CATHOLICS ONLY - Evidently I'm going to hell

[geocajun]

Please don't generalize based on one voice that you don't even know really represents the left. The left is a very diverse crew with many different voices. I'm part of "the left" and often have very different views than many other on the left. We aren't monolithic.

good point Maynard, generalizations are always wrong. (yes, its a generalization)

/me points at maynards signature..

"I like your Christ, but not your Christians, your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

​

~Gandhi

*ahem*

 

[Miss Shelby]

Ouch!

 

[geocajun]

At the beginning of this thread, a young lady posted that she upset because she was told she and those like her were going to hell because of her conservative position on the homosexuality issue, implied that she was upset with the way conservatives were based in general. I am sure she felt very hurt because of those issues.

I was surprised to see that later in the thread there were posts bashing liberals. And though I haven't seen any of it here, I know that there are some conservative folks who claim that gay people or liberals are going to hell and won't hesitate to proclaim that. So, it doesn't seem like extreme dislike and violent rhetoric is something that is unique to either liberals or conservatives, does it?

I try (sometimes unsuccessfully) to reflect on that when a political argument turns nasty. We all fall short of the civility and love we would probably like to be able to express in an ideal world. We are hurt when arguments turn sour and people tell us to go to hell or that that we are irredeemable, so I think it is worthwhile to think twice about saying those things to other people, no matter how reprehensible we may feel their thoughts or actions are. Remember the words of our Lord, who called us to love others (ALL others) even as he loved us and to love our even our enemies. For it is in love that we were created, in love that we live, and in love that we will live again someday if God wills it.

John

John, nobody here would claim that those with homosexual orientations are going to hell for that by itself, but we should all tell the truth that those who act on those temptations without repenting are, in fact, going to hell. To not speak this truth would be incompassionate and yes, we should speak this truth about any sin which is grave enough to send one to hell, not just homosexuality and we should be able to do so without fear from Christians telling us that these sins are tolerable which is a deception from the devil.

 

[Miss Shelby]

PB, you did the right thing. Your cousin asked, and you gave him an honest answer. Maybe it upset him now, but in time you never know, he may come to realize that you're right and thank you for it. You done good, even though I know it's upsetting to have a family member angered at you.

Michelle

 

[chilehed]

Intolerance is good (I love this quote):

"America, it is said, is suffering from intolerance. It is not. It is suffering from tolerance of right and wrong, truth and error, virtue and evil, Christ and chaos. Our country is not nearly so much overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded."
~Bishop Fulton Sheen, "A Plea for Intolerance", 1931.


Saint that man!

LOVE IT!

Reminds me of another one, I think it was C. S. Lewis : "If you keep your mind sufficiently open someone is bound to pour a bunch of rubbish into it."

 

[BillH]

So I just got yelled at by my gay cousin because he believes that all Michigan Republicans are hateful whackos that are going to Hell.

Why? Because one of our courts said that gay couples should recieve work benefits and some of our Senators want the Mi Supreme Court to overturn that ruling. We were a state that had an amendement to ban gay marriage/civil unions.

And so it ended when he asked me if him and his boyfriend should be allowed to be partners.

I told him that he could do whatever he wanted in his own place, but no, they shouldn't officially be partners.

He signed off after that.

It's a tough issue. Not homosexuality itself -- for which the Church has a pretty clear teaching -- but the best way to respond to those loved ones who stubbornly persist in any type of mortal sin. It's one that I've struggled with myself, and for which I have a completely inadequate answer. The best advice that I have is to pray for him and his boyfriend and to lead the best life of Christian chastity and charity that you can. People often respond well to examples of holiness, so try to be that example as best you can.

 

[GK]

I was in a similar situation this afternoon. I've been sharing the faith with a young man who self-identifies as gay. I'm not sure why he started asking me questions about my faith story a few weeks ago other than that God setup some sort of divine encounter. I'm doing my best to be faithful to Christ without intentionally becoming antagonistic to this young man who seems honest in his questions.

