Catholic Teachings.... Backed by Scripture??

Hentenza said:

lol No where in the bible does it state that you must believe only what is in the bible. The Mormons believe many things that are not in the bible and so do the JWs. However, the option that you bring to the table is "T"radition but there are many "T"raditions, so which one is co-authoritative with scripture? Yours? EO? OO? Mormons? Others?

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Thank you.

concretecamper said:

Would you care to answer the question? The question is: Where in the bible does it say that you must believe what is only in the bible?

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Good Day, Concretecamper

Do you even know what the historical Christian doctrine of Sola Scriptura is?

In Him,

Bill

Hentenza said:

lol No where in the bible does it state that you must believe only what is in the bible. The Mormons believe many things that are not in the bible and so do the JWs. However, the option that you bring to the table is "T"radition but there are many "T"raditions, so which one is co-authoritative with scripture? Yours? EO? OO? Mormons? Others?

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Just ask "their" guy....

concretecamper said:

You have things backwards. Everything in the Bible is consistent with Church Teaching. The bible was never intended to be a complete user's manual. If it was intended so, I will wait patiently for your proof.

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Just to refocus on the original question. Still waiting for the OP to provide some biblical evidence.

BBAS 64 said:

Good Day, Concretecamper

Do you even know what the historical Christian doctrine of Sola Scriptura is?

In Him,

Bill

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I am simply asking the OP to provide some scriptural evidence that substantiates his premise.

concretecamper said:

You are the one who start a thread to highlight which Catholic teachings were not in scripture. All I did was ask to prove your premise that "all teachings must come from scripture". and to prove that point, you must show me where it says that is scripture.

I will give you the answer...you can't because scripture does not teach that.

1. Your presupposition is that all teachings must come from scripture.
2. That presupposition is from an authority outside of scripture.
3. That authority may be your pastor or someone in your family.
4. So your entire way of looking at scripture is from a law of man.

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concretecamper said:

I am simply asking the OP to provide some scriptural evidence that substantiates his premise.

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Good Day,

Well I am not the OP.... and I would say that it is clear even in this thread that there are teaching with in the Roman catholic denomination that fall out side of the scriptures and are required by that denomination to believe and are binding to it's faithful.

I am ok with that as I am not of that denomination.

But I do hold to the historic christian doctrine of Sola Scriptura, which you seem to misunderstand.

The premise is the scripture is God-Breathed-out and as such has the same authority as God himself and is the only thing that carries that authority.



In Him,

Bill

concretecamper said:

I am simply asking the OP to provide some scriptural evidence that substantiates his premise.

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1.Your presupposition is that all teachings must come from scripture.
2. That presupposition is from an authority outside of scripture.
3. That authority may be your pastor or someone in your family.
4. So your entire way of looking at scripture is from a law of man.
__________________



1. No that is not what the doctrine of Sola scriptura teaches...
2. presumes statement 1 is accurate
3. assumes that statement 2 is accurate.
4. assumes that statement 1,2,3 are accurate which they are not.

You are incorrect from the get go....

See if you find this help full:

What the Christian doctrine of Sola Scriptura is not;

First of all, it is not a claim that the Bible contains all knowledge. The Bible is not exhaustive in every detail. John 21:25 speaks to the fact that there are many things that Jesus said and did that are not recorded in John, or in fact in any book in the world because the whole books of the world could not contain it. But the Bible does not have to be exhaustive to function as the sole rule of faith for the Church. We do not need to know the color of Thomas’ eyes. We do not need to know the menu of each meal of the Apostolic band for the Scriptures to function as the sole rule of faith for the Church.

Secondly, it is not a denial of the Church’s authority to teach God’s truth. I Timothy 3:15 describes the Church as “the pillar and foundation of the truth.” The truth is in Jesus Christ and in His Word. The Church teaches truth and calls men to Christ and, in so doing, functions as the pillar and foundation thereof. The Church does not add revelation or rule over Scripture. The Church being the bride of Christ, listens to the Word of Christ, which is found in God-breathed Scripture.

Thirdly, it is not a denial that God’s Word has been spoken. Apostolic preaching was authoritative in and of itself. Yet, the Apostles proved their message from Scripture, as we see in Acts 17:2, and 18:28, and John commended those in Ephesus for testing those who claimed to be Apostles, Revelation 2:2. The Apostles were not afraid to demonstrate the consistency between their teaching and the Old Testament.

And, finally, sola scriptura is not a denial of the role of the Holy Spirit in guiding and enlightening the Church.

In Him,

Bill

BBAS 64 said:

The premise is the scripture is God-Breathed-out and as such has the same authority as God himself and is the only thing that carries that authority.



