Cause & Effect?

[JGG]

Cause...
In case you were wondering, atheism is Satan's religion:
YouTube - Atheism, the newest religion (Satan's religion)

Effect:
"The only good Atheist is a Dead Atheist"

Including those who believe in evolution.

And atheists who have let you stay at their home.

See now, this is why I don't tell people that I'm an atheist any more, unless I know them well. And frankly even then, if I can avoid it, I avoid it. The truth of it is, I don't know how their religion will cause them to react to me, and what that reaction will be.

It was just under two years ago that I was physically assaulted for admitting to being an atheist and/or pro-choice. I got sucker punched, and as a result suffered a concussion, a broken nose, and a severely bruised eye socket. Why did I deserve this, you ask? Well, for one, I visited my friend and his wife who had just had twins the day before. Secondly, I'm not a Christian.

I know that according to the Bible sucker punching atheists is hardly a sin, maybe even encouraged, but how do you justify murder?

 

[david_x]

Cause...
In case you were wondering, atheism is Satan's religion:

*edit.

See now, this is why I don't tell people that I'm an atheist any more, unless I know them well. And frankly even then, if I can avoid it, I avoid it. The truth of it is, I don't know how their religion will cause them to react to me, and what that reaction will be.

It was just under two years ago that I was physically assaulted for admitting to being an atheist and/or pro-choice. I got sucker punched, and as a result suffered a concussion, a broken nose, and a severely bruised eye socket. Why did I deserve this, you ask? Well, for one, I visited my friend and his wife who had just had twins the day before. Secondly, I'm not a Christian.

I know that according to the Bible sucker punching atheists is hardly a sin, maybe even encouraged, but how do you justify murder?

What do you mean not a sin? That is a big sin in fact, they did it on purpose even though they knew God's purpose.

I can see standing up for life, and I very much disagree with any anti-lifers. But that does not mean physical violence.

 

[Wedjat]

I had a similar experience "coming out" during a boy scout meeting. Someone asked about my religion. I'm generally honest about it (mostly because I'm confident I can stand up for myself in almost any situation), so I told them. In less than a few minutes I was literally surrounded by people being verbally abused. I didn't get hit, but that might have more to do with the fact that they all knew I was a fairly accomplished martial artist than anything else.
Afterwords me and my scout master had to have a little talk, because, being the atheist in boy scouts, I of course was the problem, not the people yelling at me.
And my scout troop was fairly "progressive" (only reason I was allowed to stay).

 

[JGG]

What do you mean not a sin? That is a big sin in fact, they did it on purpose even though they knew God's purpose.

I can see standing up for life, and I very much disagree with any anti-lifers. But that does not mean physical violence.

Are you suggesting that the Bible condemns violence? I mean, The Bible? Does it call it a sin? I guess "Thou shalt not sucker punch others" appears somewhere I've never noticed.

 

[david_x]

Are you suggesting that the Bible condemns violence? I mean, The Bible? Does it call it a sin? I guess "Thou shalt not sucker punch others" appears somewhere I've never noticed.

Those who live by the sword die by the sword.

Turn the other cheek

Love your enemy

 

[Wedjat]

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword

 

[david_x]

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword

You do not understand, do not deface yourself. Read whole Chapters not individual verses and the answer should become obvious. After reading Matthew 10, come back and we can discuss problems.

 

[JGG]

Those who live by the sword die by the sword.

Turn the other cheek

Love your enemy

Where does it say that it's a sin? I mean murder it says "Thou shalt not murder." That's pretty clear. Where is this made a sin?

 

[david_x]

Where does it say that it's a sin? I mean murder it says "Thou shalt not murder." That's pretty clear. Where is this made a sin?

Sin, doing that which is against the will of God. If God wants us to turn to love, and we instead strike out of anger have we not done what God detests?

 

[Wedjat]

You do not understand, do not deface yourself. Read whole Chapters not individual verses and the answer should become obvious. After reading Matthew 10, come back and we can discuss problems.

I have read Matthew 10, honestly I think the whole thing is rather deplorable. It seems to be telling everyone that if they don't drop everything they hold dear (including their own family) and worship him unquestioningly then we will deny them to his father in heaven. Also instructions on how to best evangelize, and if people don't listen to you then they'll burn in hell anyway.

