Catholics,Orthodox, and Protestants can you answer this

[dóxatotheó]

What do you guys interpret 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 as I wanna know all you guys interpretations and views God Bless

 

[Clare73]

What do you guys interpret 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 as I wanna know all you guys interpretations and views God Bless

They are the works of the redeemed:

gold, silver, costly stones = precious, durable work that stands the test of divine judgment; they symbolize pure Christian doctrine and living;

wood, hay, straw = worthless work that will not stand the test; they symbolize weak, insipid teaching and life.

The work of some believers, built on the foundation of preaching Christ and him crucified (2:2), will stand the test, while that of others will disappear--emphasizing the importance of teaching the pure word of God.

Their loss is not of salvation, only of rewards (golden crown), which they will cast down before the throne (Revelation 4:10), because the work for which they received their crowns was all through the Holy Spirit; i.e., God's own work, and so they lay their crowns at his feet.

 

[Palmfever]

There is only one foundation. Christ not Peter.
Some use this to speak of a reward system in heaven.
Paul said some deep things in Corinthians, yet he considered them to be childish.
God hates sin and will destroy it
Yet He is forgiving and merciful.
People for some reason feel a need to follow others they consider leaders which is why they post videos and quote men's interpretations instead of studying to show themselves approved
The wisdom of an atheist is foolishness with God.
I took the chapter as a whole.

Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3 You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans? 4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere human beings?

5 What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6 I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. 7 So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8 The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. 9 For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.

10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

16 Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? 17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.

18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become “fools” so that you may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”; 20 and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.” 21 So then, no more boasting about human leaders! All things are yours, 22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23 and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.

 

[Davy]

What do you guys interpret 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 as I wanna know all you guys interpretations and views God Bless

1 Cor 3:11-15
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
KJV


It's kind of simple. For the believer, Christ Himself is our Foundation. So if we preach Christ, The Gospel, per God's Word, then we know our works will be rewarded on "the day". That 'day' is about the day of Christ's return on the "day of the Lord".

But even though in belief, if our works aren't built upon Christ as The Foundation, then those works will be burned, purged out, meaning those are left with what reward? Nothing. Yet they are saved, "yet so as by fire".

What's the "yet so as by fire" then? Only those who study all their Bible will begin to understand what is to take place after Christ's future 2nd coming when His thousand years reign with His elect begins. Many that erred will stand in judgment throughout that thousand years, and not be able to approach Christ Jesus at His table to serve Him. Only the Just, those of Christ's that reign with Him will be able to approach Him in that future time. This is related to our Lord Jesus warning about those at His coming being separated from His faithful, like the five foolish virgins of Matthew 25. It's about this...

Rev 3:16-19
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of My mouth.

17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

18 I counsel thee to buy of Me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
KJV

If our works are built on man's foundation, i.e., storing up material wealth and goods, and just living life in conceit, and not by Christ's foundation of works in Him, it's those material worldly works that will be burned up, leaving basically nothing, which is the idea of being found spiritually naked and in shame when Jesus does appear.

 

[a_ntv]

1Cor 3:11-15 is the history of our spiritual life.

@11: Our spiritual life can be founded on Christ only
@12: During our life, we can build a strong Christian live (i.e. with gold, silver), a medium Christan life (i.e. with wood), or a poor Chrisitan life with sins (i.e. with hay, stubble). [Ref Mt 7:21-29]
@13: in That Day, i.e. on the day of our death, it will be clear how strong is our Christian life [first judment]
@14: if our Christian life is strong, we will go to what we call "Paradise"
@15: if our Chrisitan life is poor (but it still exists), we will be saved anyway but through an undeniably painful transformation “as through fire” [we call it "Purgatory"]
@17: if we destroy our Christian life, God will destroy us [we call it "Hell"]

For a very Catholic interpretation of these verses you can read the document "Spe Salvi" par 46,47 of Benedict XVI, in particular par 47 focuses on “as through fire”

 

[U.S. Grant]

What do you guys interpret 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 as I wanna know all you guys interpretations and views God Bless

The context is ministry. The foundation of Christian ministry is the Scriptures of the apostles given to them personally by Jesus after His resurrection.

To build on that foundation laid by the apostles is to minister to believers, in order to build them up in the faith.

If any minister builds from another foundation, which is to minister from other than the Scriptures, then it will be burned away in judgment and time as worthless.

