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Your comments made it clear that you didn't even know what the teaching regarding purgatory is.
You are like many lapsed Catholics who never learned the faith. It is a shame because it is probably not your fault.
It is your fault, however, when you misrepresent Church teaching today.
I was expecting better.
Good grief!
Yes, why would you think different?
What did Jesus say the Holy Ghost would do? Lead us into all truth, convicting the world of sin, leading us to Christ. Do you get the picture?
If your hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ and the convictions by the Spirit, who are you rejecting? If you reject it.
I guess that's a fair reply since you don't know me. But as time goes by I believe you will feel different.Your comments made it clear that you didn't even know what the teaching regarding purgatory is.
You shouldn't be judging me, again, you don't know me. I on the other hand understand you, I realize why you believe as you do. And you know what? that's ok.You are like many lapsed Catholics who never learned the faith. It is a shame because it is probably not your fault.
Please, show me where I have misrepresented the RCC, I am willing to listen and hear your side of it.It is your fault, however, when you misrepresent Church teaching today.
I assume their talking about Sacred Tradition?Good Day,
That is a very novel way of interpreting John 16:12, is that yours or your denominations??
If it is the later, would you have the source?
If it not the later (but your own private interpretation) you would have to agree you could be in error as you infallible interpreter of scripture has yet to weigh in on the passage.
In Him,
Bill
Through the truth in the word. Not by fables and old wives tales.There is nothing novel about it.
Jesus promised that the Church would be led into ALL truth and that the gates of Hell would not prevail against it.
Clear enough?
Thank you for sharing.Reason I say so is because Christ said rejecting the Father was forgiveable, since rejecting either the Father or the Holy Ghost is akin to rejecting Christ (since they're the same yet not) we have a contradiction.
How I interpret that part of scripture is this: denying absolute truth which you cannot deny. We can profess to reject God, yet we will be forgiven because we know nothing. However, if the Holy Ghost visited you one day and enlightened you with the Truth which goes beyond human comprehension and any forms of logic, yet you choose to reject it, you are committing an unforgivable since. From this I hypothesise that Angels who rebelled from God will suffer the same treatment from this verse.
Well during certain times it was not an option.Well I learned something. I have always assumed priestly celibacy in the catholic church was not an option.
Your mistaken here, I do hope it does not turn into one. Go back and read through, you should notice there are some who do want a good discussion. One problem is, some RC's don't want to discuss things, just make claims and cast judgements. But not all.Also I see the weekly catholic bashing thread begins. I expect 1 more before the week ends.
Scripture doesn't instruct us to observe the Feast of the Nativity (Christmas). We, that is Christians, do that because we love our Lord Jesus Christ. And the liturgical date is December 25th, following the ancient practice of the Church.
I certainly don't see any biblical teaching that forbids us from honoring the Lord's birth.
But since we're talking things not expressly commanded in Scripture as though they are in and of themselves a problem, perhaps we could start with the Bible itself. I've yet to actually see anywhere in Scripture that teaches
A) A definitive biblical canon and where that canon is itself defined
B) That we are restricted only to the use of Scripture as defined by such a canon.
Now here's the thing. I'm a Lutheran, we're the Sola Scriptura folks. And yet we've never had a problem with the traditions of the ancient Christian Church save for when they conflict with Scripture--that's actually what Sola Scriptura refers to. You see Sola Scriptura does not refer to some sort of "Bible Onlyism", instead it refers to Scripture alone being the infallible Regula Fidei and Norma Normans; that is, the infailing rule of faith and norming norm of Christianity. It means Scripture is the final court of appeal, and we say that in order to regulate doctrine and practice in order that we do not deviate from "the faith once and for all delivered to the saints" in order that we remain faithful and true to the Church's historic and ancient confession, its orthodoxy, and its catholicity.
It isn't a sledgehammer to go ahead smashing at the pillars and foundations of the household of faith and rebuild it from the ground up with the opinions and traditions of men--as has been the practice of most of Protestantism.
-CryptoLutheran
I would think anyone who desires truth would pay attention to Paul's warning in Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
So far I have mainly looked at Purgatory, basically where it started and by whom. It's history, an early church fact.
