Catholicism

[sweetart]

hey just because i'm a cathloic doesn't mean i have to like it or believe it. Let me clairify myself, it's just some of the things the pope and the catholic church teach are very offending (edited post for inappropriate comments towards catholicism). That's all.

 

[nyj]

Originally posted by sweetart
hey just because i'm a cathloic doesn't mean i have to like it or believe it. Let me clairify myself, it's just some of the things the pope and the catholic church teach are very offending and disgusting. That's all.

If you find the teachings of the Catholic Church disgusting, you're not Catholic.

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by sweetart
hey just because i'm a cathloic doesn't mean i have to like it or believe it. Let me clairify myself, it's just some of the things the pope and the catholic church teach are very offending and disgusting. That's all.

Hmm. I don't think this is the right forum for me, but it seems to me that:
1. If you don't believe it, you're not Catholic, any more than someone who doesn't believe in any form of God is a Christian.
2. After a dozen or so rounds of this, you will have to be understanding if I doubt that it is things actually taught by the Church that are all that offensive and disgusting; normally, when I hear people saying things like that, it turns out to be a result of believing things other people said *about* the Catholic Church, not real Catholic beliefs.

 

[Brain Damage]

Well I think if we look at her user name , her age and her star sign...a story begins to emerge .

 

[edward]

Originally posted by sweetart
hey just because i'm a cathloic doesn't mean i have to like it or believe it. Let me clairify myself, it's just some of the things the pope and the catholic church teach are very offending (edited post for inappropriate comments towards catholicism). That's all.

Didn't they say similar things about Jesus?

 

[Brain Damage]

Er...gee! I just noticed her blessings , how unfortunate .

 

[SonWorshipper]

Opps! Not in this forum, just added 111

 

[kern]

It seems like Orthodox Jews would have an easy time accepting Sacred Tradition because they have their own "oral torah", they also have the sages who can interpret the scriptures the same way the Catholics believe the church can. But I don't know if messianic Jews accept the "oral torah" or the sages.

-Chris

 

[Blindfaith]

However one may want to post, please post with kindness.

kern, this isn't directed towards you (I thought I'd mention this since your post is above this one )

Thanks.

 

[Live4Jesus]

Originally posted by Brain Damage
Well I think if we look at her user name , her age and her star sign...a story begins to emerge .

Whats a star sign?

14 year olds don't have opinions at your house Brain?

Jesus was only twelve when he entertained rabbis at the temple for 2 days....

 

[dignitized]

live4: Jesus was also GOD! hello?? It is a rare teenager who is informed and clearheaded enough to give a proper evaluation of ANYTHING! How does the saying go?

"When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much he had learned in seven years."
-- Mark Twain

 

[Talmid HaYarok]

Originally posted by kern
It seems like Orthodox Jews would have an easy time accepting Sacred Tradition because they have their own "oral torah", they also have the sages who can interpret the scriptures the same way the Catholics believe the church can. But I don't know if messianic Jews accept the "oral torah" or the sages.

-Chris

Rabbinic Jews have the "Oral Torah", Messianic Jews follow Rabbi Yeshua instead of following the teachings of Rabbi Akiba.

I personally think Messianic Jews and Catholics have a lot more in common with their rites and rituals. However, Jews and Romans (and their respective Christian churches) had a direct antagonism towards each other. This has lead to terminology that has worked hard to exclude any use of the same words even. Because of the Roman attitudes towards Jews that the Catholic church propagated through the middle ages this has lead a lot of Jews to continually viewing the Catholic church with hostility.

Though in Israel at least Pope John Paul II has done a lot to improve relations between the two groups. Not primarily through the various decrees and statements he has made about them, but the love and compassion he showed as a young priest to holocaust survivors and how such a person friendly to Jews in the Catholic church could become Pope in the first place.

May the Peace of our Lord be with you.

 

[Ruhama]

@Kern -

Yes, the Orthodox have the Oral Tradition but its mentality and methodology are at such odds with traditional Christian thought that the only thing in common really would be the fondness for ritual, I think.

Even then, many Jews perfom ritual because of duty and in order to gain God's favor, not out of celebration as Catholics more usually do.

I think many orthodox are receptive, though - if they will actually hear you in the first place - because they do hold the scriptures in very high esteem and they have been told to ignore the passages that point to Jesus.

 

[SonWorshipper]

Yeshua taught against the teachings of man, in the past and I believe also in the future. So any religion that goes against this , goes against the teachings of the first century church in jerusalem which is what my beliefs in Messianic Judaism are.