However, if someone ministers harmfully to the believers, so that they are led to transgressions and errors of faith, then the false minister will be destroyed along with them that follow him blindly into the ditch.

The warning, therefore, is if anyone does minister, then to be sure they minister rightly the Word of truth, because they will be held accountable for how they minister to and handle the temple of God, which is the body of Christ.

I.e. No ministry is better than bad ministry.

 

[U.S. Grant]

There is only one foundation. Christ not Peter.
Some use this to speak of a reward system in heaven.
Paul said some deep things in Corinthians, yet he considered them to be childish.
God hates sin and will destroy it
Yet He is forgiving and merciful.
People for some reason feel a need to follow others they consider leaders which is why they post videos and quote men's interpretations instead of studying to show themselves approved
The wisdom of an atheist is foolishness with God.
I took the chapter as a whole.

Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3 You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans? 4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere human beings?

5 What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6 I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. 7 So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8 The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. 9 For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.

10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

16 Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? 17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.

18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become “fools” so that you may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”; 20 and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.” 21 So then, no more boasting about human leaders! All things are yours, 22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23 and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.

The whole chapter is about ministry and how error enters in through competition for personal followers: pride, power, and filthy lucre.

And while the majority of errors in ministry are relatively harmless in themselves, there is a line crossed, where the preaching and teaching is so harmful, that it becomes destructive to the hearers that believe and follow:

Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

This Scripture is not just about personal sins and trespasses, but about ministry that produces them, and so hey become blind followers of blind guides headed into a ditch, rather than into the air with Jesus at His return:

Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

The warning is to ministers, that they will be held accountable on how they handle the temple of God, which is the body of Christ, and if they defile that body with personal traditions and commandments and errors of faith, then they likewise will be destroyed. They will be judged as temple robbers and desecrators.

It is the same error of destruction that the false leaders of the Jews committed, when they rejected Jesus for their own traditions and compelling other Jews to do likewise.

The lesson is: No ministry is better than bad ministry.

If we don't truly know exactly what we are doing in ministry, then it is best not to minister at all:

Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

 

[rockytopva]

The answer in simple form...

Did you help build Christ's church? There will be a heavenly reward
Did you work all your life to support your materialistic ways? There will be no heavenly reward

 

[U.S. Grant]

The answer in simple form...

Did you help build Christ's church? There will be a heavenly reward
Did you work all your life to support your materialistic ways? There will be no heavenly reward

And if you defile God's church with false ministry, there will be no heaven period.

 

[rockytopva]

And if you defile God's church with false ministry, there will be no heaven period.

An order of service as taught by my ministry

1. 00:00 - 02:30 I'll Fly Away
2. 02:30 - 05:00 Soon and Very Soon
3. 05:00 - 08:30 I'll Fly Away - Instrumental
4. 08:30 - 12:00 Joy Unspeakable
5. 12:00 - 13:00 Testimony of a man healed of cancer
6. 13:00 - 48:00 Sermon on Psalms 23
7. 48:00 - 59:30 Altar service - Everyone comes up for prayer

Very much the presence of love, Christian spirit, and joy....

 

[U.S. Grant]

An order of service as taught by my ministry

1. 00:00 - 02:30 I'll Fly Away
2. 02:30 - 05:00 Soon and Very Soon
3. 05:00 - 08:30 I'll Fly Away - Instrumental
4. 08:30 - 12:00 Joy Unspeakable
5. 12:00 - 13:00 Testimony of a man healed of cancer
6. 13:00 - 48:00 Sermon on Psalms 23
7. 48:00 - 59:30 Altar service - Everyone comes up for prayer

Very much the presence of love, Christian spirit, and joy....

I wish you lived within driving distance, say about 100 miles. I'd drive there.

Most don't sing the old song hymnals anymore.

 

[rockytopva]

I wish you lived within driving distance, say about 100 miles. I'd drive there.

Most don't sing the old song hymnals anymore.

I remember as a young man sitting with those old timers singing those old songs with such joy, glory, weeping, and shouting. I could just imagine the heavens opening up and calling us all away.

My main fear of this covid epidemic is that it is going to kill away that old type service and it will be hard to find that kind of service anymore. Most of the old timers in that video have all went to glory.

 

[U.S. Grant]

I remember as a young man sitting with those old timers singing those old songs with such joy, glory, weeping, and shouting. I could just imagine the heavens opening up and calling us all away.

