Catholic way

I was raised Evangelical/Pentecostal, but by a series of numerous circumstances accidentally found myself a Lutheran.

I had been looking into Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and Anglicanism at the time, chiefly because of my desire for fidelity to ancient and apostolic Christian teaching and so I was looking to those churches which sought fidelity to the Church's historic tradition and biblical foundations; I wasn't particularly looking at Lutheranism because it simply wasn't on my radar much at the time.

For me, ultimately, there were several factors that prohibited me from crossing the Tiber to join Rome, though one of the largest was simply that given what I read and studied of the fathers of the Church and Church history I could find no material support for the institution of the papacy. The claims made by Orthodoxy seemed to have a much greater resonance to them as far as what I saw when I made my own personal investigations into Christian history and the writings of the fathers--no singular central authority, but instead a communion of bishops; Christian catholicity not determined by any one bishop, but instead the common faith expressed by all (c.f. the definition of catholicity given by St. Vincent of Lerins in his Commonitorium, ch. 2.6). In all truth, if I were not Lutheran I would almost certainly be either Anglican or Orthodox. As for why I am Lutheran, at the risk of sounding terribly arrogant, it's because of the Gospel; or if perhaps put more clearly, the preaching of the Gospel and the solid and firm distinction made between Law and Gospel.

-CryptoLutheran

Hello, Antig.

I was raised in the Southern Baptist denomination but came to believe in the reality of Sacraments so then I spent some time in an Anglican church. I started reading about Catholicism and seriously considered it, but as I began to find out about Orthodoxy, I found myself completely drawn to it. I'm an Orthodox Christian because I believe Orthodoxy to be the true faith.

I was a Roman Catholic and well-schooled in its teachings. Most of them are fine. But much of Catholic theology is connected by the Church's own claims to historical developments, so when you learn enough to understand that a lot of that history isn't real history, but instead that the Church has had to spin an alternate history in order to have an explanation for why it teaches dogmas that are extra-Biblical and not Apostolic, you naturally think about alternatives.

Ideally, that would be a church with Apostolic roots that represents a "reformed Catholicism" of some sort. You--or I--then seek a church that rejects the errors and corrupt practices that crept into the historic church at one time or another while, at the same time, you retain the teachings and practices that are valid. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater, in other words, is an impulse that anyone might have under these circumstances, but that would be to trade one mistake for another.

Welcome to the forum.

I admire much in Catholicism but I just never could really get past some things like papal infallibility and the overall scholastic and juridical tone, plus my life situation and attitudes never was all that conducive to submitting to the canons of the Catholic church. I was an Eastern Orthodox catechumen for several years and I ran into similar issues, though not as pronounced. I don't say that with pride so much as just resignation to the facts.

But I have also found a good home among the Lutherans and we generally believe all the things Catholics do in the essentials, and we have a similar faith in many ways. As my signature line, among many other things, will attest.

I have benefitted from reading Catholic spiritual writers alot, particularly St. Therese of Lisieux and Brennan Manning. There's lots to like there as a Christian.

As VC said, I'm ultimately Lutheran because I believe in the centrality of the Gospel as the Good News, of God's own story of his unyielding love for a sinful world (the "furious longing of God" as Brennan Manning put it), that the Gospel should not be confused with religion, and that the Gospel is for all people everyewhere.

I was raised in the Independent Baptist Churches of my parents, which I often refer to as the 'anti-Catholic church'. Afterwards, as a young adult, I landed in the Southern Baptist Denomination and spent most of my adult life there.
I was well versed in the history and error(s) - some real, some imagined - of the RCC from a young age. I had grown to reject the papacy, indulgences, and doctrines such as the Immaculate Conception. However, a study of Bible and church history also reveals that the Baptists have a distinct origin in error as well.
Searching for the church of Timothy and Titus* opened my eyes to Orthodoxy and the church established by Jesus and the Apostles. I was Chrismated in 2015 at 52 yrs age.

Κύριε, ἐλέησον and Godspeed you on your journey!

* the search was prompted by the following question; if the students of the Apostle Paul were to visit your church this Sunday, would they recognize it as being Christian?

Antig said:

Can I ask those that are Catholic why you chose the Catholic route and those that are not why you didn'?