 

[Magisterium]

31st January 2003 at 02:24 PM Chris†opher Paul said this in Post #9 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=618565#post618565)

Jesus didnt come to bring peace, but rather, the sword.



(Division for the sake of unity is not true division, nor is it contradictory)

Hmm, Interesting exchange of views here.. I agree with you Christopher. However, I would have worded it differently. I do wonder now though, how messianic judiasm differs from christian protestantism besides the acceptance of the new testament. Both have a really heartfelt love of Christ but reject the authority of the church he founded and the precepts of the Covenant. I also would like to know if messianic judiasm follows the same de-centralized hierichical model of government like traditional post-Jerusalem Judiasm. If not, then who is the authority who determines what is acceptable teaching and what is heretical?

 

[seebs]

Today at 02:43 PM A_B_liever said this in Post #46 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=649276#post649276)

Both have a really heartfelt love of Christ but reject the authority of the church he founded and the precepts of the Covenant.

To be picky, most of us protestants accept the authority of the church Jesus founded - it's called "Christianity", and we get our basic belief structure from it. We just don't accept that the church headquartered in Rome is the entirety of the church Jesus established.

 

[Magisterium]

Well seebs,
I understand your convictions. (I'm an ex-prot. myself) However, your understanding of "christianity" is a loosly knit idea of Love of Jesus and God. It separates Love of God and Christ from ones beliefs and actions in everyday life concerning morality and values. Jesus taught no such relativism in these matters. To the contrary, he taught (as I'm sure you've seen me post before) that the "Church" is indeed the final say. The church cannot include the many contradicting beliefs of sin and morality represented in protestantism. Jesus explained this in his discourse about a house divided being unable to stand. The splintering of the Protestant "house" is the direct result of the rejection of authority. At any rate, this forum is not about Catholics and protestants, I'm here to ask and learn about messianic judaism. If you have someinsight, please share... thanks...

 

[seebs]

Today at 03:28 PM A_B_liever said this in Post #48 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=649386#post649386)
I understand your convictions. (I'm an ex-prot. myself) However, your understanding of "christianity" is a loosly knit idea of Love of Jesus and God. It separates Love of God and Christ from ones beliefs and actions in everyday life concerning morality and values.

No, it doesn't. I believe no such thing.

Jesus taught no such relativism in these matters.

At the same time, Jesus spent an awful lot of time talking about loving God and your neighbor, and very little time talking about all the hundreds of additional laws, except when explaining why He felt comfortable ignoring them - for instance, working on the Sabbath.

To the contrary, he taught (as I'm sure you've seen me post before) that the "Church" is indeed the final say. The church cannot include the many contradicting beliefs of sin and morality represented in protestantism.

Nor, I would think, can it include the contradicting beliefs about morality that you see between, say, "Catholic Church in 1997" and "Catholic Church in 379". Unless, of course, most of the stuff we argue about isn't really that important.

 

[JesusServant]

It gets so old hearing people tell us (non Catholics of any sort) that we do not accept the church that Christ started.  The Church that Christ left us is people.  It is not a building.  It is not an organization.  It is not a debate or parsing Greek and Hebrew words. 

Guess what the Church is?  It is YOU, it is me and it is everyone that God's Spirit dwells in and is a part of God's family!  Your body is to be God's temple on earth now and He no longer lives in a building like in the old covenant where He was only visited by priests in the Holiest of Holies (center of the temple).  Now we have complete communion and fellowship in Spirit with our God and it is awesome!

Some people sound as if God died and left behind a great organization/legacy and we need to join it or suffer His wrath and it frustrates me.  He is alive and well and He lives in people today.  People still receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but the fruits are the most important part of it all.

 

[Magisterium]

Yesterday at 10:01 PM seebs said this in Post #49 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=649439#post649439)

No, it doesn't. I believe no such thing.



At the same time, Jesus spent an awful lot of time talking about loving God and your neighbor, and very little time talking about all the hundreds of additional laws, except when explaining why He felt comfortable ignoring them - for instance, working on the Sabbath.



Nor, I would think, can it include the contradicting beliefs about morality that you see between, say, "Catholic Church in 1997" and "Catholic Church in 379". Unless, of course, most of the stuff we argue about isn't really that important.

Again, I'd love to engage you in debate over the truth and authority of the church, and how NO DOGMA of the church whether in 397 or 1397, or 2397, can be changed, EVER. But again this is not the place for that discussion. This forum is not about Catholics and protestants, I'm here to ask and learn about messianic judaism's position toward Catholicism and the differences. thank you...