Census Thread??

[Born to Watch]

PS: Is Born-to-Watch a new avatar for Monarchist/Two Cents/Gilly, or is that level of venom common among Australian christians frequenting this forum?

Whats up busker?
Dont you like being challenged?
Dont you like the gospel message?
Dislike being called out by others?
I get the feeling you expect everybody everywhere to fawn over your every word, that you have an expectation that you are correct in everything you say. Wrong Busker.
Why does an atheist come to a Christian web site to preach?

 

[TheDag]

Hello TheDag
It has popped through my electronic mail slot in two forms to date, one trying to scare me with all caps and ranting about mosques, and another version trying to play on my fondness for school Easter parades, which I think is the form cited in the original thread about the campaign on this forum, which went missing.
The text varies, but is essentially:

[/color]

The all caps version appeared on the One Nation Party WA website, but they appear to have taken it down since someoned pointed out to them that providing false information on the census is illegal, as is encouraging other people to do so.
Similar themes have been expressed in the letters sections of my local newspapers, though whether this is a concerted campaign of misinformation or independent acts of lying an hypocrisy is unclear.
Cheerio
Matt

PS: Is Born-to-Watch a new avatar for Monarchist/Two Cents/Gilly, or is that level of venom common among Australian christians frequenting this forum?

Ok well I personally do not count One Nation as a christian party although individual members may be or may claim to be christian. I see that kind of thing all the time and it most certainly is not limited to christians. My opinion is that far too often the name of christianity is used by people who have no connection to faith in Jesus. A good example is pretty much every politician used to always claim to be a member of a church. However the majority of them never set foot in a church for regular services. That contributes to christianity being dragged through the mud. All I can do is try to be the best example I can.


As to your question about Born to watch I don't think it is appropiate for me to answer and I try to judge individuals by their behaviour rather than putting a label on groups. I can assure you I have come across some very arrogant athiests.

 

[TheDag]

Dags,
In buskers original post on the original thread he stated it was wrong to lie.
Simple.
Dags go ask Busker what he said.

I asked you for proof because you made the claim. Even if he did say lying is wrong that is still not demanding that people follow his morales. So you still have not backed up your claim.

In all my dealings with busker on this forum he has never once demanded I change to his views. He has tried to convince me of his views on matters which is fine. That is not demanding anything though.

 

[Worldslaziestbusker]

Whats up busker?
Dont you like being challenged?

I don't mind being challenged. I don't find you challenging, just unpleasant.

Dont you like the gospel message?

No. I find it inconsistent, prejudiced and unnecessarily divisive.

Dislike being called out by others?

Since you're calling me on things I haven't done, I don't have a problem with dealing with your accusations. Your attempts at villification are very similar to the disingenuous messages I've been receiving telling me to tick christian on the census.

I get the feeling you expect everybody everywhere to fawn over your every word, that you have an expectation that you are correct in everything you say. Wrong Busker.

No, but I expect to be treated with civility and to have my rights as a citizen of Australia respected. That's all I have ever asked for on this forum, and I've copped a lot of abuse for that. Did you formerly post on this forum as Monarchist?

Why does an atheist come to a Christian web site to preach?

To ask why christians are lying and calling on others to lie in ways that could affect our community.
I don't care what you believe, I just want your beliefs kept out of my life and the lives of the people I care about. You seem to want to inflict your beliefs on me, so it's your position that's causing the friction, BTW.

 

[Born to Watch]

I asked you for proof because you made the claim. Even if he did say lying is wrong that is still not demanding that people follow his morales. So you still have not backed up your claim.

In all my dealings with busker on this forum he has never once demanded I change to his views. He has tried to convince me of his views on matters which is fine. That is not demanding anything though.

Unfortunately Dags the thread has gone, so I cant.
As I stated, go ask busker.

 

[Born to Watch]

I don't mind being challenged. I don't find you challenging, just unpleasant.

Yeah I know exactly how you feel, and yet I am on a Christian forum and so are you.