My main fear of this covid epidemic is that it is going to kill away that old type service and it will be hard to find that kind of service anymore. Most of the old timers in that video have all went to glory.

The disease that kills it is modernism.

It's not so much that the stage performances are wrong or unedifying in their own way, but if I had authority, I would have at least one of the old song hymnals sang with believers joining.

Afterall, they spend so much time trying to get people to accompany their stage perfomrance, and they don't realize their stage performance is the problem.

Go figure.

 

[jamiec]

What do you guys interpret 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 as I wanna know all you guys interpretations and views God Bless

I don't see any reference to Purgatory here, if that's what you are asking. I think the passage speaks for itself.

The "Day" is presumably the "Day of Christ", when He comes as Judge; whereas the "fire" is presumably the fire of eschatological Judgement, which will test, refine, & purify the works of Christians (including St Paul's Corinthian hearers).

I think St Paul has this in mind:

1“Behold, I will send My messenger, who will prepare the way before Me.a Then the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to His temple—the Messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight—see, He is coming,” says the LORD of Hosts.2But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He will be like a refiner’s fire, like a launderer’s soap.3And He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver. Then they will present offerings to the LORD in righteousness.4Then the offerings of Judah and Jerusalem will please the LORD, as in days of old and years gone by.5“Then I will draw near to you for judgment. And I will be a swift witness against sorcerers and adulterers and perjurers, against oppressors of the widowed and fatherless, and against those who defraud laborers of their wages and deny justice to the foreigner but do not fear Me,” says the LORD of Hosts.

- Malachi 3.1-5.

The "Lord [has already] suddenly come to His Temple", in the Gospels. He will also come, suddenly, as Judge; which He has yet to do.

 

[U.S. Grant]

What do you guys interpret 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 as I wanna know all you guys interpretations and views God Bless

I Cor 3 is about ministry, not personal living.

I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

It begins with divisions caused by ministry:

For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

It continues with the ministry of Christ begun with the apostles to lay the foundation of Scripture for the doctrine of Christ, also called the apostles' doctrine:

According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon.

Every following minister is warned to minister from that foundation of Scriptures, in order to build up the saints, and not to do harm them harm instead:

But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

Any man laying another foundation is preaching another accursed gospel, that is not the gospel of Jesus Christ.

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Any ministering of the saints that men do will be judged by fire before the judgment seat of Christ.

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Since that judgement of ministry is at the appearing of the Lord, then the reward of ministry is after the first resurrection of the church: only those who minister from the foundation of Christ will have reward, all false ministering will be burned.

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Errors in ministry will be rebuked and burned in front of the minister at the judgment seat; however, we are all warmed that we are ministering to the temple of the God, His church, so that if any man minister wickedly and lead believers into sins and trespasses, then that minister of sin has defiled the temple of God and will be destroyed along with any foolishly following him to death:

If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This is any corrupted minister, false teacher and leader, hireling rather than shepherd, wolf rather than sheep himself, who sits in the church as a head and lord over God's heritage, rather than as a pastor after God's own heart.

And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

These are antichrists going into the world from the beginning of the church, who went out from the apostles' doctrine to teach their own doctrine to the believers, and are moved by the spirit of antichrist to destroy the work of God, rather than being moved by the Spirit of Christ to build up His church unto everlasting life.

Such false ministers rise up above the saints in their own high mindedness, to dominate the faith, rather than help their joy, and so rule them with a rod of iron for his own power and profit from them.

They teach loyalty to their own ministry rather than faithfulness to Jesus Christ only, so that the end of their ministry is destruction: In the end they teach leaving their ministry is leaving God, and the loyal spouses are free to depart from them that have left, and to remarry others remaining loyal: Unlawful desertion and adulterous remarriage.

Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

 

[Clare73]

I Cor 3 is about ministry, not personal living.

I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. (v. 6)

It begins with divisions caused by ministry:

For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? (v.4)

It continues with the ministry of Christ begun with the apostles to lay the foundation of Scripture for the doctrine of Christ, also called the apostles' doctrine:

According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. (v.10)

Every following minister is warned to minister from that foundation of Scriptures, in order to build up the saints, and not to do harm them harm instead:

But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. (v.10)

Any man laying another foundation is preaching another accursed gospel, that is not the gospel of Jesus Christ.

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. (v.11)

Any ministering of the saints that men do will be judged by fire before the judgment seat of Christ.