My family are Catholic. Strong Catholics. Irish Catholics too! Lol

I have labelled my self here as a Christian. I was baptised and brought into the Catholic faith as a child (7yrs old). Now, as an older adult I am being drawn into the faith but it has been many many years since I left on that day of my first of Holy Communion!

I drifted away from the church. That was approx 40 plus years ago.

I didn't want to post in the predominantly Catholic section as I want my thread open to everyone to post.

I guess I am searching for the truth, or a nudge in the right direction or even just good solid Christian advice. I have my own views on the subject too but want to see how others decided. Thank you

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I became and remain Catholic by the grace of God. There is no other reason.

The drawing that you feel - that is the action of the Holy Spirit. I would just pray and be willing to go where God leads you.

I came into the church as an adult; my parents had been Catholic but were lapsed before I was born, and so I was not churched at all as a child.

Initially I looked at Catholicism - given that it had nurtured my family in faith, and is the largest denomination where I live - but in the end I couldn't come at infallibility of the magisterium. I found myself instead able to be an Anglican with integrity, and this is where I've made my home.

Antig said:

Catholic Church is appealing to me. I am reading more about it. What I like about it is how one can trace it back in history which a lot of the 'modern' churches fail at. Even Protestantism only goes back to around the 16th century?

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Be careful with this last point. Protestantism may be said to go back to the 16th century, but, if that's so, the Catholic Church goes back only to the 4th century. The fact is that most Christian church bodies go back to a common ancestor of the first millennium.

It's not as though they came from nowhere with a completely new set of beliefs. Each split involved defenders of the status quo versus advocates of reforming the church and getting rid of innovations that had gotten into it.

There are a few exceptions, such as the Mormons who have an entirely separate book of Scripture no one had heard of until the 1800s, but, by and large, just about every church goes back to early Christianity.

Albion said:

Be careful with this last point. Protestantism may be said to go back to the 16th century, but, if that's so, the Catholic Church goes back only to the 4th century. The fact is that most Christian church bodies go back to a common ancestor of the first millennium.

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Indeed, years ago I listened to the conservative Lutheran theologian and pastor, Jordan Cooper, just to get to terms with the basics of what it is to be Lutheran, and this is what occured to me. When he talked about the Church Fathers, councils, or theologians like Bernard of Clairvaux, he talked about them in much the same way Orthodox or Catholic Christians do.

In our self-understanding, the Reformation was a minor course correction in a long story of God's people.

Antig said:

Catholic Church is appealing to me. I am reading more about it. What I like about it is how one can trace it back in history which a lot of the 'modern' churches fail at. Even Protestantism only goes back to around the 16th century?

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Exactly.

I pray you find your way to Him

Antig said:

Can I ask those that are Catholic why you chose the Catholic route and those that are not why you didn'?

My family are Catholic. Strong Catholics. Irish Catholics too! Lol

I have labelled my self here as a Christian. I was baptised and brought into the Catholic faith as a child (7yrs old). Now, as an older adult I am being drawn into the faith but it has been many many years since I left on that day of my first of Holy Communion!

I drifted away from the church. That was approx 40 plus years ago.

I didn't want to post in the predominantly Catholic section as I want my thread open to everyone to post.

I guess I am searching for the truth, or a nudge in the right direction or even just good solid Christian advice. I have my own views on the subject too but want to see how others decided. Thank you

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The Church Fathers, the early councils of the Church, and the continuity of teaching are some of the things that keep me Catholic.

I've read that if the Catholic Church wasn't the Church started by Christ, Catholics would have destroyed it by now. A Church, full of sinners of the worst kind, has maintained continuity in doctrine. Simply amazing.

Antig said:

Can I ask those that are Catholic why you chose the Catholic route and those that are not why you didn'?

My family are Catholic. Strong Catholics. Irish Catholics too! Lol

I have labelled my self here as a Christian. I was baptised and brought into the Catholic faith as a child (7yrs old). Now, as an older adult I am being drawn into the faith but it has been many many years since I left on that day of my first of Holy Communion!

I drifted away from the church. That was approx 40 plus years ago.

I didn't want to post in the predominantly Catholic section as I want my thread open to everyone to post.

I guess I am searching for the truth, or a nudge in the right direction or even just good solid Christian advice. I have my own views on the subject too but want to see how others decided. Thank you

Click to expand...

