• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

Catholic view of Hell?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Is it eternal torment, or eternal death?

I have a hard time imagining our loving Father sending anyone to a place of eternal torment. No matter how bad their crimes were, I don't see Him condeming them to torture for all time.

Someone in another thread mentioned that Hell is a metaphor for being 'dead' and eternally separate from God.

This seems reasonable to me...but what is the Catholic teaching on this subject?
 

isshinwhat

Pro Deo et Patria
Apr 12, 2002
8,338
624
Visit site
✟13,555.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
From the Catechism
1035. "The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of Hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into Hell, where they suffer the punishments of Hell, 'eternal fire.' The chief punishment of Hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs."

Neal
 
Upvote 0

MatthewDiscipleofGod

Senior Veteran
Feb 6, 2002
2,993
268
48
Minnesota
Visit site
✟28,937.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
God can't be Just if he doesn't punish those who reject them. What's fair only God knows. We have no wisdom compared to God when it comes to these matters and that's why when it comes to this kind of judging we are told to leave it to God.
 
Upvote 0

isshinwhat

Pro Deo et Patria
Apr 12, 2002
8,338
624
Visit site
✟13,555.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
It may seem hard to accept, but Jesus suffered for the sins of those who follow Him. Who suffers for those who don't? My guess would be they do, and since their sacrifice would not have the infinite merit and perfect quality of Christ's, could it ever be enough? The Church teaches that the sufferings of Hell are real and eternal, but other than separation, it doesn't teach what they are. Pray for those who don't follow Christ.

Neal
 
Upvote 0

supermagdalena

The Shrubs and the Flan.
Jan 27, 2002
1,135
26
38
Suburbia, USA
Visit site
✟2,068.00
Faith
Non-Denom
The thing is, we can't look at God's fairness by our idea of fairness. We can't say what "good" and "just" because we can't imagine true goodness or true justness. All we can say is God is good and just. We are not. So who are we to say that God couldn't send "good" people to Hell? If they haven't accepted the Sacrifice, their sin separates them from God.

I want to know the ACTUAL Catholic belief since a lot of my friends who are Catholic have made up their own.
 
Upvote 0

KC Catholic

Everybody's gone surfin'...Surfin' U.S.A
Feb 5, 2002
4,010
76
58
Overland Park, KS
✟29,387.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The eternal nature of hell is stressed in the New Testament. For example, in Mark 9:47–48 Jesus warns us, "t is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, where the worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched." And in Revelation 14:11, we read: "And the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever; and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."

Hell is not just a theoretical possibility. Jesus warns us that real people go there. He says, "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few" (Matt. 7:13–14).

For these reasons, the Catholic Church is absolutely firm in teaching the reality of hell. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: "The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, ‘eternal fire.’ The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs" (CCC 1035).

In his 1994 book, Crossing the Threshold of Hope, Pope John Paul II wrote that too often "preachers, catechists, teachers . . . no longer have the courage to preach the threat of hell" (p. 183).

Concerning the reality of hell, the pope says, "In point of fact, the ancient councils rejected the theory . . . according to which the world would be regenerated after destruction, and every creature would be saved; a theory which abolished hell. . . . [T]he words of Christ are unequivocal. In Matthew’s Gospel he speaks clearly of those who will go to eternal punishment (cf. Matt. 25:46). [But] who will these be? The Church has never made any pronouncement in this regard" (pp. 185–6).

Thus the issue that some will go to hell is decided, but the issue of who in particular will go to hell is undecided.
 
Upvote 0

isshinwhat

Pro Deo et Patria
Apr 12, 2002
8,338
624
Visit site
✟13,555.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
I want to know the ACTUAL Catholic belief since a lot of my friends who are Catholic have made up their own.

Your wish is my command. This is from the Catechism. It is only one passage, but it sums the others up nicely.

1035. "The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of Hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into Hell, where they suffer the punishments of Hell, 'eternal fire.' The chief punishment of Hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs."

