Catholic?

[zippy2006]

Perhaps. I'm not privy to any deeper motivations. And I'm not going to even speculate. What was written was good, or at least could be taken in a good way. A needed way. That is not an endorsement of any other post by that poster.

He did say "Its talking to oneself when such stuff is posted, ..." and most of this thread has been talking to oneself while attacking each other. Cor ad cor Loquitur, but not in this thread. Yes, it's a way of praying, but also a way of dialogue. Here, in this thread is is attack and parry, counterattack and parry, but the fighters are more zealous than disciplined, sloppy more than skilled, and many seem to be out for blood. It's a Monty Python parody of fencing. How are we, all of us bought by the blood of Jesus, speaking to hearts in this thread?

I haven't been following the thread too closely, though I have seen threads like this before. My point was that Albion's logic was arbitrary in the sense that there is no reason that it could not be applied to his own posts, posts which are reflective of rote Anglican apologetics.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Well, the anti-Anglicans are not to be overlooked, although I am not going to hold my breath waiting for any Catholic to say that Anglican Bashing isn't a good thing.

Are you justifying yourself or actually aggrieved? I think there is room for improvement on your part as well as mine. I think I did mention Tyburn Tree earlier in this thread.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I haven't been following the thread too closely, though I have seen threads like this before. My point was that Albion's logic was arbitrary in the sense that there is no reason that it could not be applied to his own posts, posts which are reflective of rote Anglican apologetics.

It SHOULD be applied to his own posts, the posts of other anti-Catholics in this thread, and all of us. That was what I found so good about that post. If applied ALL AROUND about 500 of the posts in this thread, many from BOTH sides, would be seen as just plain wrong.

 

[Albion]

I haven't been following the thread too closely, though I have seen threads like this before. My point was that Albion's logic was arbitrary in the sense that there is no reason that it could not be applied to his own posts, posts which are reflective of rote Anglican apologetics.

Actually, Anglicans spend almost NO time working up a story about Henry VIII or how things went, etc.

I am a historian, so I speak to these things when people start posting stories that they picked up somewhere, but it is rare for such a topic to be debated or anything like that in an Anglican church. Not at all like what happens in Catholic circles where defaming other denominations is carefully worked out and taught. And as for Henry--the appointed target for all Roman Catholics--I have never ever heard a single Anglican speak approvingly of him. There is no reason why they should. But with Lutherans, and Methodists, and Calvinists its quite another story when it comes to the figures in their history.

 

[zippy2006]

It SHOULD be applied to his own posts, the posts of other anti-Catholics in this thread, and all of us. That was what I found so good about that post. If applied ALL AROUND about 500 of the posts in this thread, many from BOTH sides, would be seen as just plain wrong.

Perhaps. I suppose I'd say we're back to Wittgenstein's idea that if something applies or refers to everything, then it also applies to nothing. Even if we take the critique as sincere, it may be too all-encompassing to be helpful.

 

[zippy2006]

Actually, Anglicans spend almost NO time working up a story about Henry VIII or how things went, etc.

Then perhaps it's just a coincidence that I've heard that exact same defense from Anglicans a dozen times.

 

[Albion]

Then perhaps it's just a coincidence that I've heard that exact same defense from Anglicans a dozen times.

It is not some kind of defense. What would it be defending against???

It is simply an indication of how silly it is when Catholics think they have the goods on another church by hauling out the "Henry VIII founded his own church because he wanted a divorce" line.

Its not like someone taking a poke at the pope. That's because Catholics revere the pope and his position is a matter of doctrine. Not so Henry, and the claim is so untrue that it has no impact at all upon us--no more than if you charged us with having been founded by Martians wearing sunglasses.

 

[zippy2006]

It is not some kind of defense. What would it be defending against???

It is a defense to the idea that Henry founded his own Church, a claim which Anglicans dislike immensely. Heck, you made the defense in response to a question that wasn't even about the founding of the Anglican Church at all.

Its not like someone taking a poke at the pope. That's because Catholics revere the pope and his position is a matter of doctrine. Not so Henry, and the claim is so untrue that it has no impact at all upon us--no more than if you charged us with having been founded by Martians wearing sunglasses.

If it has no impact then you could probably do with less protesting.

 

[Albion]

It is a defense to the idea that Henry founded his own Church, a claim which Anglicans dislike immensely.