You will and already have had some good advice. May I say to you that choosing between the Catholic faith and the Protestant faith is the wrong choice.

The first and only choice that matters is what you think of The Lord Jesus Christ?

I think that if you read and listen to people as they answer your question, you will se that ne of the first major differences between Catholicism and Protestantism is the issue of the sufficiency and authority of Scripture. Protestants believe that the Bible alone is the source of God’s special revelation to mankind and teaches us all that is necessary for our salvation from sin. Protestants view the Bible as the standard by which all Christian behavior must be measured.

You will see I think that Catholics reject the doctrine of sola scriptura and do not believe that the Bible alone is sufficient. That being the case, they have then ADDED to the Word of God which in it self is not Biblical.

They believe that both the Bible and sacred Roman Catholic tradition are equally binding upon the Christian. Many Roman Catholics doctrines, such as purgatory, praying to the saints, worship or veneration of Mary, have no basis in Scripture but are based solely on Roman Catholic traditions.

The Apostolic Fathers viewed oral tradition between 30 - 100 AD as a duplicate of scripture. They also stated that scripture replaced oral tradition. In other words, there was nothing in oral tradition that was lacking in scripture which is the opposite of Catholic teaching today.

If none of that is a concern for you, then your choice is really pretty easy.

Essentially, the Roman Catholic Church’s denial of sola scriptura and its insistence that both the Bible and tradition are equal in authority undermine the sufficiency, authority, and completeness of the Bible. The view of Scripture is at the root of many, if not all, of the differences between Catholics and Protestants.What are the differences between Catholics and Protestants?

Major1 said:

You will and already have had some good advice. May I say to you that choosing between the Catholic faith and the Protestant faith is the wrong choice.

The first and only choice that matters is what you think of The Lord Jesus Christ?

I think that if you read and listen to people as they answer your question, you will se that ne of the first major differences between Catholicism and Protestantism is the issue of the sufficiency and authority of Scripture. Protestants believe that the Bible alone is the source of God’s special revelation to mankind and teaches us all that is necessary for our salvation from sin. Protestants view the Bible as the standard by which all Christian behavior must be measured.

You will see I think that Catholics reject the doctrine of sola scriptura and do not believe that the Bible alone is sufficient. That being the case, they have then ADDED to the Word of God which in it self is not Biblical.

They believe that both the Bible and sacred Roman Catholic tradition are equally binding upon the Christian. Many Roman Catholics doctrines, such as purgatory, praying to the saints, worship or veneration of Mary, have no basis in Scripture but are based solely on Roman Catholic traditions.

The Apostolic Fathers viewed oral tradition between 30 - 100 AD as a duplicate of scripture. They also stated that scripture replaced oral tradition. In other words, there was nothing in oral tradition that was lacking in scripture which is the opposite of Catholic teaching today.

If none of that is a concern for you, then your choice is really pretty easy.

Essentially, the Roman Catholic Church’s denial of sola scriptura and its insistence that both the Bible and tradition are equal in authority undermine the sufficiency, authority, and completeness of the Bible. The view of Scripture is at the root of many, if not all, of the differences between Catholics and Protestants.What are the differences between Catholics and Protestants?

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I'll be blunt, aside from no Pope and a professed love for Jesus and a general belief in the Trinity, there is precious little that Protestants hold in common as far as doctrine.

For instance, your statement about the Scriptures is far too wooden from a mainline Lutheran perspective. We would never separate the Word of God's authority or efficacy from the gathered community of the baptized (no matter how young), in the style of Muntzerism or the Anabaptists. Salvation for us is not as individualistic or voluntaristic as for most evangelicals, we believe in mutual submission to one another in love and that we are saved together, no matter how weak or incapable, the Word works on us and through us.

In addition, we do not deny that Rome has real sacraments, their Eucharist is valid and the Gospel, though it has been obscured at times, it is present there in many ways. It is present more strongly than some evangelical churches who have opted for moralistic or therapeutic messages that have much less to do with the substance of the Christian religion than what Rome teaches.

Major1 said:

The Apostolic Fathers viewed oral tradition between 30 - 100 AD as a duplicate of scripture. They also stated that scripture replaced oral tradition. In other words, there was nothing in oral tradition that was lacking in scripture which is the opposite of Catholic teaching today.

If none of that is a concern for you, then your choice is really pretty easy.