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. (v.13)

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
(2 Corinthians 5:10)

Since that judgement of ministry is at the appearing of the Lord, then the reward of ministry is after the first resurrection of the church: only those who minister from the foundation of Christ will have reward, all false ministering will be burned.

This not being 1 Corinthians 3, but 2 Corinthians 5:10.

Keeping in mind that the resurrection of the sheep and the goats (Matthew 25:31-32) is the one and only resurrection of all mankind, where the dead in Christ will rise first; i.e., before the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:15-16), and of which resurrection Christ alone is the first fruits (1 Corinthians 15:22-24).

Also keeping in mind that authoritative NT apostolic didactics do not present multiple resurrections. That is derived from personal interpretation of prophecy, which God said he gives "in dark sayings (riddles)," whose "meanings he does not give clearly" (Number 12:8). Personal interpretation of these riddles is resulting in contra-NT doctrine, as in the multiple resurrections presented here.

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (vv.14-15)

Errors in ministry will be rebuked and burned in front of the minister at the judgment seat; however, we are all warmed that we are ministering to the temple of the God, His church, so that if any man minister wickedly and lead believers into sins and trespasses, then that minister of sin has defiled the temple of God and will be destroyed along with any foolishly following him to death:

If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. (v.17)

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (2 Thessalonians 2:3)
This is any corrupted minister, false teacher and leader, hireling rather than shepherd, wolf rather than sheep himself, who sits in the church as a head and lord over God's heritage, rather than as a pastor after God's own heart.

However, the above is not from 1 Cor 3, and in its context, it refers to the man of lawlessness, the leader of the forces of evil at the end of time, who sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming to be God (or Messiah, Jesus Christ?)

And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding. (Jeremiah 3:15)

These are antichrists going into the world from the beginning of the church, who went out from the apostles' doctrine to teach their own doctrine to the believers, and are moved by the spirit of antichrist to destroy the work of God, rather than being moved by the Spirit of Christ to build up His church unto everlasting life.

Such false ministers rise up above the saints in their own high mindedness, to dominate the faith, rather than help their joy, and so rule them with a rod of iron for his own power and profit from them.

They teach loyalty to their own ministry rather than faithfulness to Jesus Christ only, so that the end of their ministry is destruction: In the end they teach leaving their ministry is leaving God, and the loyal spouses are free to depart from them that have left, and to remarry others remaining loyal: Unlawful desertion and adulterous remarriage.

Does Jesus agree with that when he limits separation to sexual infidelity: "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for inappropriate contenteia (illicit sexual intercourse; adultery), and marries another woman commits adultery."

Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. (Revelation 3:20-21)

 

[U.S. Grant]

This not being 1 Corinthians 3, but 2 Corinthians 5:10.

Keeping in mind that the resurrection of the sheep and the goats (Matthew 25:31-32) is the one and only resurrection of all mankind, where the dead in Christ will rise first; i.e., before the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:15-16), and of which resurrection Christ alone is the first fruits (1 Corinthians 15:22-24).

Also keeping in mind that authoritative NT apostolic didactics do not present multiple resurrections. That is derived from personal interpretation of prophecy, which God said he gives "in dark sayings (riddles)," whose "meanings he does not give clearly" (Number 12:8). Personal interpretation of these riddles is resulting in contra-NT doctrine, as in the multiple resurrections presented here.

However, the above is not from 1 Cor 3, and in its context, it refers to the man of lawlessness, the leader of the forces of evil at the end of time, who sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming to be God (or Messiah, Jesus Christ?)

Does Jesus agree with that when he limits separation to sexual infidelity: "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for inappropriate contenteia (illicit sexual intercourse; adultery), and marries another woman commits adultery."

Keeping in mind that the resurrection of the sheep and the goats (Matthew 25:31-32) is the one and only resurrection of all mankind.

Believers who don't agree with that, don't keep that in mind.

Also keeping in mind that authoritative NT apostolic didactics do not present multiple resurrections.

People who want to call their own reading of Scripture as 'The Authoritative NT Teaching' and 'Apostolic Didactics' of Christ, are certainly free to do do, but believers who disagree certainly don't have to think so.

It is more productive and convincing for us to show by Scripture why something is true, rather than to just say it is so, because we like to believe it.

Which God said he gives "in dark sayings (riddles)," whose "meanings he does not give clearly" (Number 12:8).

People who want to dismiss other readings of Scripture other than their own, as being without merit, because they ought remain 'riddles', is certainly interesting in a purposely blind sort of way, but definitely not instructive in the truth of Scripture.