Well, I wouldn't call that a kind of defense. If you have nothing on us, which is the case here, we don't need to defend against it. I suppose that I could just have let the post pass without a comment--and I have done that many times--but I thought in this case of giving him the real facts. You really should not try to make out that it was more than that, let alone the "Anglicans dislike immensely" comment LOL.

If we dislike it, that's only because it is so startlingly ignorant. I would put it in the same category as that one some Protestants have used against Roman Catholics, that the rectory and the convent are connected by an underground tunnel so that the two groups can have orgies unseen and then the babies are thrown into some lye pit, also kept from the outside world. Would that draw a response from you once in a while? If so, is it because you have something to be ashamed of or need to hide?

If it has no impact then you could probably do with less protesting.

It was one post. The rest of this is because of you two trying to make it into more than it was.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Actually, Anglicans spend almost NO time working up a story about Henry VIII or how things went, etc.

I am a historian, so I speak to these things when people start posting stories that they picked up somewhere, but it is rare for such a topic to be debated or anything like that in an Anglican church. Not at all like what happens in Catholic circles where defaming other denominations is carefully worked out and taught. And as for Henry--the appointed target for all Roman Catholics--I have never ever heard a single Anglican speak approvingly of him. There is no reason why they should. But with Lutherans, and Methodists, and Calvinists its quite another story when it comes to the figures in their history.

Post one of this thread was by someone wondering if they should become Catholic. Post two referred the OP to OBOB. Post three of this thread was a post saying "I found through much study that the Catholic Church's claims on all of those matters are untrue". Right off the bat. Then posts 16 and 17 and it was all downhill from there. This thread has had a strong element of defaming the Catholic Church. Without going into every post in the almost 600 post thread the posts from 20 to 80 posts are predominantly Protestant attack and Catholic parry, often crudely done on both sides. So defaming other denominations, who owns up to starting that here?

 

[zippy2006]

...the rectory and the convent are connected by an underground tunnel so that the two groups can have orgies unseen and then the babies are thrown into some lye pit, also kept from the outside world.

Call me crazy, but I guess I don't see this as comparable to the idea that Henry VIII founded the English Church.

Here are the first three Google hits:

• Q. "Which king created the Anglican Church?" A. Henry VIII (Wikipedia)
• Q. "Who created the Anglican Church and why?" A. Henry VIII (BBC)
  
• Q. "Who is the founder of the Anglican Church?" A. The Anglican church was created by edict of the English King, Henry VIII... (Quora)

...Maybe Google, Wikipedia, the BBC, and Quora are all in on the conspiracy?

 

[Albion]

In this case, I agree that the OP, which probably should have been put somewhere else, invited good advice about selecting a church...and then went off topic quickly with people promoting their own church and arguing with each other, etc.

If you check back again, however, I think you will also find that I tried to give an impartial reply based upon the thinking that the writer of the OP gave us. No, I did not like where this thread went.

 

[concretecamper]

It is a defense to the idea that Henry founded his own Church,

Actually, if I were an Anglican, I wouldn't defend Henry founding the Church of England either. I'd run as fast as i could from that fact, despite the truth.

 

[Albion]

Call me crazy, but I guess I don't see this as comparable to the idea that Henry VIII founded the English Church.

Well, then, forget it. I thought it was similarly ridiculous and likely to provoke a reply, but not because it had any truth in it.

 

[chevyontheriver]

In this case, I agree that the OP, which probably should have been put somewhere else, invited good advice about selecting a church...and then went off topic quickly with people promoting their own church and arguing with each other, etc.

If you check back again, however, I think you will also find that I tried to give an impartial reply based upon the thinking that the writer of the OP gave us. No, I did not like where this thread went.

It's time to close this defective thread. Do I get any 'amens'?

 

[concretecamper]

. No, I did not like where this thread went.

Post #3 of the thread

I found through much study that the Catholic Church's claims on all of those matters are untrue -- mainly, that the claims are not supported by the actual history involved.

Then why did you take this thread here?

 

[Not David]

It's time to close this defective thread. Do I get any 'amens'?

OP last activity happened in Jun 21, 2019

 

[Albion]

This should have closed about ten posts ago.

 

[chevyontheriver]

OP last activity happened in Jun 21, 2019

He was the smart one. Not the rest of us.

 

[zippy2006]

It's time to close this defective thread. Do I get any 'amens'?

Can we wait until tomorrow? This is a great place to bolster my patriotic pride by taking pot shots at Englishmen.