Catholic?

[Major1]

They are not found in the Christian Bible because the Church was formed long before the canon of the Christian Bible was established, and these points came or continued from the same tradition that led to that formation.

I think that everyone is aware of that fact. However that does not answer the question.

The fact is that the Catholic church has many doctrines which are not found in the Bible.

Do you personally find it challenging to be in a religion which says it is a Christian religion but has doctrines and practices that are no where to be found in the Christian Bible????

 

[Major1]

I was born and raised Catholic, but gradually drifted away from Christianity altogether after I left school. I ended up believing in New Age ideas like reincarnation and aliens. But I was empty inside, and eventually came back to Christianity via interactions with various non-Catholic denominations (the first of which was the JWs!). The result of this was, I became very anti-Catholic, but on the other hand, I wasn't completely happy with non-Catholic theology. To cut a long story short, I started studying what Catholicism had to say and was really impressed by its intellectual depth and its "ring of truth". So now I'm very happy to be a practising Catholic again and here I will stay, as I truly believe the Catholic Church is the one, true Church that Jesus founded.

No one is born a Catholic my friend. We are born sinners by nature.

 

[PoppyB]

Hi
Im wondering if i should become catholic. I like so much about it and agree with a lot of things. BUt how can i know those missing books are really taken from the bible, if its ok to pray to saints, purgatory...and being in the church but not 'active'? I just wanna know your thoughts/ And this is the church apparently that peter founded and the true church

Don't do it. No it's not ok to pray to saints or Mary. Jesus founded the church.

 

[Anthony Edgar]

You can probably consider Steve Ray's site:

Defenders of the Catholic Faith | Hosted by Stephen K. Ray | Author of "St. John's Gospel", "Upon This Rock", & "Crossing the Tiber"

I will be glad to list several practices that are done by the Catholic religion which can not be found in the Bible and in most cases are that Jesus.
"forbidden" by the Bible...………..
1. Calling the Priests "Father" is forbidden.
2. Praying repetitive words using Rosary beads is forbidden.
3. More praise to the Virgin Mary
4. The Pope says only very special dead Catholic people qualify to be called "saints".
5. The Pope decided to reserve the title of "priest" to worn by church leaders only.
6. Celibacy was first enforced for priests and bishops by Pope Gregory VII.
7. The Catholic church baptizes babies by sprinkling a little water on them.
8. Catholics are taught that only the priests can understand the Bible.
9. The RCC says that the Pope can change what is in the Bible if he wants.

Firstly, there is more to Christianity than the Bible - the early Church existed for hundreds of years without the NT.

Secondly, try getting your facts right by studying what Catholics actually believe, then try studying why - you might be pleasantly surprised - I was.

 

[concretecamper]

Jesus founded the church

Of course He did

 

[ralfyman]

I think that everyone is aware of that fact. However that does not answer the question.

The fact is that the Catholic church has many doctrines which are not found in the Bible.

Do you personally find it challenging to be in a religion which says it is a Christian religion but has doctrines and practices that are no where to be found in the Christian Bible????

I don't because those doctrines appear or stem from sacred tradition that took place before the canon of the Bible was completed, and current sacred tradition originates from the same.

 

[Albion]

I don't because those doctrines appear or stem from sacred tradition that took place before the canon of the Bible was completed, and current sacred tradition originates from the same.

...and what is "sacred tradition," The Sun? It is neither sacred nor tradition, and it is never mentioned in God's word, the Bible. It is whatever the denomination chooses to say has been the mind of the membership ever since the start of the church, although that is a claim that is easily disproven. Then, whatever the alleged opinion happens to be, it is made into a dogma and called another revelation from God equal to the Bible.

 

[Major1]

I don't because those doctrines appear or stem from sacred tradition that took place before the canon of the Bible was completed, and current sacred tradition originates from the same.

The point is that they do NOT come from the Scriptures but instead come from the hearts of sinners...….men!

 

[Albion]

An interesting aspect of this discussion is that the proponents of "Sacred Tradition" usually argue that there were centuries before the Bible was canonized but yet there was a church, so.... (there has to be something in addition, right?)

There are several problems with that theory. Here are a couple--

1. The Bible books were all in use by the churches and considered to be divine revelation PRIOR TO them being assembled into one volume and a church council putting its stamp of approval on it. It is not as though the church was Scripture-less during the first centuries of its history.

2. Sacred Tradition, so called, supposedly believes that if some extra-Biblical teaching or belief has always been believed by the people of God, ever since the start of the Church, then it must be of God--the consensus, that is to say, proves its truth. BUT, none of the beliefs that have been approved by the church leadership on this basis ARE, in fact, of that sort.

They were not universally believed in the church at all, but instead are opinions or legends that affected some members in some places at some times. Sacred Tradition, in other words, violates its own standards.

 

[Major1]

Firstly, there is more to Christianity than the Bible - the early Church existed for hundreds of years without the NT.

Secondly, try getting your facts right by studying what Catholics actually believe, then try studying why - you might be pleasantly surprised - I was.

NOT SO.

The Bible specifically says, without any other possible interpretation, that there is only one God, one faith, one baptism, and one way to God the Father – and that is only through His Son Jesus Christ and His sacrificial death on the cross.

That is ONLY found in the Bible!!!

