Well, they may believe that Jesus is Lord without seeing themselves as sinful creatures. That is another part of the Gospel that is essential.Even Satan and the demons know and believe that Jesus is Lord...
So Paul distorted the truth? (1 Corinthians 1:11-13) This undermines the underlying theme of there are differing views in the Church. What I think Paul is really saying is that there ought to be unity in essentials an diversity in non essentials. And what is most essential besides the Gospel? As long as we can agree on that (and there are some that don't) then we can still come together and be united.
I do not believe in denominational superiority, only in truth as it's presented in the Bible. Jesus was very specific in what He said and it wasn't to join with others that don't believe what He taught.
I do not know where you are living but that just is not the case. I realize that is what you want to see but that is not reality.
Well, you start off making a claim, "The Protestants understand that the RCC teaches a "work-gospel" that can not save and the Catholic church thinks that Protestants teach a "greasy - grace" gospel that requires nothing more than a simple confession of wrong doing/sin due to the emotional preaching of a man."What is the false claim made in the post?????
All of that is a pretty tough sell when the Eastern Orthodox allowance of contraception and remarriage after divorce comes straight from the popular culture, and is completely inconsistent with Scripture and the ECF.The critical Truth found in the Bible is accessible only by the teaching of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit guides the True Church, as indicated in Scripture, and is present in this Church: the Orthodox Church. What other Church is there that has existed from the beginning, and which has not overthrown the teaching authority of the Holy Spirit and replaced it with some other, whether it be the infallible papal office held by fallible men, or infallible Scripture being read and interpreted by fallible men?
There is a Church that is the "pillar and foundation the of Truth" (1 Timothy 3:15). This is so whether we accept it or not. It is not the Roman church with her pernicious, "logos biased" deviations from Holy Tradition, nor it's daughter: the widely scattered and doctrinally diverse protestant church along with its many and varied sectarian offshoots. It is the Orthodox Church.
This is not denominational superiority, or Orthodox triumphalism. Rather, it is the gift of God and the keeping of His promise to send the Holy Spirit to lead us into all Truth.
IF you have been on this web site for any length of time you have seen that most of the conversations and debates revolve around the conflict between the Catholic faith and the Protestant faith.
There is constant back and forth banter and in the end the difference is still there.
IT seems that the debates always disintegrate into personal combat and verbal wars with the moderators finally ending the thread and in fact I expect that same thing to happen to this thread.
It seems to me that the conflict comes from our basic human nature in dealing with fundamental disagreements concerning eternal truths. The Protestants understand that the RCC teaches a "work-gospel" that can not save and the Catholic church thinks that Protestants teach a "greasy - grace" gospel that requires nothing more than a simple confession of wrong doing/sin due to the emotional preaching of a man.
However, looking deeper than just that the question must be WHY?
In My Opinion the real rift that ignites the debate is rooted in AUTHORITY!
How anyone answers that question always determines the answers to all the other questions.
I think that every Catholic believer will agree that when it comes down to deciding a theological issue about defined Catholic dogma, there isn’t anything to discuss on the Catholic's side because once Rome speaks, it is settled.
Therefore we have the ROOT of the conflict. Whenever there is a theological discussion when trying to debate a Roman Catholic – reason and Scripture are not the Catholic’s final authority; they can always retreat into the “safe zone” of Roman Catholic Authority.
Because of this, the arguments between a Protestant and a Catholic will revolve around one's “private interpretation” of Scripture as against the "official teachings of the Roman Catholic Church."
Catholics claim to successfully avoid the legitimate problems of private interpretation by their reliance on their TRADITION. But that never satisfies the difference but instead merely pushes the question back a step. The truth is that both Roman Catholics and Protestants must, in the end, rely upon their reasoning abilities to choose their authority and their interpretive skills to understand what that authority teaches in order to determine what they will believe. IMO, Protestants are simply more willing to admit that this is the case.[/QUOTE
We will not be able to win over non believers if we keep emphasizing our differences. It is time for churches to focus on common ground.
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Not even the method of 'spacing children' permitted by the Catholic Church would have been accepted in the early Church, and before you get too proud about Rome's stance on divorce;All of that is a pretty tough sell when the Eastern Orthodox allowance of contraception and remarriage after divorce comes straight from the popular culture, and is completely inconsistent with Scripture and the ECF.
It's people like Major1 that always try to bash Catholic doctrine. Again and again. This thread is yet another way of trying to bash Catholic doctrine!
