Cavemen and Dinosaurs

[stevevw]

as far as i understand it the age of dinosaurs is up for debate with the latest discoveries of tissue in the supposed million year old bones. blood vessels, bone matrix and elastic tissues have been found in bones of the t Rex and other dinosaurs.

Furthermore, using a technique called mass spectrometry, the investigators found amino acid sequences of proteins in extracts of the dinosaur bone that matched sequences from proteins called actin, tubulin and histone4 that are present in the cells of all animals. Although some microbes have proteins that are similar to actin and tubulin, the researchers note that soil-derived E. coli as well as sediments that surrounded the two dinosaur specimens failed to bind to the actin and tubulin antibodies that bound to the extract containing the apparent osteocytes.

 

[gungasnake]

Why Aren't They Mentioned?[/url]

"Rephaim".

The Old Testament is laconic, basically a sort of a Reader's Digest version of what Jews call Midrashim, the full body of ancient rabbinical literature. Louis Ginzburg's 7-volume "Legends of the Jews" is the largest body of such literature ever translated into Western languages. It mentions several things which are plainly dinosaurs including the behemoth, which is also mentioned in the book of Job, the Ziz bird, some sort of a pterosaur, and the reem, some sort of a large dinosaur. These are described as being oddities, i.e. a handful of leftovers still walking around at a time just prior to the flood.

American Indians are descendants of one of the Cro Magnon saltations and had been on the Earth longer than the people of Genesis. Their oral traditions speak of dealing with dinosaurs on a more regular basis, see Vine Deloria's "Red Earth, White Lies".

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Cro Magnon people were modern humans like us and could certainly interbreed with modern humans. Their descendants include the Spanish Basque, the Japanese Ainu, native Australian groups, the people of the Canary islands, many if not most or all Amerind groups, and a few others.

Strange how just about all darker skinned seem to fall into the slightly less than human groups.

 

[gungasnake]

Strange how just about all darker skinned seem to fall into the slightly less than human groups.

Cro Magnons were/are not a less than human group. You might want to try a search on 'cro magnon art'...

 

[gungasnake]

Again the difference between the two groups amounted to the original cultures and technologies, there is no meaningful genetic difference.

Total genetic variation in the human race even now is said to be less than in a typical group of 40 African monkeys of the same species.

 

[stevevw]

its not hard to imagine a group of people of mixed features producing many different variations several generations down the line. if i look at my ancestors through my family tree i sometimes wonder how they are related as they have features that are very different to mine.

 

[LastSeven]

All the other references in the Bible make that clear that it is a literal 6 days that creation takes place, not that there is room for millions or billions of years.

I realize this statement is a few years old but I just want to respond and point out that the six days of creation can not be a literal six days as we define "days" today.

Quite simply this is because the sun was not set in the sky until the fourth "day". So how can the first three days be measured without a sun around which to revolve the earth?

Clearly the "days" of creation are not 24 hour periods, but also we have to recognize that God exists outside of our constraint of time and prior to the creation of time, in which we live, nothing can be measured, which really makes the entire debate impossible.

Carbon dating also relies on the rate at which carbon enters the atmosphere but at which point during creation did carbon begin to enter our atmosphere? On the first day? The fourth? The sixth?

If we can't even define the time it took for creation to be completed, how can we with any certainty use carbon dating to mark "the beginning" of the earth? There are just way too many unknowns.

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

I realize this statement is a few years old but I just want to respond and point out that the six days of creation can not be a literal six days as we define "days" today.

Quite simply this is because the sun was not set in the sky until the fourth "day". So how can the first three days be measured without a sun around which to revolve the earth?

Actually there are many sources of light, not just the sun. There are also many types of light, not just visible light. Short-wave light includes ultraviolet light, X-rays, and others. Long-wave light includes infrared light, radio waves, etc. Light is produced by friction, by fire, by numerous chemical reactions, as well as the nuclear reactions of atomic fission and fusion, which is what we think is occurring in the sun. God had at His fingertips many options to accomplish His purposes. Light does not automatically require the sun. Not surprisingly, the Hebrew 'owr in vv. 3 and 4 are used to mean "light of day," and as is told in Revelation, the new Earth will be lit not by a sun or a moon, but by God's presence. Remember? He was there at the creation.

We also have important data given by the Hebrew words used in the creation account. When God created "light" in v. 3, 'owr connotes the presence of light only, while the word used for "lights" -- the Hebrew ma'owr -- in v. 16 is best translated "light bearers," or permanent light sources. Their purpose was not only to give light, but to serve as timekeepers for man once he was created. According to the best stellar creation theory now available, light from stars created anywhere in the universe on Day Four would reach earth in two earth days, and would be useful to Adam on Day Six.

Clearly the "days" of creation are not 24 hour periods ...

Clearly they were, as I'm sure you know that when the Hebrew 'yowm preceded by a cardinal number requires us to interpret it as a literal 24 hour day, and despite numerous Internet posting to contrary, this was, in fact, a hard and fast rule in the Hebrew language.

... but also we have to recognize that God exists outside of our constraint of time and prior to the creation of time, in which we live, nothing can be measured ...

In reference to the portion I've emboldened and italicized, you must add, " ... except by God" who, I assure you, can count minutes, seconds, even millionths of a second -- and did so during the creation.