If my facts are in error, please take the time to respond to the Catholic teachings which are not found in the Christian Bible...…..
1. Calling the Priests "Father" is forbidden.
2. Praying repetitive words using Rosary beads is forbidden.
3. More praise to the Virgin Mary
4. The Pope says only very special dead Catholic people qualify to be called "saints".
5. The Pope decided to reserve the title of "priest" to worn by church leaders only.
6. Celibacy was first enforced for priests and bishops by Pope Gregory VII.
7. The Catholic church baptizes babies by sprinkling a little water on them.
8. Catholics are taught that only the priests can understand the Bible.
9. The RCC says that the Pope can change what is in the Bible if he wants.

 

[Major1]

---SE---

If my facts are in error, please take the time to respond to the Catholic teachings which are not found in the Christian Bible...…..
1. Calling the Priests "Father" is forbidden.
2. Praying repetitive words using Rosary beads is forbidden.
3. More praise to the Virgin Mary
4. The Pope says only very special dead Catholic people qualify to be called "saints".
5. The Pope decided to reserve the title of "priest" to worn by church leaders only.
6. Celibacy was first enforced for priests and bishops by Pope Gregory VII.
7. The Catholic church baptizes babies by sprinkling a little water on them.
8. Catholics are taught that only the priests can understand the Bible.
9. The RCC says that the Pope can change what is in the Bible if he wants.

The point is, if Catholic religion is a Christian one, then why does the RCC teach so many NON-Biblical teachings?

I am a Baptist. If the Baptist faith began to teach a Jehovah Witness theology what YOU say?????

 

[Albion]

If my facts are in error, please take the time to respond to the Catholic teachings which are not found in the Christian Bible...…..
1. Calling the Priests "Father" is forbidden.
2. Praying repetitive words using Rosary beads is forbidden.
3. More praise to the Virgin Mary
4. The Pope says only very special dead Catholic people qualify to be called "saints".
5. The Pope decided to reserve the title of "priest" to worn by church leaders only.
6. Celibacy was first enforced for priests and bishops by Pope Gregory VII.
7. The Catholic church baptizes babies by sprinkling a little water on them.
8. Catholics are taught that only the priests can understand the Bible.
9. The RCC says that the Pope can change what is in the Bible if he wants.

The point is, if Catholic religion is a Christian one, then why does the RCC teach so many NON-Biblical teachings?

I am a Baptist. If the Baptist faith began to teach a Jehovah Witness theology what YOU say?????

For the record, these are not compelling arguments against our inquirer choosing Catholicism, if that should be his choice in the end. All the points come from a Baptist POV, as you admit is the case, and are not even ones that most Protestants would agree with.

That isn't to say that Catholicism is the religion for our friend, but I do not think that these points make much difference in the process and some are even factually incorrect statements. But also, this isn't the place to divert the discussion into an analysis of each of these points, so I am simply saying that most people who belong to other Christian churches would not go along with the list.

 

[Major1]

For the record, these are not compelling arguments against our inquirer choosing Catholicism, if that should be his choice in the end. All the points come from a Baptist POV, as you admit is the case, and are not even ones that most Protestants would agree with.

That isn't to say that Catholicism is the religion for our friend, but I do not think that these points make much difference in the process and some are even factually incorrect statements. But also, this isn't the place to divert the discussion into an analysis of each of these points, so I am simply saying that most people who belong to other Christian churches would not go along with the list.

I have to disagree with you on this.

First of all, I do not care what most people would go along with.

Second, Choosing the teachings of men over the Word of God is in my opinion the basis for anyone to choose any religion.

 

[Albion]

I have to disagree with you on this.

OK

First of all, I do not care what most people would go along with.

Very well, but our task is to inform our inquirer who has a decision to make, and most of those points you listed are of little concern to people who express an admiration for Catholicism but are still reluctant. If he had said that he felt attracted to the Baptist churches but just wasn't sure about it, that would have been a different challenge.

 

[PoppyB]

In my view members of the RC church would choose to obey the teachings of the church over the teachings of Jesus. For example the list that Major1 posted a while ago. And to me that would make me run as far as I could away from that church. Jesus has to be number one, he has to be at the heart and head of any church group, and I'm sorry but in the RC church Mary seems to be more highly honoured than her son. To me that is just plain wrong. Also the RC church won't let non-Catholics partake of the bread and wine, even though they are Christian.

A good few years ago now God spoke into my spirit and told me to pray for the RC church and I have done so. My prayer is that the Holy Spirit will blow through the corridors of power and bring light into the dark places and open peoples eyes and ears to the truth and to see that they have been deceived. Now why would God tell me to do that if it that sort of prayer wasn't needed. I know there will be some who say I've done it off my own bat, so to speak, but I know and believe what God said to me.

 

[Concord1968]

Also the RC church won't let non-Catholics partake of the bread and wine, even though they are Christian.

Other Christian churches also practice closed communion. It's not a uniquely Catholic thing.

 

[A Realist]

Other Christian churches also practice closed communion. It's not a uniquely Catholic thing.

Yup. I belonged to a couple of Baptist congregations that wouldn't let you partake in communion unless you were a member of that specific congregation.....that and other non-biblical practices are why I'm not Baptist anymore.

 

[PoppyB]

Other Christian churches also practice closed communion. It's not a uniquely Catholic thing.

I've never come across it in any other church here in the UK. Perhaps it's a US thing.

 

[Concord1968]

I've never come across it in any other church.

LCMS is closed communion. And, as the A Realist just noted, some Baptist churches are as well. IIRC some Presbyterian churches practice it too.

 

[PoppyB]

LCMS is closed communion. And, as the A Realist just noted, some Baptist churches are as well. IIRC some Presbyterian churches practice it too.

What are LCMS and IIRC?