Neal
 
Upvote 0

nyj

Goodbye, my puppy
Feb 5, 2002
20,976
1,304
USA
Visit site
✟54,248.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM

Hell is the State of Those who Reject God

At the General Audience of Wednesday, 28 July 1999, the Holy Father reflected on hell as the definitive rejection of God. In his catechesis, the Pope said that care should be taken to interpret correctly the images of hell in Sacred Scripture, and explained that "hell is the ultimate consequence of sin itself... Rather than a place, hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy".

1. God is the infinitely good and merciful Father. But man, called to respond to him freely, can unfortunately choose to reject his love and forgiveness once and for all, thus separating himself for ever from joyful communion with him. It is precisely this tragic situation that Christian doctrine explains when it speaks of eternal damnation or hell. It is not a punishment imposed externally by God but a development of premises already set by people in this life. The very dimension of unhappiness which this obscure condition brings can in a certain way be sensed in the light of some of the terrible experiences we have suffered which, as is commonly said, make life "hell".

In a theological sense however, hell is something else: it is the ultimate consequence of sin itself, which turns against the person who committed it. It is the state of those who definitively reject the Father's mercy, even at the last moment of their life.

Hell is a state of eternal damnation

2. To describe this reality Sacred Scripture uses a symbolical language which will gradually be explained. In the Old Testament the condition of the dead had not yet been fully disclosed by Revelation. Moreover it was thought that the dead were amassed in Sheol, a land of darkness (cf. Ez. 28:8; 31:14; Jb. 10:21f.; 38:17; Ps 30:10; 88:7, 13), a pit from which one cannot reascend (cf. Jb. 7:9), a place in which it is impossible to praise God (cf. Is 38:18; Ps 6:6).

The New Testament sheds new light on the condition of the dead, proclaiming above all that Christ by his Resurrection conquered death and extended his liberating power to the kingdom of the dead.

Redemption nevertheless remains an offer of salvation which it is up to people to accept freely. This is why they will all be judged "by what they [have done]" (Rv 20:13). By using images, the New Testament presents the place destined for evildoers as a fiery furnace, where people will "weep and gnash their teeth" (Mt 13:42; cf. 25:30, 41), or like Gehenna with its "unquenchable fire" (Mk 9:43). All this is narrated in the parable of the rich man, which explains that hell is a place of eternal suffering, with no possibility of return, nor of the alleviation of pain (cf. Lk. 16:19-3 1).

The Book of Revelation also figuratively portrays in a "pool of fire" those who exclude themselves from the book of life, thus meeting with a "second death" (Rv. 20:13f.). Whoever continues to be closed to the Gospel is therefore preparing for 'eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might" (2 Thes 1:9).

3. The images of hell that Sacred Scripture presents to us must be correctly interpreted. They show the complete frustration and emptiness of life without God. Rather* than a place, hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy. This is how the Catechism of the Catholic Church summarizes the truths of faith on this subject: "To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called 'hell'" (n. 1033).

"Eternal damnation", therefore, is not attributed to God's initiative because in his merciful love he can only desire the salvation of the beings he created. In reality, it is the creature who closes himself to his love. Damnation consists precisely in definitive separation from God, freely chosen by the human person and confirmed with death that seals his choice for ever. God's judgement ratifies this state.

We are saved from going to hell by Jesus who conquered Satan

4. Christian faith teaches that in taking the risk of saying "yes" or "no", which marks the human creature's freedom, some have already said no. They are the spiritual creatures that rebelled against God's love and are called demons (cf. Fourth Lateran Council, DS 800-801). What happened to them is a warning to us: it is a continuous call to avoid the tragedy which leads to sin and to conform our life to that of Jesus who lived his life with a "yes" to God.

Eternal damnation remains a real possibility, but we are not granted, without special divine revelation, the knowledge of whether or which human beings are effectively involved in it. The thought of hell — and even less the improper use of biblical images — must not create anxiety or despair, but is a necessary and healthy reminder of freedom within the proclamation that the risen Jesus has conquered Satan, giving us the, Spirit of God who makes us cry "Abba, Father!" (Rm. 8:15; Gal. 4:6).

This prospect, rich in hope, prevails in Christian proclamation. It is effectively reflected in the liturgical tradition of the Church, as the words of the Roman Canon attest: "Father, accept this offering from your whole family ... save us from final damnation, and count us among those you have chosen".




