maybe you're just overstating your case. There are, after all, different degrees of cessationism, and I am referring to pure cessationism (all gifts, not just word gifts or sign gifts, have ceased), which, I maintain, is a product of dispensationalist thinking.

 

[cajunhillbilly]

read the comments below the article. I agree with this response

) This is the first time that I have ever read such a claim, and while I am not a 'Calvin scholar', I am reasonably well read on his life and also in the tongues debate. I seriously have my doubts about the claim but obviously would not want to live in denial if it were true.

2) Even if it were true, Calvin obviously did not make a great spiritual deal about it. As far as your report goes, he confided on his death bed to Beza, his very close associate and friend.

3) Indeed, his immediate fear was that he was used the accursed language of Canaan which doesn't seem to have to wrapped his soul in spiritual ecstasy. Even, if by some strange phenonema, he had employed such a tongue as he feared, yet it is evident that he did not seek it and, as in #2, he did not promote it.

None of us know what a day might bring forth. Perhaps tomorrow, Calvin's experience might be mine. If so, I hope that I too would subject it to the teaching of Scripture and accept or reject, rather than bend Scripture to suit my experience.

 

[cajunhillbilly]

And, by the way, I never said that I was a cessationist. Only that Reformed schools, who definitely are NOT dispensational, teach it. As do most Lutherans schools. Again, not dispensationaists. I take the approach advocated by the CMA church I attended long ago- seek not, forbid not. Test all things by Scripture. And I believe God can heal and have seen Him heal in answer to humble, believing prayer. But that is a far cry from the "show" put on by a lot of Charismatic "faith healers".

 

[Keachian]

Why do these tongue-speakers produce horrific, guttural sounds that would likely come from any horror movie? "By their fruits ye shall know them". If you're surrounded by charlatans, and have sounds from a horror movie coming out of your mouth, I would suggest rechecking the 'theory' behind it.

Why does guttural automatically mean that it is a horrible sound, I think it is only because you have been exposed to these horror movies that you have made this association.

A thought from the peanut gallery:

It seems the continuationists (special gifts) is at the very least equal in error. It would not be the first time the Lord used a special gift for His purpose, then removed it when the purpose was fulfilled.

Then the LORD came down in the cloud and spoke to him; and He took of the Spirit who was upon him and placed Him upon the seventy elders. And when the Spirit rested upon them, they prophesied. But they did not do it again. Numbers 11:25 NAS95

The special gifts seem to be for what Scripture reveals...... to establish the new covenant (fulfillment -Joel 2/Acts 2) and the ministry of reconciliation, heralding the Gospel to foreign nations over a period of time in the 1st century.

But do we have the same Holy Spirit that was there in the 1st century? And yes I agree with you that God does take away gifts when they no longer serve his purpose. I have translated tongues a total of once, this was in order that someone may be blessed through prayer for his situation.

 

[ittarter]

read the comments below the article. I agree with this response

And the next comment refers to a Witherington article that also discusses this event in Calvin's life. See his “What Calvin Gets Right,” Christianity Today, September 9, 2009, pp. 33-34.

I never said you said you were a cessationist.

Nor have I denied that modern Reformed or Lutheran schools teach cessationism. Is it such a stretch to think they might have been influenced to some degree by dispensationalist thinking? Not really.