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That's a good point. Actually two of them.

Talk about Church Fathers and Apostolic teaching, etc. is one thing, but no one can simply make up something and then justify it by claiming that the Fathers said X or the Apostles said Y...when in many cases, we do not have evidence of what they taught and have no way of knowing where or if they departed from what we have in the word of God.

Secondly, and in the case of the RCC, she very definitely holds that there are standards which are to be used when claiming the authority of Tradition, including the Fathers. Whether or not we or anyone else agrees, that is what the church which advocates all of this calls necessary.

In both cases, there must be continuity from the beginning and it must be throughout the Christian (Catholic) world.

Yet, time and again doctrines are fiercely defended by Catholic loyalists which are not in accord with these standards.

But no matter. The terms 'Apostolic teaching' and 'Early Church Fathers' are invoked anyway as though something is proven by simply sticking one of those labels on some doctrinal innovation.

I'm Catholic because I believe it to be the original and true church that Christ started. I'm also Catholic because of my experiences with the Holy Spirit in Catholic sacraments and from praying the rosary. I'm not sure if there are additional steps you have to take to return to the faith since you didn't go through confirmation yet. Maybe try contacting your local diocese to find out the specifics of the steps you need to take.

FireDragon76 said:

I'll be blunt, aside from no Pope and a professed love for Jesus and a general belief in the Trinity, there is precious little that Protestants hold in common as far as doctrine.

For instance, your statement about the Scriptures is far too wooden from a mainline Lutheran perspective. We would never separate the Word of God's authority or efficacy from the gathered community of the baptized (no matter how young), in the style of Muntzerism or the Anabaptists. Salvation for us is not as individualistic or voluntaristic as for most evangelicals, we believe in mutual submission to one another in love and that we are saved together, no matter how weak or incapable, the Word works on us and through us.

In addition, we do not deny that Rome has real sacraments, their Eucharist is valid and the Gospel, though it has been obscured at times, it is present there in many ways. It is present more strongly than some evangelical churches who have opted for moralistic or therapeutic messages that have much less to do with the substance of the Christian religion than what Rome teaches.

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I will be just as blunt my friend............ Thank God that you are correct!!!!

Antig said:

Can I ask those that are Catholic why you chose the Catholic route?

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My simple reason is God's calling. That is not to take a dig at my non-Catholic brethren.

I was raise a Baptist but began having issues when we got a "fire and brimstone" minister. It seemed that all he talked about was condemnation of anyone who had any sin. That just wasn't what I was hearing in our Sunday school classes. So, I quit when I was about 12-13 years old.

I bounced around a number of different churches as I grew older but settled into television evangelists.

I married a Catholic girl and attended Mass with her, I really enjoyed the worship but didn't like some of the dogma, mainly because of the preaching I heard on TV.

Enter God. We had been having a lot of issues in our marriage and as I prayed for help I suddenly heard a very distinct voice saying that only through faith would my marriage work. That was the first time that I heard the voice of God speaking.

I thought that I needed to get her to leave the Catholic Church and follow my ways. after all, I HEARD THE VOICE OF GOD. Wrong.

I was the problem because my faith was actually in myself and not God.

My marriage failed and I was so devastated that I contemplated suicide. Laying on my kitchen floor and a broken man, I cried out to God. I asked what I could do to fix the issue when suddenly God gave me a vision. I suddenly began seeing many of the things which I done wrong and many of the things which I had failed to do right, and the latter numbered so much higher.

This drove me even deeper into my own torment and I cried out again. Suddenly I began to feel this amazing feeling of being loved in a way I had never felt before. God was holding me, comforting me, and showing me a small part of his enormous love for his children.

I asked what I needed to do to keep from falling back into my prideful ways and I again heard his voice saying "Get baptized and fellowship with other Christians". I also knew that he wanted me to join the Catholic Church. I knew that this would challenge me because of the differences between what they taught and what I had been taught.

That was almost 40 years ago and God has led me to understanding Catholic doctrine. I have not accepted Catholic doctrine because the Church says to. I accept the doctrine when God shows that it is worthy of belief.

It is truly wonderful to attend Mass and worship Jesus and listen to the message of Christ's love. I have never heard a single sermon condemning anyone. All is centered on God's love and that resonates within me.

God Bless.