My point in posting that was not to try to imply that Jesus literally "lived by the sword", but rather that there are good things and bad things in the bible. You can use quotes to support almost any argument, including trying to legitimize something that would go against other parts of the bible.

 

[david_x]

I have read Matthew 10, honestly I think the whole thing is rather deplorable. It seems to be telling everyone that if they don't drop everything they hold dear (including their own family) and worship him unquestioningly then we will deny them to his father in heaven. Also instructions on how to best evangelize, and if people don't listen to you then they'll burn in hell anyway.

My point in posting that was not to try to imply that Jesus literally "lived by the sword", but rather that there are good things and bad things in the bible. You can use quotes to support almost any argument, including trying to legitimize something that would go against other parts of the bible.

I c, so you still don't understand. Try reading with a little less judgement about Christians. We are not all the ones who attacked you when you were young, most of us love you.

1. Does it say to drop your family or to put God before your family?

2. Does it say to turn on your family, or that they will turn on you?

3. Does it say that we should pick up our swords, or that we should not fear being slain by the swords for what we say?

 

[Wedjat]

I c, so you still don't understand. Try reading with a little less judgement about Christians. We are not all the ones who attacked you when you were young, most of us love you.

1. Does it say to drop your family or to put God before your family?

2. Does it say to turn on your family, or that they will turn on you?

3. Does it say that we should pick up our swords, or that we should not fear being slain by the swords for what we say?

Firstly, this doesn't relate to my point. Someone can use the bible to support any position.

For example I could say

1. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.(That kind of screams drop everything and worship)

2. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. (This has been used to justify shunning your family)

3. Think not that I am come to send peace on earth I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Or I could say.

1. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. (Simply put God first)

2. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. (They will turn on you, but God is most important)

3. And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul (Purposefully leaving out the bit about us having to fear God because he can toast our bodies and souls in Hell)

Specific verses can be used to promote different viewpoints. Ultimately the entire text is made up of individual verses, so taking them out of context, then putting them back in can help one contort it's meaning (in their own mind) to whatever they want it to be, in some cases, attempting to legitimize their distrust or outright hatred of non-believers. This was all I was saying.

Furthermore, the reason I don't like Matthew 10 isn't because I don't understand it, it's because I find blind obedience deplorable. Clearly to someone who has faith in the lord, the writings are not bad at all because they're only asking you to follow the light of God.

Where you see, "keep your priorities straight" I see, "worship me without question or else"

I don't harbor any judgment towards Christians. It's few pages in a book, not the defining characteristic of every Christian on the planet.

 

[david_x]

Firstly, this doesn't relate to my point. Someone can use the bible to support any position.

For example I could say

1. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.(That kind of screams drop everything and worship)

2. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. (This has been used to justify shunning your family)

3. Think not that I am come to send peace on earth I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Or I could say.

1. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. (Simply put God first)

2. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. (They will turn on you, but God is most important)

3. And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul (Purposefully leaving out the bit about us having to fear God because he can toast our bodies and souls in Hell)

Specific verses can be used to promote different viewpoints. Ultimately the entire text is made up of individual verses, so taking them out of context, then putting them back in can help one contort it's meaning (in their own mind) to whatever they want it to be, in some cases, attempting to legitimize their distrust or outright hatred of non-believers. This was all I was saying.

Furthermore, the reason I don't like Matthew 10 isn't because I don't understand it, it's because I find blind obedience deplorable. Clearly to someone who has faith in the lord, the writings are not bad at all because they're only asking you to follow the light of God.

Where you see, "keep your priorities straight" I see, "worship me without question or else"

I don't harbor any judgment towards Christians. It's few pages in a book, not the defining characteristic of every Christian on the planet.

I am well aware of the perversions used on the Book of Books, that is not what we are discussing. Does this verse support the use of violence? No in fact it was quiet the opposite.

Not sure where you got the rest of that from but let's stay on topic...

 

[JGG]

Sin, doing that which is against the will of God. If God wants us to turn to love, and we instead strike out of anger have we not done what God detests?

So far you've talked about swords. I'm not talking about swords, but fists.

You've said turn the other cheek, and in fact, I did. It did not stop the Christian from assaulting me.

You've said love your enemy. While I feel the boat has set off on this one, I must point out that this does not necessarily mean that punching your enemy in the face is a sin. Indeed, it would seem to negate the need for enemies.