Carbon dating also relies on the rate at which carbon enters the atmosphere but at which point during creation did carbon begin to enter our atmosphere? On the first day? The fourth? The sixth?

Carbon dating, or any other isotropic dating method, is inaccurate, in that it assumes there were uniform distributions of radioactive isotopes of certain key long-half-life elements, which is a ridiculous and unscientific assumption.

If we can't even define the time it took for creation to be completed ...

Straw man argument, which you created in order to destroy, but as I've shown, it isn't valid.

... how can we with any certainty use carbon dating to mark "the beginning" of the earth?

We can't.

There are just way too many unknowns.

Except for the absolutely knowable and definitive truth of God, which He has graciously given us in Scripture.

 

[stevevw]

Actually there are many sources of light, not just the sun. There are also many types of light, not just visible light. Short-wave light includes ultraviolet light, X-rays, and others. Long-wave light includes infrared light, radio waves, etc. Light is produced by friction, by fire, by numerous chemical reactions, as well as the nuclear reactions of atomic fission and fusion, which is what we think is occurring in the sun. God had at His fingertips many options to accomplish His purposes. Light does not automatically require the sun. Not surprisingly, the Hebrew 'owr in vv. 3 and 4 are used to mean "light of day," and as is told in Revelation, the new Earth will be lit not by a sun or a moon, but by God's presence. Remember? He was there at the creation.

We also have important data given by the Hebrew words used in the creation account. When God created "light" in v. 3, 'owr connotes the presence of light only, while the word used for "lights" -- the Hebrew ma'owr -- in v. 16 is best translated "light bearers," or permanent light sources. Their purpose was not only to give light, but to serve as timekeepers for man once he was created. According to the best stellar creation theory now available, light from stars created anywhere in the universe on Day Four would reach earth in two earth days, and would be useful to Adam on Day Six.
Clearly they were, as I'm sure you know that when the Hebrew 'yowm preceded by a cardinal number requires us to interpret it as a literal 24 hour day, and despite numerous Internet posting to contrary, this was, in fact, a hard and fast rule in the Hebrew language.
In reference to the portion I've emboldened and italicized, you must add, " ... except by God" who, I assure you, can count minutes, seconds, even millionths of a second -- and did so during the creation.
Carbon dating, or any other isotropic dating method, is inaccurate, in that it assumes there were uniform distributions of radioactive isotopes of certain key long-half-life elements, which is a ridiculous and unscientific assumption.
Straw man argument, which you created in order to destroy, but as I've shown, it isn't valid.
We can't.
Except for the absolutely knowable and definitive truth of God, which He has graciously given us in Scripture.

Who know there maybe more to light than we think. As scientists discover more and we see there is something about light and time which is breaking all the known physical laws of how we understand it. There is this dark matter and energy out in the blackness of space and its all around us. If god is the creator of the universe then he is the creator of this unknown aspect and it may not just be about the laws of how we understand light and time work. That light that is mentioned in genesis maybe this unknown power or energy that makes everything work and keeps it all together.

The actual creation of the sun and moon and all the stars and planets may have been to do with making it all work in conjunction according to time and seasons and days. IT all works in harmony and one depends on the other and one can effect the other. They are starting to see that there this dark energy plays a part in keeping everything in place and working with each other and without it things would be all over the place. All the objects in the universe and everything here on earth cannot function without this strange energy that some scientists cannot get their heads around at the moment. Maybe they never will maybe this is the very thing that God put in place to allow everything to work.

 

[Paul K]

I am sure most of you already went to a museum that have dinosaur exhibits, Have you seen the size of their infant dinosaurs. Most of the dinosaurs are as small as a chicken when they are like a couple months old. So there is a possibility that the dinosaurs were very young when they boarded the ark. In the book of job, there were a description of a giant creature with thick legs and thick tail, there are no animals in modern time that fits that creature except for a dinosaur called Brontosaurus. Some of you might comment saying that the bible don't have the word dinosaur in it, but the word was invented in mid 1800s. The bible was translated into english and various languages in early 1600 or before, so makes sense that there wouldn't have the word Dinosaur in it. I could go on and on, but i don't want to prattle on too long.

God bless you all,

Paul k

 

[stevevw]

I am sure most of you already went to a museum that have dinosaur exhibits, Have you seen the size of their infant dinosaurs. Most of the dinosaurs are as small as a chicken when they are like a couple months old. So there is a possibility that the dinosaurs were very young when they boarded the ark. In the book of job, there were a description of a giant creature with thick legs and thick tail, there are no animals in modern time that fits that creature except for a dinosaur called Brontosaurus. Some of you might comment saying that the bible don't have the word dinosaur in it, but the word was invented in mid 1800s. The bible was translated into english and various languages in early 1600 or before, so makes sense that there wouldn't have the word Dinosaur in it. I could go on and on, but i don't want to prattle on too long.

God bless you all,

Paul k

I have also seen drawings and art work of ancient peoples of around 4 or 5 thousand years ago who have drawn dinosaur shapes on rock walls or in their buildings. Some with the horns and keels in the right places. Some say they could have copied bones they had found but some have the detail very close.
http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/dinocarving.html