*[Note: The original Italian says, "(Più che) More than a place, hell indicates..." This suggests correctly that although hell is not essentially "a place," rather the definitive loss of God,_ confinement is included. Thus, after the general resurrection the bodies of the damned, being bodies not spirits, must be in "some place," in which they will receive the punishment of fire.]
 
Upvote 0

Defender of the Faith 777

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2002
1,121
4
Visit site
✟2,076.00
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Here's how I view hell:

God created it in the beginning as a place for torment... but, HE DOES NOT CONTINUE TO ADD COALS TO THE FIRE. In other words, it is merely seperation from God, then we create the hell. If God were to ignore the world today from this point on, in hours, an EXACT replication of hell would emerge.

God doesn't enjoy sending people to hell. He just loves us SO MUCH, but cannot co-dwell with sin. God would have to cease being God to do that.
 
Upvote 0

Defender of the Faith 777

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2002
1,121
4
Visit site
✟2,076.00
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Is it isolation? Never really thought hard on hell. I try to avoid thinking about it, if you can understand. I just think about heaven, for encouragement, salvation, and other stuff.

I'm not very adept at sharing my views of hell. Where do you get your understanding (Biblical).
 
Upvote 0

supermagdalena

The Shrubs and the Flan.
Jan 27, 2002
1,135
26
38
Suburbia, USA
Visit site
✟2,068.00
Faith
Non-Denom
*Rev. 20:7-15
*Luke 16:19-31 (really think about this one, the man is in so much torment that one drop of water is all he wants...vs. 26: v. 26 "...between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those that want to go from here (heaven) to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'")
*1 corinthians 15
*Rev. 14:9
*matt 13:49-50
*mark 9: 43-45

Hope this helps.
 
Upvote 0

kern

Miserere Nobis
Apr 14, 2002
2,171
7
45
Florida, USA
Visit site
✟3,249.00
Faith
Catholic
Luke 16:19-31 is a parable.

If it is not, then you are suggesting that people in Hell can talk to people in Heaven, which completely contradicts your "isolation" viewpoint. Also, that passage of Luke presents Hell and Heaven as places you go which are opposite what you experienced in life -- if your life was hard and full of suffering then you go to Heaven, if you were rich and secure then you go to Hell. These statements are at odds with many other places in the Bible; I don't see how it can be taken as a literal account.

-Chris
 
Upvote 0

kern

Miserere Nobis
Apr 14, 2002
2,171
7
45
Florida, USA
Visit site
✟3,249.00
Faith
Catholic
I don't know. That's not a part of Christianity I dwell on very much. I personally find it inconceivable that anyone will be tortured for eternity. That may go against official teachings or the Bible, but that's how I feel. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone will go to heaven, but I don't have any strong beliefs on the nature of hell or who goes there.

-Chris
 
Upvote 0

nyj

Goodbye, my puppy
Feb 5, 2002
20,976
1,304
USA
Visit site
✟54,248.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Originally posted by kern
I personally find it inconceivable that anyone will be tortured for eternity.

Define torture Kern.

BTW: If you're up for a good read on Hell, read the book Dare We Hope? That All Men Be Saved? by theologian and priest, the late Hans Urs Von Balthasar. Rev. Von Balthasar is a favorite read of the Holy Father, and the Pope even quotes him in his own book Crossing the Threshold of Hope.
 
Upvote 0

kern

Miserere Nobis
Apr 14, 2002
2,171
7
45
Florida, USA
Visit site
✟3,249.00
Faith
Catholic
Dictionary definition of torture. Like a fire and brimstone hell. Or alone in darkness hell. Anything that would be considered cruel and unusual punishment by the USA.

I've heard the rhetoric defending it, but I remain unconvinced. In any case I don't find hell theology very important to my faith.

-Chris
 
Upvote 0

Defender of the Faith 777

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2002
1,121
4
Visit site
✟2,076.00
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
This says that hell is isolation from God... I knew that if you read my other posts. I was just wondering, are we isolated from others as well? I mean, like you won't see anybody else there? Is it possible for you to answer that, or is it something not clarified in the Bible. TTYL Jesus loves you!
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.