No. I find it inconsistent, prejudiced and unnecessarily divisive.

As, obviously I find your moral stance.
Tell me Busker what do you hate about Jesus?

Since you're calling me on things I haven't done, I don't have a problem with dealing with your accusations. Your attempts at villification are very similar to the disingenuous messages I've been receiving telling me to tick christian on the census.

I never sent you a message. I received that email from atheists coincidentally, maybe they were agnostics, who can tell the difference.
Vilification, you poor oppressed person. So tell me, are you feeling vilified because you are being questioned on your moral standard. How interesting.
I feel vilified on a Christian forum because of the atheist antagonism.

No, but I expect to be treated with civility and to have my rights as a citizen of Australia respected. That's all I have ever asked for on this forum, and I've copped a lot of abuse for that. Did you formerly post on this forum as Monarchist?

You come here to question us and/or me, and I question you, well, more to counter the atheist preaching. As I see it.
Tell me busker, Argy, BB, et all. Why cant you allow me and my friends and family to believe and teach creation. Does it hurt, kill, damage.
You are welcome to believe and preach evolution, thats fine.
Why cant I do what I want.
Looks like I am just not as sensitive doesnt it.

To ask why christians are lying and calling on others to lie in ways that could affect our community.

My favorite word, Evidence.
Do you think Christians are perfect busker, thats silly and sad. Of course its wrong to lie but you would deny others their free choice.
Thats a very evil thing to say busker.

See Dags, there busker is telling people not to lie. That Dags is taking away free choice. The choice to lie or not.
Even Christians have that right from God. Busker is being a dictator.

I dont recommend anybody lies. Honesty is a good policy.
Though when marking the census today I urge everyone, even busker to tick Christian and commit their lives to Jesus.

I don't care what you believe, I just want your beliefs kept out of my life and the lives of the people I care about.

Yet here you are at a Christian forum.
and I do care what you believe, like it or not, believe it or not you are on the road to condemnation.
Remember it is a Christian forum and we have that message.

Uhm, and please keep your beliefs away from me and mine, easy?

You seem to want to inflict your beliefs on me, so it's your position that's causing the friction, BTW.

You seem to want to inflict your beliefs on me, so it's your position that's causing the friction, Busker
Its a Christian forum, I am not at an atheist forum.
I was once at the Dawkins forum but I was banned because as much as they liked to attack, they couldnt defend. Just like somebody else.

Yea Busker I am happy to cause contention with an atheist or many atheists, friction if you will.


Rally Ho

 

[TheDag]

As, obviously I find your moral stance.
Tell me Busker what do you hate about Jesus?

I could be wrong but I think Busker more has a problem with certain christians behaviour than Jesus.

I never sent you a message. I received that email from atheists coincidentally, maybe they were agnostics, who can tell the difference.
Vilification, you poor oppressed person. So tell me, are you feeling vilified because you are being questioned on your moral standard. How interesting.
I feel vilified on a Christian forum because of the atheist antagonism.

Well if you wanted a nice section in the Aus/NZ forum you should have been here over five years ago. Many of those people left because of the politics within the way CF operates. Things were much more peaceful then and there were non-believers here as well.

You come here to question us and/or me, and I question you, well, more to counter the atheist preaching. As I see it.
Tell me busker, Argy, BB, et all. Why cant you allow me and my friends and family to believe and teach creation. Does it hurt, kill, damage.
You are welcome to believe and preach evolution, thats fine.
Why cant I do what I want.
Looks like I am just not as sensitive doesnt it.

Who is stopping you from doing that??? I have never had anyone come into my house and tell me what I can and can't teach my child. So who is coming into your house and stopping you from believing????

My favorite word, Evidence.
Do you think Christians are perfect busker, thats silly and sad. Of course its wrong to lie but you would deny others their free choice.
Thats a very evil thing to say busker.

He hasn't so far denied anyone their choice. He is asking to be allowed his choice. He is asking others to not lie but in no way forcing or demanding.

