Ceremony

[Resha Caner]

Of course a wedding is not the only ceremony societies perform, but the recent discussions on marriage seem to highlight a curious aspect of ceremony.

Most responses seem to think of marriage as only involving 2 people, yet they also often reference a desire for some mystical unnamed quality of connecting to the other person.

Why is marriage (or a wedding) necessary for this? What elements make up a ceremony or ritual?

 

[quatona]

Of course a wedding is not the only ceremony societies perform, but the recent discussions on marriage seem to highlight a curious aspect of ceremony.

Most responses seem to think of marriage as only involving 2 people, yet they also often reference a desire for some mystical unnamed quality of connecting to the other person.

Why is marriage (or a wedding) necessary for this? What elements make up a ceremony or ritual?

I wasn´t aware that these discussion about marriage were about the ceremony.
I think the institution "marriage" and the marriage ceremony are two entirely different things, for purposes of these questions.

 

[Resha Caner]

I wasn´t aware that these discussion about marriage were about the ceremony.
I think the institution "marriage" and the marriage ceremony are two entirely different things, for purposes of these questions.

They are different things, and part of the discussion did focus on the wedding.

 

[quatona]

They are different things, and part of the discussion did focus on the wedding.

Are your questions about the wedding or about the marriage?

 

[RDKirk]

Of course a wedding is not the only ceremony societies perform, but the recent discussions on marriage seem to highlight a curious aspect of ceremony.

Most responses seem to think of marriage as only involving 2 people, yet they also often reference a desire for some mystical unnamed quality of connecting to the other person.

Why is marriage (or a wedding) necessary for this? What elements make up a ceremony or ritual?

The ceremony is a social announcement. As an example, a soldier is awarded a medal. His commander could merely walk by his desk and hand it to him, but the purpose of the ceremony is to announce to the rest of the unit and the general pubic not only that this soldier was awarded a medal but also that the unit has such meritorious soldiers within it.

The ceremony is for both the individual and for the society. It is a public reinforcement of the values of the society and points toward confidence in the future of the society.

 

[Resha Caner]

Are your questions about the wedding or about the marriage?

Primarily the wedding, but it also touches on what role the wedding might play in initiating the marriage. And, the discussion need not be restricted to just the wedding ceremony.

 

[Resha Caner]

The ceremony is for both the individual and for the society. It is a public reinforcement of the values of the society and points toward confidence in the future of the society.

Yes, I can see that. So now the solider with the medal becomes the role model.

One might call this an "awards" ceremony, but are there other kinds?

 

[prov1810]

A ceremony for marriage wasn't always considered necessary in the ancient world:

In Ancient Greece, no specific civil ceremony was required for the creation of a marriage – only mutual agreement and the fact that the couple must regard each other as husband and wife accordingly.

From the early Christian era (30 to 325 CE), marriage was thought of as primarily a private matter, with no uniform religious or other ceremony being required.​

Marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Today, the average wedding in America costs thirty thousand dollars. This does not include the honeymoon.

 

[Resha Caner]

Today, the average wedding in America costs thirty thousand dollars. This does not include the honeymoon.

Yes. It's always important to distinguish a ceremony from a party.

 

[prov1810]

Weddings are a very big deal in the West because of the persistent myth that romance is the key to happiness. There seems to be no greater emotional obsession in our culture. Anyone with such a lovingly passionate investment in God or country is considered weird. We don't have existentially serious commitments in a time of doubt. But we do have the childish need to be loved and all the screaming, crying drama that goes with it.

 

[RDKirk]

Yes, I can see that. So now the solider with the medal becomes the role model.

One might call this an "awards" ceremony, but are there other kinds?

Not a role model, but a celebration of the kind of members that society has within it. It's as much a "Rah us!" event as it is a "Rah him!" event.

A wedding ceremony is an observance, validation, and celebration of the continuation of the values of that society. This is the reason why Jewish wedding ceremonies and Hindu wedding ceremonies, for instance, still exist in the US. It validates those particular societies.

