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Cessationism - Part 17

Discussion in 'Pentecostal & Assemblies of God' started by Saint Steven, Jul 14, 2018.

  1. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Here again is the sixth and final point the Cessationists claim prove that
    the gift of tongues have already ceased. The whole list is found on post #2.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    6) Current observation confirms that the miracle of tongues has ceased. If the gift were still available today, there would be no need for missionaries to attend language school. Missionaries would be able to travel to any country and speak any language fluently, just as the apostles were able to speak in Acts 2. As for the miracle gift of healing, we see in Scripture that healing was associated with the ministry of Jesus and the apostles (Luke 9:1-2). And we see that as the era of the apostles drew to a close, healing, like tongues, became less frequent. The Apostle Paul, who raised Eutychus from the dead (Acts 20:9-12), did not heal Epaphroditus (Philippians 2:25-27), Trophimus (2 Timothy 4:20), Timothy (1 Timothy 5:23), or even himself (2 Corinthians 12:7-9). The reasons for Paul’s “failures to heal” are 1) the gift was never intended to make every Christian well, but to authenticate apostleship; and 2) the authority of the apostles had been sufficiently proved, making further miracles unnecessary.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    It will require more than one post to address this mess. Let's work through it one point at a time.

    Here's the next one.
    "The Apostle Paul, who raised Eutychus from the dead (Acts 20:9-12),
    did not heal Epaphroditus (Philippians 2:25-27), Trophimus (2 Timothy 4:20),
    Timothy (1 Timothy 5:23), or even himself (2 Corinthians 12:7-9)."

    How would you answer the Cessationists?

    This statement of the Cessationists is like a flag ship for their ignorance.
    In reference to healing they state what the Apostle Paul could and could not do.

    Healing is a partnership between God and those who are willing to pray for the sick.

    Ultimately it is God's decision whether to heal or not to heal.
    And he can certainly do it without our help.

    100 percent of the people we don't pray for don't get healed.
    If you want to better that percentage then pray for the sick.

    If only 10 percent of the sick you prayed for were healed, would it be worth your while? It would be to those who were healed.

    James 5:16
    Therefore confess your sins to each other
    and pray for each other so that you may be healed.
    The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.

    When did the Apostle Paul say that spiritual gifts would be needed until?

    1 Corinthians 1:7- 8
    Therefore you do not lack
    any spiritual gift
    as you eagerly wait
    for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.
    8 He will also keep you firm to the end,
    so that you will be blameless on the
    day of our Lord Jesus Christ.


    Therefore, you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly await the return of our Lord Jesus Christ.
     
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  2. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Doesn't that assumption rest on the false premise that all "true" tongues is a known language? AFAIC tell, that only happened once in Acts 2.
     
  3. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    What specifically are you referring to? What "assumption"?
     
  4. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    The assumption that tongues as a charismatic gift has ceased.
     
  5. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Right. That's what Cessationism is.
    Did you read the earlier articles? This is part 17 of a series.
    I have at least one more to go to complete the series.
     
  6. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    No. I have been in Israel for 2 weeks. I think I saw only one earlier post.
     
  7. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    When I saw the title on the new threads list, I thought it was from a cessationist.

    Reminds me of the time a friend and I took on the local Church of Christ on this issue, back about 1971 or 2.
     
  8. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    How did it go?
    Was it a formal debate? Or an informal discussion?
    Did you go to them, or did they come to you?
     
  9. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Lol!!!

    It was a bible study for their youth choir. The friend (now a pastor) and I were invited to tag along by others in that congregation who were friends and classmates.

    When they got to 1 Cor 12 & 13, they tried to teach that all that was done in the first century. While my friend looked up scriptures for me, I tore down their arguments point by point. The youth pastor called in an elder, who sai I really didn't understand their argument; so I laid it out. He said I explained it better than he could have. Then I tore it apart, point by point. He was shocked.

    They did not actually tell us to leave, but made it uncomfortable.
     
  10. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    If you get a chance, you should breeze through my posts to see the points I bring.
    I would be curious to read anything that you could add to the study. Thanks.

    Typically the top half of each post is the boilerplate stuff that makes it a self-standing piece. You can skip down to the meat below.
     
  11. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't know where to discuss this, (possibly a new thread in a non Charismatic forum)? But what are your views on tongues being distributed only by the apostles after the two outpourings? And ending when the apostles died?
     
  12. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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  13. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Happy to discuss that. Let's be clear on which two outpourings.
    Do you mean Pentecost for the Jews, and the house of Cornelius for the gentiles? Or what?
     
  14. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I was thinking of the Jewish outpouring on Pentecost. And the gentile outpouring 7 years later at Cornelius' house. With all New Covenant believers receiving the Holy Spirit as promised. But the gifts being distributed exclusively through the Apostles' hands after the two outpourings. Thanks for your thoughts.
     
  15. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Did I miss the discussion?
    1) I didn't present my thoughts yet.
    2) I thought you wanted to take this outside this area.
    Like: Controversial Christian Theology
     
  16. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'll put some things together and open a thread in Controversial Christian Theology using Tongues in the heading.
     
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