Catholic?

[BNR32FAN]

OK then, I'll take that to mean you can't.

Same here

 

[PoppyB]

Same here

Cop out. I asked first.

 

[Albion]

Show me the scripture that says not to.

Do you honestly think that all things we might possibly contemplate, believe, or do are Godly and permissible...just so long as they were not specifically condemned in the Bible????????????

 

[ralfyman]

I hear you and understand. However just to show you where the difference is between us.....you said....
"apostles and their successor bishops ".

Now open your Bible and find that comment.

You see, there are NO Scriptures that say what you posted. NONE! There is no Scripture that validates "Apostolic Succession".

The 2nd thing I would point out to you is that Sola Scriptura is a biblical doctrine not because the Bible says so. That would be a tautology- the kind of argument we find in that collection of lies the Book of Mormon.

Instead the Bible is our alone final authority because it alone is the Word of God. It has been attested, authenticated, by God Himself.

2 Tim. 3:16-17...….
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”

The Bible trumps man’s authority, church tradition, and our own opinions. We as Christians should not allow anything that opposes God’s Word to dictate our actions or control our thinking.

But wasn't this explained to you earlier, that the books of the Christian Bible were selected through authority and other means?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Cop out. I asked first.

I’ve already shown the scriptures support prayers for supplication and the scriptures that prove that the saints are not dead and have eternal life. What scriptures can you present that suggests praying to them is forbidden or not beneficial?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Do you honestly think that all things we might possibly contemplate, believe, or do are Godly and permissible...just so long as they were not specifically condemned in the Bible????????????

All things? Don’t you think that’s a bit of a drastic example? I mean I could simply reverse the same logic and say are we only allowed to do what is written in the scriptures and everything else is forbidden?

 

[concretecamper]

All things? Don’t you think that’s a bit of a drastic example? I mean I could simply reverse the same logic and say are we only allowed to do what is written in the scriptures and everything else is forbidden?

One of my favorite W.C. Field's quotes

“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with B.S.” ― W.C. Fields.

 

[concretecamper]

Cop out. I asked first.

May I ask, how old are you?

 

[PoppyB]

I’ve already shown the scriptures support prayers for supplication and the scriptures that prove that the saints are not dead and have eternal life. What scriptures can you present that suggests praying to them is forbidden or not beneficial?

But I'm sorry I haven't seen any scripture support your claim. I just want you to be kind and give me a verse instead of re-directing me to previous posts. If you won't do that then so be it. God is good.

 

[PoppyB]

May I ask, how old are you?

Why do you want to know?

 

[concretecamper]

Why do you want to know?

Because the words in the post I quoted reminded me of a first grader saying "I know you are, but what am I"

 

[Anthony Edgar]

There is no Scripture that validates "Apostolic Succession".

What is "Apostolic Succession"?

2Tim 3:16-17
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”

1. At the time this verse was written, was any the NT writings considered "Scripture"? The contents of the NT weren't finalised until hundreds of years later, so "Scripture" in this verse would almost certainly be referring to the OT.
2. Notice the words, "equipped for every GOOD WORK" - it says nothing about salvation.

 

[PoppyB]

Because the words in the post I quoted reminded me of a first grader saying "I know you are, but what am I"

Well, in other words you are avoiding the question. I'm surprised you didn't understand 'cop out', perhaps you are older than me.

 

[BNR32FAN]

What is "Apostolic Succession"?


1. At the time this verse was written, was any the NT writings considered "Scripture"? The contents of the NT weren't finalised until hundreds of years later, so "Scripture" in this verse would almost certainly be referring to the OT.
2. Notice the words, "equipped for every GOOD WORK" - it says nothing about salvation.

Paul says many times that he is writing by the guidance of the Holy Spirit. So there was no question as to whether or not his writings were inspired writings or not which is what the church was determining when they canonized the NT.

 

[BNR32FAN]

But I'm sorry I haven't seen any scripture support your claim. I just want you to be kind and give me a verse instead of re-directing me to previous posts. If you won't do that then so be it. God is good.

I have shown evidence in the scriptures to support my claim that prayers to the saints can be beneficial. Keep in mind evidence is not proof. You haven’t shown anything at all to support your view.

 

[PoppyB]

I have shown evidence in the scriptures to support my claim that prayers to the saints can be beneficial. Keep in mind evidence is not proof. You haven’t shown anything at all to support your view.