The gates of hell will NOT prevail!
The Catholic church was started in the upper room at Pentecost. People hate that. They hate all things Catholic! I am proud to be a Catholic. This church is guided by the Holy Spirit. It has Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition entwined. It has survived 2,000 years of stormy seas.
Major1 and his gang of merry men will not sink this ship!
The critical Truth found in the Bible is accessible only by the teaching of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit guides the True Church, as indicated in Scripture, and is present in this Church: the Orthodox Church.
The Pharisees and Sadducees did not have the Holy Spirit.That's where you veer off the inspired record... I can provide more than a couple of verses showing the Holy Spirit coming upon individuals, not institutions. The argument that the individual cannot receive teaching from the Holy Ghost without help from a corporate structure does not square with Bible teaching.... if you remember it was the corporate Jewish structure that summarily failed. Do you think God's going to try it the same way again and expect a different result?
Jesus taught us to pray "Our Father", not "My Father.That's what the Holy Ghost was given to us for, to move Gods' people from a corporate, works based experience to an individual, Grace based experience. Remember, the law is now being written on our heart.... that's personal not corporate. Remember Jesus teaching us to pray and repent directly to the Father in His name only? That's personal not corporate.
So Paul distorted the truth? (1 Corinthians 1:11-13) This undermines the underlying theme of there are differing views in the Church.
And what is most essential besides the Gospel? As long as we can agree on that (and there are some that don't) then we can still come together and be united.
My problem with this is it puts each individual in the role of judge deciding which branches of Christianity properly believe what Jesus taught and which do not. I am content to accept that every Christian who can proclaim the Nicene Creed is doing their best to walk in the way of Jesus just as I am.
Wow you posted this today and already 6 pages.IF you have been on this web site for any length of time you have seen that most of the conversations and debates revolve around the conflict between the Catholic faith and the Protestant faith.
There is constant back and forth banter and in the end the difference is still there.
IT seems that the debates always disintegrate into personal combat and verbal wars with the moderators finally ending the thread and in fact I expect that same thing to happen to this thread.
It seems to me that the conflict comes from our basic human nature in dealing with fundamental disagreements concerning eternal truths. The Protestants understand that the RCC teaches a "work-gospel" that can not save and the Catholic church thinks that Protestants teach a "greasy - grace" gospel that requires nothing more than a simple confession of wrong doing/sin due to the emotional preaching of a man.
However, looking deeper than just that the question must be WHY?
In My Opinion the real rift that ignites the debate is rooted in AUTHORITY!
How anyone answers that question always determines the answers to all the other questions.
I think that every Catholic believer will agree that when it comes down to deciding a theological issue about defined Catholic dogma, there isn’t anything to discuss on the Catholic's side because once Rome speaks, it is settled.
Therefore we have the ROOT of the conflict. Whenever there is a theological discussion when trying to debate a Roman Catholic – reason and Scripture are not the Catholic’s final authority; they can always retreat into the “safe zone” of Roman Catholic Authority.
Because of this, the arguments between a Protestant and a Catholic will revolve around one's “private interpretation” of Scripture as against the "official teachings of the Roman Catholic Church."
Catholics claim to successfully avoid the legitimate problems of private interpretation by their reliance on their TRADITION. But that never satisfies the difference but instead merely pushes the question back a step. The truth is that both Roman Catholics and Protestants must, in the end, rely upon their reasoning abilities to choose their authority and their interpretive skills to understand what that authority teaches in order to determine what they will believe. IMO, Protestants are simply more willing to admit that this is the case.
Point being? I never claimed to be the only one that can access the Father.The Pharisees and Sadducees did not have the Holy Spirit.
Jesus taught us to pray "Our Father", not "My Father.
Why would you think your neighbor is confused?I think our baptist neighbor here is confused that not everybody buys into his notions of religious voluntarism.
I would gather it would be the difference between Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodoxy.What is the difference between Tradition and the authority vested in the Pope?????
Do you have a list of the apostolic oral traditions we can't find in Sacred Scriptures?Tradition comprises the teachings of our Lord Jesus and the Apostles that are not recorded in Sacred Scripture. You yourself believe some of that Tradition.
Edit: Actually, I think the above definition is technically incorrect from a Catholic perspective. We would consider Tradition to include both Sacred Scripture (written Tradition) and oral Tradition (the teachings not found in Scripture).
Are you Catholic?Gee, if I were a Catholic I'd be offended by all the anti-Catholic statements in your post.
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