The RCC will claim it believed in Purgatory in the first churches because it prayed for the dead, therefore this practice was becoming common by the beginning of the 3ed century. However, it does not prove at all that the early church believed in or practiced the doctrine of Purgatory.
In fact records show from early writings from the catacombs viewed that believers who have died resided in peace and happiness (not a Purgatory) and these prayers were for them to have a greater experience of this.
So we believers should take heed to Paul's words to the Colossian church. Quite simply, Purgatory is a man made doctrine. Scripture teaches that a believer is complete in Christ and Christ's work on the cross is sufficient to deal with the entire penalty for sin.
Me too.Just checking in.
......List errors and inventions/traditions invented by the Papacy aka Roman catholicism.
Your mistaken here, I do hope it does not turn into one. Go back and read through, you should notice there are some who do want a good discussion. One problem is, some RC's don't want to discuss things, just make claims and cast judgements. But not all.
Yes, it's always an option. For the first thousand or so years of Christian history, married clergy were the norm. Even after the celibacy rule was adopted for the Latin rites--but not the others--no one was forced to be celibate. If you didn't, or don't, want celibacy, you don't have to enroll in seminary and seek ordination.Well I learned something. I have always assumed priestly celibacy in the catholic church was not an option.
I don't feel that it's a big issue, but some people do...and for them, the idea of retreating from the world in order to work on one's own spiritual life amounts to turning your back on the great commission to evangelize the world and/or to be in the world while not being of the world.Also, I am a divided on monastic orders. While I applaud the individual's personal dedication to Christ by voluntarily choosing a life of poverty, I am not a fan of their reclusive communities.[ie they sort of wall themselves off from the world] Then again, they aren't reclusive as they are merely living in a community to support themselves because of their poverty. hmm
Sadly, I believe you are correct.Oh it will, but it will not be no fault of your own. I am sure you will try to keep it civil. People are religious fascists when it comes to their traditions, whether it is thousands of years old or 10 minutes old. People cling to their religion more than their faith and will abandon the latter to defend the former. A most confusing conundrum as a christian.
So why did you follow the vain philosophy and empty deceptions of Calvin?I would think anyone who desires truth would pay attention to Paul's warning in Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
So far I have mainly looked at Purgatory, basically where it started and by whom. It's history, an early church fact.
The RCC will claim it believed in Purgatory in the first churches because it prayed for the dead, therefore this practice was becoming common by the beginning of the 3ed century. However, it does not prove at all that the early church believed in or practiced the doctrine of Purgatory.
They do? Then if you know this then you could provide evidence of this assertion.In fact records show from early writings from the catacombs viewed that believers who have died resided in peace and happiness (not a Purgatory) and these prayers were for them to have a greater experience of this.
No purgatory is a doctrine that comes from Divine Revelation, Sola Fide on the other hand is an example of a man-made doctrine, if you want to know what one looks like.So we believers should take heed to Paul's words to the Colossian church. Quite simply, Purgatory is a man made doctrine. Scripture teaches that a believer is complete in Christ and Christ's work on the cross is sufficient to deal with the entire penalty for sin.
Well it really is not doctrine, but discipline. Kind of like if you are member of the military for example, you have to wear a certain uniform, and carry yourself in a certain way.Well I learned something. I have always assumed priestly celibacy in the catholic church was not an option.
Well pedophilia isn't only a single person problem. If only it was that simple. No it is a sickness that crosses many walks of life.I guess this throws out the idea that RCC doctrine is making priestly pedophiles,[no marriage to "release sexual urges"], but nope, those fellas just had problems to begin with.
Didn't do that no body would have nothing to talk about.Also I see the weekly catholic bashing thread begins. I expect 1 more before the week ends.
One of the things you also have to realize it really depends upon the order. There are some order that do separate themselves from society as much as they can, such as Benedictian orders; but many orders are orders of service, i.e. they manage schools and hospitals and other service related activities; others are missionary in practice; others require the members to work outside the order, etc.Also, I am a divided on monastic orders. While I applaud the individual's personal dedication to Christ by voluntarily choosing a life of poverty, I am not a fan of their reclusive communities.[ie they sort of wall themselves off from the world] Then again, they aren't reclusive as they are merely living in a community to support themselves because of their poverty. hmm
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