The leader of the forces of evil at the end of time, who sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming to be God (or Messiah, Jesus Christ?)

Pretty much what I said. False leaders of churches acting as Pastor-God in the churches of God, which are the temple of God on earth in natural bodies.

Does Jesus agree with that when he limits separation to sexual infidelity.

It is sexual infidelity to desert one's spouse without cause, and then to marry another, making them both adulterers.

Jezebel was one such false leader, and there have been many others since then.

Their adulterous hearts produce adulterous ministries, by which others are taught to commit adultery themselves in loyalty to that ministry: it's the nature of the beast turning the righteous ministry of Christ into that of sinful man.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[Clare73]

.

Keeping in mind that the resurrection of the sheep and the goats (Matthew 25:31-32) is the one and only resurrection of all mankind.

Believers who don't agree with that, don't keep that in mind.

Also keeping in mind that authoritative NT apostolic didactics do not present multiple resurrections.

People who want to call their own reading of Scripture as 'The Authoritative NT Teaching' and 'Apostolic Didactics' of Christ, are certainly free to do do, but believers who disagree certainly don't have to think so.
It is more productive and convincing for us to show by Scripture why something is true, rather than to just say it is so, because we like to believe it.

Does not address there being only one resurrection in NT apostolic didactics.

And why the argument is true is given in the argument itself; i.e., the interpretation presented is not found in NT apostolic didactics.

So now it falls to you to Biblically demonstrate the error in that argument.

Which God said he gives "in dark sayings (riddles)," whose "meanings he does not give clearly" (Number 12:8).

People who want to dismiss other readings of Scripture other than their own, as being without merit, because they ought remain 'riddles', is certainly interesting in a purposely blind sort of way, but definitely not instructive in the truth of Scripture.

Sorry to hear God's word is simply interesting to you, but not authoritative in Numbers 12:8.

Numbers 12:8 - "When a prophet of the LORD is among you, I reveal myself to him in visions, I speak to him in dreams. But this is not true of my servant Moses; he is faithful in all my house. With him I speak face to face, clearly and not in riddles."

God contrasts the way he speaks to Moses from the way he speaks to other prophets in his prophecies to them, that being in "visions and dreams;" e.g., the ones in Zechariah, as well as Revelation, etc., which have to be interpreted to know their true meaning, because the meaning is not given clearly, it is given in riddles.; i.e., the prophecies are not literal, they are figurative.

Revelation is prophecy and, therefore, according to God, it is not literal, it is figurative, as are Daniel and Ezekiel.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The leader of the forces of evil at the end of time, who sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming to be God (or Messiah, Jesus Christ?)

Pretty much what I said. False leaders of churches acting as Pastor-God in the churches of God, which are the temple of God on earth in natural bodies.

Keeping in mind that NT didactics presents this as one leader (2 Thessalonians 2:3) whom Christ will destroy by the splendor of his coming (2 Thessalonians 2:8) at the end of time, NT didactics does not present the man of lawlessness as multiple leaders throughout time.

 

[U.S. Grant]

Keeping in mind that the resurrection of the sheep and the goats (Matthew 25:31-32) is the one and only resurrection of all mankind.

Also keeping in mind that authoritative NT apostolic didactics do not present multiple resurrections.

Why the argument is true is given in the argument itself; i.e., the interpretation presented is not found in NT apostolic didactics.

So now it falls to you to Biblically demonstrate the error in that argument.

Which God said he gives "in dark sayings (riddles)," whose "meanings he does not give clearly" (Number 12:8).

Sorry to hear God's word is simply interesting to you, but not authoritative in Numbers 12:8.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The leader of the forces of evil at the end of time, who sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming to be God (or Messiah, Jesus Christ?)

Keeping in mind that NT didactics presents this as one leader (2 Thessalonians 2:3) whom Christ will destroy by the splendor of his coming (2 Thessalonians 2:8) at the end of time, NT didactics does not present it as multiple leaders throughout time.

Why the argument is true is given in the argument itself; i.e., the interpretation presented is not found in NT apostolic didactics. So now it falls to you to Biblically demonstrate the error in that argument.

Fair enough, But keep in mind, as you say, by your invitation I can disagree with you and show Scripturally why, so don't get upset at being disagreed with.

1. Matthew 25 does not specifically say those sheep and goats are resurrected. Someone must read into Scripture to see it there, as in adding to the Scripture their own interpretation of Scripture.