Today, he came straight out (no pun intended) and asked, "Do I have to stop being gay before I can become a Christian?" It's the question he's been hedging around for weeks. My feeling (from our past conversations) is that he wanted me to say no and was ready to bolt if I said yes. Instead, I changed the subject.

I responded, "Back up a minute. There's another, more important question. Do you believe God is God? If you don't believe in my God, then we can stop right now. If you don't believe, then it doesn't matter what this book has to say about your question. Now, if you do believe, then I can do something better than answer your question for myself. I can show you how to ask God, directly."

I never told him outright he had to change, yet I remained faithful to The Word. Tomorrow we meet again to talk about prayer, Scripture, listening to God, and receiving direction from the Holy Spirit. I trust the Holy Spirit will convict him through The Word and the Church in God's timing.

 

[geocajun]

I was in a similar situation this afternoon. I've been sharing the faith with a young man who self-identifies as gay. I'm not sure why he started asking me questions about my faith story a few weeks ago other than that God setup some sort of divine encounter. I'm doing my best to be faithful to Christ without intentionally becoming antagonistic to this young man who seems honest in his questions.

Today, he came straight out (no pun intended) and asked, "Do I have to stop being gay before I can become a Christian?" It's the question he's been hedging around for weeks. My feeling (from our past conversations) is that he wanted me to say no and was ready to bolt if I said yes. Instead, I changed the subject.

I responded, "Back up a minute. There's another, more important question. Do you believe God is God? If you don't believe in my God, then we can stop right now. If you don't believe, then it doesn't matter what this book has to say about your question. Now, if you do believe, then I can do something better than answer your question for myself. I can show you how to ask God, directly."

I never told him outright he had to change, yet I remained faithful to The Word. Tomorrow we meet again to talk about prayer, Scripture, listening to God, and receiving direction from the Holy Spirit. I trust the Holy Spirit will convict him through The Word and the Church in God's timing.

Nice work Gus

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

Thread is now reopen.

Enjoy!

 

[Fish and Bread]

It appears I've just had pages and pages of posts removed, so my participation on this particular thread is at an end, since I don't feel I can effectively participate here given the interpretation of the rules that has been decided upon. I'm not complaining about the decision to remove the posts, mind you, I just wanted to let everyone know so that I won't seem rude if I don't reply to some things directed my way -- it's not because I'm ignoring you, it's because I'm not reading the thread. I'd be happy to continue the conversation via private message with anyone who would like to.

John

 

[geocajun]

oh brother.. I won't be participating in this thread anymore either.

 

[littleteacher]

Pray.

 

[Brilliand]

If someone really tolerated all opinions... they would have no political position.

 

[Zunalter]

so much for the political left's "tolerance of diverse opinions" !!

amen to that - and they call US hypocrites

 

[Zunalter]

I fear I have the same experience about the 'right'. I think in both 'groups' there is a huge and unfortunately growing number of people who are quite intolerant.

True, however, there is a difference between intolerance and standing for your beliefs. Personally, I would never condone something that the Bible teaches is wrong, no matter how everyone else felt about it. If that makes me intolerant...well then VIVA INTOLERANCE

 

[Zunalter]

John, nobody here would claim that those with homosexual orientations are going to hell for that by itself, but we should all tell the truth that those who act on those temptations without repenting are, in fact, going to hell.

Thank you, excellent point - homosexual orientations themselves are not a sin, our thoughts and actions are what makes it sin, exactly like heterosexual lust. What bothers me about the homosexual controversy is that proponents of gays in ministry etc... are unwilling to recognize that the bible is very clear on its sin. It isnt even a grey area - wherever it is discussed in scripture it is a clear "NO-NO". Have our eyes grown so fuzzy from the world we can't read plain text?

 

[ILoveYeshua]

Matthew 10:36-39
(36) And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
(37) He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
(38) And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
(39) He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Sorry you had to alienate a cousin over the truth, but I'm glad you picked truth.