Ok then if you want to be silly and not show me a scripture, which surely wouldn't be too difficult for you, I will take it that you either have nothing to offer or that you are being stubborn. And please don't tell me you already have because I haven't seen it. All I want is one scripture. Is that too hard?

 

[Major1]

What is "Apostolic Succession"?


1. At the time this verse was written, was any the NT writings considered "Scripture"? The contents of the NT weren't finalised until hundreds of years later, so "Scripture" in this verse would almost certainly be referring to the OT.
2. Notice the words, "equipped for every GOOD WORK" - it says nothing about salvation.

You are of course pulling my leg!

You as a Catholic are on a Christian web site arguing for the Catholic position and you do not know what "Apostolic Succession" is?

The position of the Catholic Pope is the answer. he doctrine of apostolic succession is the belief that the 12 apostles passed on their authority to successors, who then passed the apostolic authority on to their successors, continuing throughout the centuries, even unto today. The Roman Catholic Church sees Peter as the leader of the apostles, with the greatest authority, and therefore his successors carry on the greatest authority. The Roman Catholic Church combines this belief with the concept that Peter later became the first bishop of Rome, and that the Roman bishops that followed Peter were accepted by the early church as the central authority among all of the churches. Apostolic succession, combined with Peter’s supremacy among the apostles, results in the Roman bishop being the supreme authority of the Catholic Church – the Pope.

However, nowhere in Scripture did Jesus, the apostles, or any other New Testament writer set forth the idea of “apostolic succession.”

On top of that is the fact that NO WHERE in the Scriptures is there a command or a teaching or even a suggestion that the office of the Apostle would be passed on to anyone else. It is just not there.
It is a fabricated doctrine by individuals and is NOT Biblical in any way.

Further, neither is Peter presented as “supreme” over the other apostles. The apostle Paul, in fact, rebukes Peter when Peter was leading others astray (Galatians 2:11-14). Yes, the apostle Peter had a prominent role. Yes, perhaps the apostle Peter was the leader of the apostles (although the book of Acts records the apostle Paul and Jesus’ brother James as also having prominent leadership roles). Whatever the case, Peter was not the “commander” or supreme authority over the other apostles. Even if apostolic succession could be demonstrated from Scripture, which it cannot, apostolic succession would not result in Peter’s successors being absolutely supreme over the other apostles’ successors.
Is apostolic succession biblical?

 

[Major1]

But I'm sorry I haven't seen any scripture support your claim. I just want you to be kind and give me a verse instead of re-directing me to previous posts. If you won't do that then so be it. God is good.

It will not be possible for anyone to post a contextual Scripture for you on praying to the dead believers in heaven. Allow me to give you an example:

Rev. 19:10...…………..
"And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said to me, "Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy,".

John wants to bow the knee and worship the angel. But the angel tells him not to do that because he is a fellow creature. If the angel says that he is a fellow creature like John and that John is not to bow to him, then neither should anyone else bow to an angel or any creature so as to offer worship. Worship includes prayer. Therefore, no one should pray to any created thing.

Biblically, prayer is always offered to God and is a form of worship. All religions view prayer as an act of worship to their god(s) since they contain petitions, confession of sin, requests of intercession, etc.,--things which are received and answered by God and not by created things. Also, prayer is not the same thing as talking to someone face-to-face. Prayer is a humble petition to the Lord and not to a friend who's in the same room with you or on the other end of the phone--or in heaven. Prayer is offered to God--never to any created thing. To do so is to offer worship that should only be directed to God, which is idolatry. Prayer should be offered only to God, and the Roman Catholic Church needs to repent of its false and idolatrous practice of praying to the saints.
Is praying to the saints biblical? | CARM.org

I hope this is a help for you in your understanding and future conversations who disagree with you.

 

[Albion]

All things? Don’t you think that’s a bit of a drastic example?

Well, perhaps it seems so, but your proposition was open-ended by its nature, wasn't it?

I mean, if "it’s not in the Bible, so it’s okay" really is your guide, then almost nothing is ruled out.

One person might think that X is unthinkable, but the next person might think the opposite, and if this is the rule....then it actually is "anything goes, just so long as the Bible does not specifically condemn it."

 

[Albion]

Well, in other words you are avoiding the question. I'm surprised you didn't understand 'cop out', perhaps you are older than me.

A person would have to be over 100 to mistake that expression.