The only resurrection Scripture speaks of at His second appearing, is the first resurrection of the blessed (Rev 20), in which only the blessed saints are resurrected and then meet Him in the air (1 Thess 4), and then return with Him to earth to smite the nations. (Rev 19)

He and they will then rule over them not smitten and remaining on earth with a rod of iron:

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron. (Rev 19:15)

And so, without any specific mention of a resurrection of the sheep and goats, it certainly can be said according to what is written, that the Lord in Matthew 25 is speaking of those remaining nations, that were hiding under rocks and in dens and caves (Rev 6), to by physically gathered by Him as LORD and KING reigning on earth and to be judged before Himself: the sheep to go on living in His kingdom prepared for them on earth, and the goats to go on to death and hell, until the rest of the dead live again to be judged at the great White Throne of God.

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

When was the kingdom on earth prepared for those sheep on earth? No doubt while He was smiting the nations gathered for war and cleansing Jerusalem and Zion for the throne of His reign.

He prepped the angry armies on earth with His artillery barrage of hail stone from the sky, and He prepped the earth for His reigning after the battle for the naturally good sheep left on earth.

2. The one and only resurrection of all mankind is only possible if we deny the resurrection of the man Christ Jesus, who was one of those mankind that was dead and now is alive forevermore.

And so, Scripture speaking of the first resurrection certainly means there is another. It also cannot be the first resurrection ever, since Jesus is already resurrected from the dead.

And also, since this first resurrection spoken of is only for the blessed saints, and not the rest of humanity that ever died, then it is the first resurrection of the church only, which precedes His saints ascending to meet Him in the air, before descending as His armies to smite the nations from the air.

That is two resurrections, and so there remains the last resurrection in Daniel, where both the good and the evil will be judged unto life and unto shame.

The rest of the dead in Rev 20, are all the wicked dead of history, and them that die in the Lord during His millennial reign on earth.

Sorry to hear God's word is simply interesting to you, but not authoritative in Numbers 12:8.

Your obvious effort to misstate what I am saying with an immature quip is not impressive.

As I was saying, what is interesting is someone willing to blind themselves to the understanding of any Scripture as 'unknowable' riddle, which is to acknowledge they don't desire to be led into all truth guided by the Spirit of truth. Which is their choice, not mine, so they don't bind me to their personal decisions in life.

In Number 12, God says he will not speak face to face with every man, but only in visions, dark speeches, and dreams to the prophets, which are not 'unknowable' riddles:

A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels. To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.

The wise will learn of the Lord and have understanding in dark sayings, and since he that is least in the kingdom of God and born of the Spirit of truth, is greater than the greatest of the prophets of old, including the Baptist, then certainly they most of all ought be attaining unto interpretation of dark speeches and sayings.

You deny it to yourself by your own will, and strangely enough, you only do so with Scriptures presented to you that challenge your version of 'Authoritative NT Teaching' of Scripture.

As I said, it's an interesting and cute sidestep of correction, just not impressive.

Keeping in mind that NT didactics presents this as one leader (2 Thessalonians 2:3) whom Christ will destroy by the splendor of his coming (2 Thessalonians 2:8) at the end of time, NT didactics does not present it as multiple leaders throughout time.

Once again, until you are sure of what you are talking about, you ought try not being so high-minded about your version of 'NT didactics':

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

There may indeed be one final antichrist, whose organization encompasses a large part of the churches on earth. But there were certainly many such 'littler' antichrists before him, all of whom Scripture shows had equally the same characteristics and manner of false ministry as him.

Summary:

1. The resurrection of the man Christ Jesus, one of mankind to have lived and died on earth, as well as Scripture plainly speaking of the first resurrection, and no Scripture speaking plainly of the resurrection of the sheep and goats, disproves for me any teaching of 'one and only resurrection of all mankind'. I say it's self-evidently false and contradicts plainly written Scripture.

2. Relying on willful blindness to certain Scripture that challenge our teaching, as being 'unknowable' riddles, is not wise, and is disingenuous in the extreme. The only riddle is trying to keep our cherished beliefs in tact, in the face of Scriptural correction.

I find it easier to just receive the correction, be thankful, and perfect the teaching to be more like that of Scripture than that of my own. I know, because I've been gladly corrected before, and it does work to perfect the teaching of the doctrine of Christ.