Besides, considering how many Christians seem to think Jesus carried a gun, do you really think they consider punching an atheist in the face a sin? I mean really? My point is that it is certainly not as cut and dry as say, thou shalt not worship graven images.

But wait, you have not yet convinced me that hitting atheists in the face is not in fact the will of God. I mean:

Psalm 14:1 - The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Why would God not want you to punch me in the face? We doeth nothing good other than make for excellent walking punching bags.

 

[david_x]

So far you've talked about swords. I'm not talking about swords, but fists.

You've said turn the other cheek, and in fact, I did. It did not stop the Christian from assaulting me.

You've said love your enemy. While I feel the boat has set off on this one, I must point out that this does not necessarily mean that punching your enemy in the face is a sin. Indeed, it would seem to negate the need for enemies.

Besides, considering how many Christians seem to think Jesus carried a gun, do you really think they consider punching an atheist in the face a sin? I mean really? My point is that it is certainly not as cut and dry as say, thou shalt not worship graven images.

But wait, you have not yet convinced me that hitting atheists in the face is not in fact the will of God. I mean:

Psalm 14:1 - The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Why would God not want you to punch me in the face? We doeth nothing good other than make for excellent walking punching bags.

JGG, i'm really sorry about what this guy/s did to you. I know it was against the will of God because it obviously hurt you. Don't ever think however that God wants bad things to happen to anyone, even if you are a fool. On that note I can't hear what your heart says, only your fingers.

Long story short, only God knows the heart of man so only God can judge what you deserve. It was not this 'Christians' place to judge you and turn on you violently.

 

[JGG]

Sin, doing that which is against the will of God. If God wants us to turn to love, and we instead strike out of anger have we not done what God detests?

JGG, i'm really sorry about what this guy/s did to you. I know it was against the will of God because it obviously hurt you. Don't ever think however that God wants bad things to happen to anyone, even if you are a fool. On that note I can't hear what your heart says, only your fingers.

Obviously, I don't think God wants bad things happen to anyone. God doesn't factor into my opinion. I'm talking about Christians who think that God wants bad things to happen to people they don't like, and then carry such things out.

Long story short, only God knows the heart of man so only God can judge what you deserve. It was not this 'Christians' place to judge you and turn on you violently.

But obviously it is. Read the OP again. Read the links. These people are "God's executioners." They have determined what God wants, and have carried it out.

 

[Wedjat]

David, listen to me. I don't actually think Mathew 10 is advocating violence, I was trying to point out that someone can use the Bible to support whatever they want.

There are verses enough to support any opinion, in context or not. You may say it is a perversion of Gods holy word, but others may see it as adherence.
You may (rightly) say it's wrong, but other people actually think atheists are evil, and they will use biblical verse to support it.
One could attempt to justify killing atheists by using the line "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me."
Another might realize that that line is in fact part of a parable, and that it was a king, a character in the story that Jesus was telling, that said those things.
And the original person who had already made up their minds about it would simply say Jesus was drawing an exact parallel between himself and the king, and that people who do not want me (Jesus) to be king over them, should be killed.

Interpretations can lead to different outcomes. It all depends on how you want to read it.

 

[david_x]

Obviously, I don't think God wants bad things happen to anyone. God doesn't factor into my opinion. I'm talking about Christians who think that God wants bad things to happen to people they don't like, and then carry such things out.

That is an obvious sin, and a selfish one.

But obviously it is. Read the OP again. Read the links. These people are "God's executioners." They have determined what God wants, and have carried it out.

and i can tell you they're wrong to do so.

 

[david_x]

David, listen to me. I don't actually think Mathew 10 is advocating violence, I was trying to point out that someone can use the Bible to support whatever they want.

That was a perversion of the scripture, i'm sure an atheist can see that as well. If you want to fight your 'enemy' you should know him. Nothing would be more embarrassing than having someone through scripture in your face when you believe it.

The Bible can only support false ideologies through manipulation, that is my statement.

 

[JGG]

That is an obvious sin, and a selfish one.

Why is it selfish? Remember, I'm part of Satan's religion, so I'll go ahead and play Devil's Advocate.

and i can tell you they're wrong to do so.

Why are they wrong? Did God not tell Abraham to kill his son? Why would he not continue to do so today?