See Dags, there busker is telling people not to lie. That Dags is taking away free choice. The choice to lie or not.
Even Christians have that right from God. Busker is being a dictator

Um no he asked a question and called on others. When calling on others to do something it is not forcing.

You seem to want to inflict your beliefs on me, so it's your position that's causing the friction, Busker
Its a Christian forum, I am not at an atheist forum.
I was once at the Dawkins forum but I was banned because as much as they liked to attack, they couldnt defend. Just like somebody else.

Yea Busker I am happy to cause contention with an atheist or many atheists, friction if you will.

Yes you are at a christian forum which specifically has areas for non-christians and they are welcome to post. If you think they are breaking the rules then report them. Easy done. Remember just being a non-christian and posting is not against the rules. It is encouraged!

Unfortunately Dags the thread has gone, so I cant.
As I stated, go ask busker.

and if I ask Busker and he says he didn't then what???? All I can go on is what he has said that is visible. My past dealings with him and also your continuous (possibly deliberate) misunderstanding. I have used dictionary definitions to show this yet you still make the same claims. I have shown evidence you have not.

 

[Born to Watch]

I could be wrong but I think Busker more has a problem with certain christians behaviour than Jesus.

Yeah I thought he (Busker) might like to say that, though he NEVER did.
See I think Busker hates Jesus, but hey go put words in his mouth.
That will clear it all up.

Well if you wanted a nice section in the Aus/NZ forum you should have been here over five years ago. Many of those people left because of the politics within the way CF operates. Things were much more peaceful then and there were non-believers here as well.

Well look where I am now, here, today.

Who is stopping you from doing that??? I have never had anyone come into my house and tell me what I can and can't teach my child. So who is coming into your house and stopping you from believing????

No Dags Go read Buskers original post attacking me. He accused me of saying I denied him that right.
He, you and anyone can believe what ever you like. I will teach my 7 home schooled children creation, show them the evidence and teach them that the pseudo science of evolution is a lie.
I am fine with that.

He hasn't so far denied anyone their choice. He is asking to be allowed his choice. He is asking others to not lie but in no way forcing or demanding.

Go read what he stated and ponder what he wants.

Um no he asked a question and called on others. When calling on others to do something it is not forcing.

Read the underlying demand Dags, read what he wants. He wants Christians and atheists to conform to his (buskers) will, while denying accepting anything from any Christians here.

Yes you are at a christian forum which specifically has areas for non-christians and they are welcome to post. If you think they are breaking the rules then report them. Easy done. Remember just being a non-christian and posting is not against the rules. It is encouraged!

Breaking the rules, did I say that??
I said I would challenge his atheistic preachings. I didnt say he broke the rules at all, anywhere.
I know he is welcome here, very conscious of that. Would you like me to nod my head and agree with everything our lovely atheist friends want or say?
Deny Jesus cos Busker states Jesus is fictional? Surely that would make him more welcome.

and if I ask Busker and he says he didn't then what???? All I can go on is what he has said that is visible. My past dealings with him and also your continuous (possibly deliberate) misunderstanding. I have used dictionary definitions to show this yet you still make the same claims. I have shown evidence you have not.

Not much, though you havnt asked him. We know he said he wasnt a liar, what have you to lose Dags, ask him.

You know Dags I think busker hates principled opinionated Christians and finds solace in the luke warm Christians.
You know what else Dags, I enjoy being hated for Jesus, for being uncompromising.
If you as a Christian want to correct me, how about using the bible.
I cant argue with Gods word.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

See I think Busker hates Jesus, but hey go put words in his mouth.

You know Dags I think busker hates principled opinionated Christians....You know what else Dags, I enjoy being hated for Jesus, for being uncompromising.

Where do you get that from? Seems to me that you consider anyone who disagrees with you to be a Jesus hater. Hate is a very strong emotion and I haven't seen any reason for you to accuse anyone of it. "I enjoy being hated" - I doubt very much many people could be bothered expending the energy needed to hate you and they certainly wouldn't do it because of your beliefs.

