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CATHOLICS ONLY: Abortion...

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Deb7777

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The Church never allowed abortion its always been consider evil. The early church was very strict, 10 year penance for those who had an abortion, the middle ages from what I gathered lessen the penance to under a year for those who had an abortion in the 1st couple of weeks because of the debate when the soul enter but abortion has never been permitted, the penance varied in the different centuries. As time went on we believe the soul enters at the moment of conception, though some stiill debate the issue today. So to say the church allowed abortion in the early stages is incorrect.
 
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King of the Nations

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Raist3001 said:
This is where I found the claims to the church's early stance on abortion.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_hist.htm

You need to provide a link for everything you cut and paste like that or you run into copyright issues and typically have your post deleted by the mods. Just a quick FYI.


No. It wouldn't.

Greg
 
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Called2Grace

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Thank you for sharing your experience. It reaffirms what I feel in myself that taking another life, regardless of the reason is wrong. I have always felt that it is not my place to decide who gets to live or die, We had a discussion at work yesterday about abortion, someone we knew has recently had a baby with disabilities, and there was a lot of "how hard would it be for the mother, how much pain would the baby be in, what about the other children what if this happened, what if that happened..."
And I just kept thinking, what right do we have to determine that this baby shouldn't experience life??

I feel more strongly about it now than I ever have. Thankyou for leading me closer to the truth!
 
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Poohbear246

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Exactly. I am disabled -- it makes me feel nauseous upon hearing that people think that a disabled fetus *should* be aborted because he or she would too hard to deal with. (And I say the following with an elaborate eye roll --) Gee, glad to hear that we're valued members of society you know??

Hi everyone -- I've been away from OBOB for several months due to the insanity of school. Thought I'd jump right back in, if no one objects.
 
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Called2Grace

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Exactly!! That what I have been thinking! What does it matter if a person has a disability! We are all created by God! Isn't that the point?

Then I have my husband saying, "but what if the baby that is born is in so much pain yada yada yada...." I;m sure we've all heard that before...

I have a mental illness which can be hard to deal with at times, but I'm glad that I am here and can experience God.

And I also think that we don't know what can happen, even if we have a baby that doesn't have a disability etc, who's to say that something won't happen to change that? Should we then abort all babies because of the possibility that something may happen in the future? Life can be hard and there are painful experiences, so what? It still doesn't give me the right to decide if someone should live or die. Even if I want to "protect" them. I think it is more "I want to protect myself"

Anyway I'll get off my soap box now
 
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Poohbear246

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Susansmum said:
Then I have my husband saying, "but what if the baby that is born is in so much pain yada ya.." I;m sure we've all heard that before...

Yep, as you said, yadda yadda yadda. You don't know what is transpiring between the baby's soul and God through the pain. Maybe babies have a closer relationship with God than we'll ever understand because they haven't built up the things that separate us: language, ego, etc. Plus, just maybe the parents' / guardians' love will do wonders for that baby and give comfort.

I have a mental illness which can be hard to deal with at times, but I'm glad that I am here and can experience God.

Right! No one has the right to say anyone shouldn't be here.

happen to change that? Should we then abort all babies because of the possibility that something may happen in the future?

Some scholars will go so far as to say: it will happen to all of us. Period. Whether through birth, accident or just the natural process of aging. So we should all annihilate ourselves?

Anyway I'll get off my soap box now

Aww -- great point though. People try to couch this view of a mercy-abortion in terms of sympathizing with an ill baby....but it really devalues humanity in general, implying that some people are worth more than others, and that the whole of society would benefit from not having to deal with the disabled. It makes me really sad.
 
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Qidron

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Thank you very much. I really appreciate this.
 
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nyj

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Raist3001 said:
Folks, the sources you are looking for are had if you simply google the specific Pope and Church Father I listed. Their writings can be confirmed.

I know where you got your source. I said as much. I wanted to hear it from you though. And no, you didn't use multiple sources, you used A source. There is a difference.

As an example, can you provide me the actual text from Pope Innocent's ruling on this Carthusian monk?
 
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Qidron

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Thank you! The Exodus scripture is gross...never have I ever connected that with babies...but I can see the point.

I particularly appreciate this comment: "Perhaps the proponants of abortion do not consider the preborn to be people yet, but science has shown that since the preborn develop into people, they really are simply the people they develop into." So simple, so true. I probably will hang onto that most of all. It goes with the scripture Xpycoctomos shared where The Lord has had us in mind from our mothers' wombs. And I agree, I don't really expect those who oppose the truth to accept it...they have another agenda...but it is an obvious conclusion and I thank you for sharing it.

Qidron
 
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SolomonVII

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Xpycoctomos said:
okay, can we just post the link here of that source?

Immaculate Conception 1854

Assumption 1950

"The Definition

Wherefore, in humility and fasting, we unceasingly offered our private prayers as well as the public prayers of the Church to God the Father through his Son, that he would deign to direct and strengthen our mind by the power of the Holy Spirit. In like manner did we implore the help of the entire heavenly host as we ardently invoked the Paraclete. Accordingly, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, for the honor of the Holy and undivided Trinity, for the glory and adornment of the Virgin Mother of God, for the exaltation of the Catholic Faith, and for the furtherance of the Catholic religion, by the authority of Jesus Christ our Lord, of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, and by our own: "We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful."[29]

Hence, if anyone shall dare -- which God forbid! -- to think otherwise than as has been defined by us, let him know and understand that he is condemned by his own judgment; that he has suffered shipwreck in the faith; that he has separated from the unity of the Church; and that, furthermore, by his own action he incurs the penalties established by law if he should are to express in words or writing or by any other outward means the errors he think in his heart. "
 
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