3. That man of sins is certainly preceded by many such men of sin and antichrists in Scripture, one of them being Diotrephes, who shares all the corrupted qualities of a false minister with man's face having a beast's heart, to dominate souls rather than help their joy:

I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not. Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church. (3 John)

Diotrephes is the first recorded antichrist on earth by name.

Others were also as he: them that were preachers for Christ, and were not preaching for Christ anymore, and yet were enemies of the cross preaching as christs themselves:

For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things. (Phillip 3)

The main lesson I learn from such as you, is that once we decide that we no longer want to be corrected about NT Teaching of Scripture, and so determine ours is that 'one and only authoritative' teaching of Scripture, then we become blind to any correction of Scripture, even when it plainly stares us in the face to rebuke our errors.

Your one and only resurrection of all mankind is as false as your one and only Authoritative NT teaching and 'Apostolic didactic' of Scripture.

P.s. using big words really doesn't make anyone more true. More scholarly maybe, but not more true.

Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face.

This Scripture so happens to show that Moses is not our greatest example in reading and understanding interpretation of all Scripture. Jesus Christ is:

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Them that have the mind of Christ certainly can understand interpretation of all prophecy of Scripture, with no riddles too 'unknowable', since His testimony in us is that Spirit of prophecy from the beginning. (Rev 19:10)

 

[Clare73]

Why the argument is true is given in the argument itself; i.e., the interpretation presented is not found in NT apostolic didactics. So now it falls to you to Biblically demonstrate the error in that argument.

Fair enough, But keep in mind, as you say, by your invitation I can disagree with you and show Scripturally why.

1. Matthew 25 does not specifically say those sheep and goats are resurrected. Someone must read into Scripture to see it there, as in adding to the Scripture their own interpretation of Scripture.

Are you saying all the nations which will be gathered before Jesus (Matthew 25:32)
will be without bodies? . . .Really?

The only resurrection Scripture speaks of at His second appearing, is the first resurrection of the blessed (Rev 20), in which only the blessed saints are resurrected and then meet Him in the air (1 Thess 4), and then return with Him to earth to smite the nations. (Rev 19)

Does 1 Thessalonians 4:16 specifically exclude the non-saints, or are the saints the only ones specifically mentioned because Paul is addressing saints and not non-saints?

We have no warrant for excluding non-saints in a discussion involving the resurrection at the end of time if they are not specifically excluded in the passage (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17), which they are not.

He and they will then rule over them not smitten and remaining on earth with a rod of iron:

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron. (Rev 19:15)

And so, without any specific mention of a resurrection of the sheep and goats, it certainly can be said according to what is written, that the Lord in Matthew 25 is speaking of those remaining nations, that were hiding under rocks and in dens and caves (Rev 6), to by physically gathered by Him as LORD and KING reigning on earth and to be judged before Himself: the sheep to go on living in His kingdom prepared for them on earth, and the goats to go on to death and hell, until the rest of the dead live again to be judged at the great White Throne of God.

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. (Rev 20:5)

And you say Revelation is not figurative, but literal?

Let's review the words from God's own mouth on the matter:

Numbers 12:8 - "When a prophet of the LORD is among you, I reveal myself to him in visions, I speak to him in dreams. But this is not true of my servant Moses; he is faithful in all my house. With him I speak face to face, clearly and not in riddles (dark sayings)."

God contrasts the way he speaks to Moses from the way he speaks to other prophets in his prophecies to them, that being in "visions and dreams;" e.g., the ones in Zechariah, as well as Revelation, etc., which have to be interpreted to know their true meaning, because the meaning is not given clearly, it is given in riddles (dark sayings); i.e., the prophecies are not literal, they are figurative.

Revelation is prophecy and, therefore, according to God, it is not literal, it is figurative, as in Daniel and Ezekiel.

When was the kingdom on earth prepared for those sheep on earth? No doubt while He was smiting the nations gathered for war and cleansing Jerusalem and Zion for the throne of His reign. He prepped the angry armies on earth with His artillery barrage of hail stone from the sky, and He prepped the earth for His reigning after the battle for the naturally good sheep left on earth.
2. The one and only resurrection of all mankind is only possible if we deny the resurrection of the man Christ Jesus,

I affirm the resurrection of Jesus Christ, so the one resurrection of all mankind occurred when Jesus rose?