 

[TheDag]

No Dags Go read Buskers original post attacking me. He accused me of saying I denied him that right.
He, you and anyone can believe what ever you like. I will teach my 7 home schooled children creation, show them the evidence and teach them that the pseudo science of evolution is a lie.
I am fine with that.

So he is not taking away your right to teach your kids what you want like you claimed. If he was then you would not be teaching them creation at all would you. I did see Busker say believe what you want but don't try to force your beliefs on him. I see no problem with that. Witnessing is not about forcing a belief on anybody.

Read the underlying demand Dags, read what he wants. He wants Christians and atheists to conform to his (buskers) will, while denying accepting anything from any Christians here.

Even with all the disagreements I've had with busker I have never had him demand I change my thinking. He has challenged my thinking which is not the same as demanding.

Breaking the rules, did I say that??
I said I would challenge his atheistic preachings. I didnt say he broke the rules at all, anywhere.
I know he is welcome here, very conscious of that. Would you like me to nod my head and agree with everything our lovely atheist friends want or say?
Deny Jesus cos Busker states Jesus is fictional? Surely that would make him more welcome.

I never claimed you said anybody was breaking the rules. However your pointing out that this site is called christian forums and he is an athiest seemed to be suggesting he was not welcome based on him being an athiest.

Not much, though you havnt asked him. We know he said he wasnt a liar, what have you to lose Dags, ask him.

time that could be better spent. Of course you have not answered my question. What if he says he didn't? It would be his word against your word with no proof all the same. We would just be back at square one. Unless you have been hacking my CF account you can't know what private communications go on between Busker and myself so you should not make such claims without the proof.

You know Dags I think busker hates principled opinionated Christians and finds solace in the luke warm Christians.
You know what else Dags, I enjoy being hated for Jesus, for being uncompromising.

Yeah because that was the approach taken by Jesus who sat down and ate & drank with people. A couple of times such as turning over the tables in the temple were the exceptions. When Jesus was on trial by those who hated him did he respond with aggression? Nope he basically said nothing. Also what did Paul do when he saw idols and alters to false gods? Did he condemn them or did he speak to them and say Hey you guys are obviously spiritual so let me tell you about this unknown god you have an alter for. Where is the aggressive confrontation?

If you as a Christian want to correct me, how about using the bible.
I cant argue with Gods word.

You tell me what part of the bible gives definitions basically every single word and I'll use it. Until then I will use the dictionary to provide definitions of words.

 

[Born to Watch]

You know dags you should sing Busker and BB a lullaby and comfort them off to sleep.
Me, I will warn them that they are on a course to destruction.
Have you ever read the first half of Isiaha, I recommend it to you.

 

[Worldslaziestbusker]

BTW, if I had anything to deny about what I wrote, I would hardly call attention to the fact that the former thread about the census had gone missing. I asked that people act honestly and not encourage dishonesty in others. Why do you have a problem with that request? Why do you not spot the hypocrisy in accusing me of being a dictator and at the same time telling me that if I don't do what you want, I will be punished?

 

[Born to Watch]

WLB I am a messenger, passing on a message. Its not about what I want, I am in the same position you are, I am a sinner.
You were the one telling other atheists and Christians they had to be honest.
I agree honesty is a holy and wonderful position, I just asked what you based this moral standard on.
Lets not get carried away with pedantics.
I am sure you would happily encourage dishonesty if your position was tenuous, not saying you would, just saying I think you would.
I think its hypocritical that somebody with no base moral standards is calling for his own moral standard to be accepted by everyone else.

Your reasons are selfish, you hate the gospel and you demand others to be honest to further your Jesus hate campaign. It is evident by you being here.
Your moral stand is based on YOU furthering your agenda, Thats it.
Come on WLB, its obvious.

 

[Worldslaziestbusker]

I agree honesty is a holy and wonderful position, I just asked what you based this moral standard on.
I am sure you would happily encourage dishonesty if your position was tenuous, not saying you would, just saying I think you would.
I think its hypocritical that somebody with no base moral standards is calling for his own moral standard to be accepted by everyone else.