 

[Paradoxum]

I'm not sure I understand the question.

I think a wedding is good because it makes clear a long term commitment to a relationship in a special way. If you are in a relationship (even a long term one) you can still just break up.

Marriage seems to imply that you two are in it together for the long run, perhaps till the end. Ceremony and a special name for the relationship can help cement that commitment, I think.

 

[Resha Caner]

Weddings are a very big deal in the West because of the persistent myth that romance is the key to happiness. There seems to be no greater emotional obsession in our culture. Anyone with such a lovingly passionate investment in God or country is considered weird. We don't have existentially serious commitments in a time of doubt. But we do have the childish need to be loved and all the screaming, crying drama that goes with it.

I would agree with you, but I don't think this is restricted to the West. I've been to wedding celebrations for some Hindu coworkers ... their weddings are pretty lavish as well. And don't forget the wedding at Cana.

 

[Resha Caner]

Marriage seems to imply that you two are in it together for the long run, perhaps till the end. Ceremony and a special name for the relationship can help cement that commitment, I think.

Odd that we would agree, but I said something very similar earlier, and no one seemed to get it. I noted that weddings have witnesses, and so they (and those they represent) also play a role in the agreement.

 

[RDKirk]

Odd that we would agree, but I said something very similar earlier, and no one seemed to get it. I noted that weddings have witnesses, and so they (and those they represent) also play a role in the agreement.

That's why I keep saying the ceremony is for the benefit of the society, not just the couple.

 

[LOVEthroughINTELLECT]

Weddings today in the U.S. seem to reinforce cultural elements such as conspicuous consumption, perpetual economic growth, insatiability, etc.

The wedding ceremony/party seems to be as important as the marriage to a lot of people.

The theology of some Christians says that marriage begins with sexual intercourse. Therefore, there is no such thing as premarital sex. Anyway, that is far from a wedding ceremony/party having anything to do with it.

Some Christians say that they want to have a big wedding, a funeral service, etc. because it is one more opportunity for people to hear the Gospel and be saved.

 

[Inkfingers]

Of course a wedding is not the only ceremony societies perform, but the recent discussions on marriage seem to highlight a curious aspect of ceremony.

Most responses seem to think of marriage as only involving 2 people, yet they also often reference a desire for some mystical unnamed quality of connecting to the other person.

Why is marriage (or a wedding) necessary for this? What elements make up a ceremony or ritual?

'How but in custom and in ceremony are innocence and beauty born' (WB Yeats)

Ceremony, formality, takes us out of ourselves, our appetites and our desires. Such is the means of civilising mankind out of the animal, teaching us to conform rather than unleash. This is sadly a lesson that is increasingly lost on a casual generation.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Most responses seem to think of marriage as only involving 2 people, yet they also often reference a desire for some mystical unnamed quality of connecting to the other person.

Love and commitment are neither mystical nor unnamed.

 

[Paradoxum]

Odd that we would agree, but I said something very similar earlier, and no one seemed to get it. I noted that weddings have witnesses, and so they (and those they represent) also play a role in the agreement.

Why is it odd we agree?

That's why I keep saying the ceremony is for the benefit of the society, not just the couple.

What is why you say it's for the benefit of society? I'm not sure I agree.

 

[RDKirk]

Why is it odd we agree?



What is why you say it's for the benefit of society? I'm not sure I agree.

The ceremony is a social announcement. As an example, a soldier is awarded a medal. His commander could merely walk by his desk and hand it to him, but the purpose of the ceremony is to announce to the rest of the unit and the general pubic not only that this soldier was awarded a medal but also that the unit has such meritorious soldiers within it.

The ceremony is for both the individual and for the society. It is a public reinforcement of the values of the society and points toward confidence in the future of the society.

A wedding ceremony is an observance, validation, and celebration of the continuation of the values of that society. This is the reason why Jewish wedding ceremonies and Hindu wedding ceremonies, for instance, still exist in the US. It validates those particular societies.