Don't think so. . .NT apostolic didactics presents Christ's resurrection as part of the resurrection of all mankind at the end of time, he being its firstfruits (1 Corinthians 15:23), it does not present the one and only resurrection of all mankind as part of Christ's resurrection on the third day after his death.

who was one of those mankind that was dead and now is alive forevermore.

And so, Scripture speaking of the first resurrection certainly means there is another. It also cannot be the first resurrection ever, since Jesus is already resurrected from the dead.

And also, since this first resurrection spoken of is only for the blessed saints, and not the rest of humanity that ever died, then it is the first resurrection of the church only, which precedes His saints ascending to meet Him in the air, before descending as His armies to smite the nations from the air.
That is two resurrections, and so there remains the last resurrection in Daniel, where both the good and the evil will be judged unto life and unto shame.
The rest of the dead in Rev 20, are all the wicked dead of history, and them that die in the Lord during His millennial reign on earth.

Keeping in mind that is from Revelation which is prophecy and, therefore, it is figurative.

Sorry to hear God's word is simply interesting to you, but not authoritative in Numbers 12:8.

Your obvious effort to misstate what I am saying with an immature quip is not impressive. As I was saying, what is interesting is someone willing to blind themselves to the understanding of any Scripture as 'unknowable' riddle, which is to acknowledge they don't desire to be led into all truth guided by the Spirit of truth. Which is their choice, not mine, so they don't bind me to their personal decisions in life. In Number 12, God says he will not speak face to face with every man, but only in visions, dark speeches, and dreams to the prophets, which are not 'unknowable' riddles:

However, "dark sayings" contrasted with "clearly" and "not in riddles" are subject to more than one interpretation which, by definition, cannot be with "knowable" certainty.

Addressed above. . .

A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels. To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.

The wise will learn of the Lord and have understanding in dark sayings, and since he that is least in the kingdom of God and born of the Spirit of truth, is greater than the greatest of the prophets of old, including the Baptist, then certainly they most of all ought be attaining unto interpretation of dark speeches and sayings. You deny it to yourself by your own will, and strangely enough, you only do so with Scriptures presented to you that challenge your version of 'Authoritative NT Teaching' of Scripture.
As I said, it's an interesting and cute sidestep of correction, just not impressive.

However, you've never Biblically demonstrated the error of "my version" of authoritative NT teaching, the absence of which thereby renders your assertion of Biblical error without merit.

And keeping in mind that prophetic riddles personally interpreted in disagreement with NT didactics is not a "challenge" to apostolic NT didactics, rather such interpretation is a contradiction of them, making it Biblical error.

Keeping in mind that NT didactics presents this as one leader (2 Thessalonians 2:3) whom Christ will destroy by the splendor of his coming (2 Thessalonians 2:8) at the end of time, NT didactics does not present it as multiple leaders throughout time.

Once again, until you are sure of what you are talking about, you ought try not being so high-minded about your version of 'NT didactics':
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
There may indeed be one final antichrist,

Does 2 Thessalonians 2:3 regard it as a "may. . .be"?

whose organization encompasses a large part of the churches on earth. But there were certainly many such 'littler' antichrists before him, all of whom Scripture shows had equally the same characteristics and manner of false ministry as him.

Summary:

1. The resurrection of the man Christ Jesus, one of mankind to have lived and died on earth, as well as Scripture plainly speaking of the first resurrection, and no Scripture speaking plainly of the resurrection of the sheep and goats, disproves for me any teaching of 'one and only resurrection of all mankind'. I say it's self-evidently false and contradicts plainly written Scripture.

2. Relying on willful blindness to certain Scripture that challenge our teaching, as being 'unknowable' riddles, is not wise, and is disingenuous in the extreme. The only riddle is trying to keep our cherished beliefs in tact, in the face of Scriptural correction.

I find it easier to just receive the correction, be thankful, and perfect the teaching to be more like that of Scripture than that of my own. I know, because I've been gladly corrected before, and it does work to perfect the teaching of the doctrine of Christ.

3. That man of sins is certainly preceded by many such men of sin and antichrists in Scripture, one of them being Diotrephes, who shares all the corrupted qualities of a false minister with man's face having a beast's heart, to dominate souls rather than help their joy:

All addressed in my responses above.

I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not. Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.

(3 John)

Diotrephes is the first recorded antichrist on earth by name.

Others were also as he: them that were preachers for Christ, and were not preaching for Christ anymore, and yet were enemies of the cross preaching as christs themselves:

For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things. (Phillip 3)