Your reasons are selfish, you hate the gospel and you demand others to be honest to further your Jesus hate campaign. It is evident by you being here.
Your moral stand is based on YOU furthering your agenda, Thats it.
Come on WLB, its obvious.

I agree that my agenda is selfish. "Leave me alone," is the core of my position, and is entirely about me. I am the only person I can speak for, the only person whose actions I can claim credit for, and the only person whose actions I am willing to take the blame for. You, on the other hand, seem to be willing to speak on the behalf of an entire religion, and it does that religion no service to have you as its mouth-piece.
Because I am not left alone by adherents of your religion, and those of other religions, I find myself arguing with self righteous bigots about my right to ignore your religion and its practices if I choose to do so. And still you seek to wildly misrepresent my position as hateful and tell me that unless I agree with you I will be punished. You are a great advertisement as to why people should act with honesty and integrity, if not because the law and their religion promotes doing so, then simply to not be like you.

 

[Born to Watch]

You are not left alone Busker cos clearly you love to hang out with here us Jesus freaks.
You know Busker you strike me as a little arrogant and self righteous, I on the other hand am "Jesus" righteous, not self righteous.
Please dont make that mistake. I am a sinner. I am no better than you without Jesus.

And no you dont have to agree with me, many Christians dont on many thing, you have to accept Jesus. Thats all my message is, the gospel, Jesus.
You dont accept Jesus and his salvation you will be destroyed. That Busker is the Christian message.

The sole reason you told atheists to not mark Christian on the census was because you hate Jesus, it was not because of any moral stance you have. Not only are you a hypocrite you manipulate Christianity to suit your nasty little agenda.
Go ahead and deny it Busker?

 

[Born to Watch]

The sole reason Busker told atheists to not mark Christian on the census was because he hates Christianity, it was not because of any moral stance he has, its simply because he would hate to see Christianity grow,even by default.
Not only is it hypocritical, he manipulated the teachings of Jesus to suit his agenda.
Can you deny it Busker?

 

[TheDag]

The sole reason Busker told atheists to not mark Christian on the census was because he hates Christianity, it was not because of any moral stance he has. Not only is it hypocritical, he manipulated the teachings of Jesus to suit his agenda.
Go ahead and deny it Busker?

proof please

 

[Born to Watch]

Uhm, You know Dags. Busker is here arguing, fighting and causing dissension and he hates Christianity, he hates religion and he hates what Jesus stands for.
Funniest thing Dags is you are asking me! Whats with that? Why ask me Dags, why havnt you the courage to ask Busker directly.
I actually believe Busker will be honest, and if I am wrong about Busker I will stand corrected.

 

[TheDag]

Uhm, You know Dags. Busker is here arguing, fighting and causing dissension and he hates Christianity, he hates religion and he hates what Jesus stands for.
Funniest thing Dags is you are asking me! Whats with that? Why ask me Dags, why havnt you the courage to ask Busker directly.
I actually believe Busker will be honest, and if I am wrong about Busker I will stand corrected.

I'm asking you because you are the one making the claims.

Funny how you changed the topic and avoided answering my question. Here is another one - Have you been hacking my account? (kinda a repeat I know!) As I said you have no idea what private correspondance Busker and I have had so don't make claims you can't back up.Feel free BTW to post my private messages if that helps.

All of what you said at the beginning of the post in no way proves one way or the other what his motives were for posting this thread. Let me give a similar situation. I hate murder but that does not mean I am causing trouble if I discuss what the penalty for murder should be. I personally have never found Busker to be offensive even when we have disagreed with each other (which has been many times).

You also have not responded to my point about how Jesus behaved when witnessing and how that compares to your behaviour. It is fine to be hated because of the message you preach however you should not be disliked simply because of behaviour which is what I see happening.

 

[Born to Watch]

Well Dags I will leave how I arrived at my decision to everybody else.

How did Jesus end up Dags.