In Him,

Bill

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That's not even what scripture teaches!

Scripture tells us that to listen to those sent by Jesus is to listen to him.

Scripture tells us that the leaders of the Church have the authority to bind and loose.


So, scripture tells us that scripture is NOT the only authority.

concretecamper said:

Thank you.

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That's it? Are you conceding the sole authority of scripture over the many "T"raditions?

BBAS 64 said:

See if you find this help full:

What the Christian doctrine of Sola Scriptura is not;

First of all, it is not a claim that the Bible contains all knowledge.........

Secondly, it is not a denial of the Church’s authority to teach God’s truth.........

Thirdly, it is not a denial that God’s Word has been spoken........

And, finally, sola scriptura is not a denial of the role of the Holy Spirit in guiding and enlightening the Church.

In Him,

Bill

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I would much rather start another thread because I can see things getting lost and the OP not answering my question.

But....using your explanation, the Church's dogma on purgatory is acceptable

concretecamper said:

Would you care to answer the question? The question is: Where in the bible does it say that you must believe what is only in the bible?

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Pardon me, but believe to what purpose? To know what to have for lunch or what color candle to use this Sunday?

The scripture is clear, however, that it is the source of all things salvific. This is written so you might believe and believing have life.

Hope that helps.

concretecamper said:

There is only One Church

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Choose whatever term you prefer then--"ecclesial community," "denomination," "communion"....

and answer the question.

Standing Up said:

The scripture is clear, however, that it is the source of all things salvific. This is written so you might believe and believing have life.

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Wrong.

John 20:23
If you forgive anyone's sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

1 John 4
6We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.


John 6
53Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

concretecamper said:

I would much rather start another thread because I can see things getting lost and the OP not answering my question.

But....using your explanation, the Church's dogma on purgatory is acceptable

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Start the thread I will be there...,

this should be included in the thread with the other post:

The doctrine of sola scriptura, simply stated, is that the Scriptures and the Scriptures alone are sufficient to function as the regula fide, the “rule of faith” for the Church. All that one must believe to be a Christian is found in Scripture and in no other source. That which is not found in Scripture is not binding upon the Christian conscience. To be more specific, I provide the following definition:

The Bible claims to be the sole and sufficient rule of faith for the Christian Church. The Scriptures are not in need of any supplement. Their authority comes from their nature as God-breathed revelation. Their authority is not dependent upon man, Church or council. The Scriptures are self-consistent, self-interpreting, and self-authenticating. The Christian Church looks at the Scriptures as the only and sufficient rule of faith and the Church is always subject to the Word, and is constantly reformed thereby.


Could you post your interpretation of II Timothy 3:16-17 also if your denomination has one that may be helpful as well.. I will more than likely post a wide range of ECF with their interpretations as well, and asking you why yours or your denominations are better/valid than those.


In Him,

Bill

BBAS 64 said:

Start the thread I will be there...,

this should be included in the thread with the other post:

The doctrine of sola scriptura, simply stated, is that the Scriptures and the Scriptures alone are sufficient to function as the regula fide, the “rule of faith” for the Church. All that one must believe to be a Christian is found in Scripture and in no other source. That which is not found in Scripture is not binding upon the Christian conscience. To be more specific, I provide the following definition:

The Bible claims to be the sole and sufficient rule of faith for the Christian Church. The Scriptures are not in need of any supplement. Their authority comes from their nature as God-breathed revelation. Their authority is not dependent upon man, Church or council. The Scriptures are self-consistent, self-interpreting, and self-authenticating. The Christian Church looks at the Scriptures as the only and sufficient rule of faith and the Church is always subject to the Word, and is constantly reformed thereby.


Could you post your interpretation of II Timothy 3:16-17 also if your denomination has one that may be helpful as well.. I will more than likely post a wide range of ECF with their interpretations as well, and asking you why yours or your denominations are better/valid than those.


In Him,

Bill

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So to ask my question again, the dogma of purgatory may be correct? According to Sola Scriptura, it may not be salvific information, but purgatory may exist...correct?

catholichomeschooler said:

Wrong.

John 20:23
If you forgive anyone's sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

1 John 4
6We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.


John 6
53Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

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Good Day,

The You in John 20 is a pronoun to which noun does it refer?

The We in 1 John is a pronoun to which noun does it refer?

Really read John 6 is in context start at verse 1 the read you would never read a new paper half way though the column,

... first use:

All the father gives to me I will raise up and lose none of those given to me by the Father.



In Him,

Bill

concretecamper said:

So to ask my question again, the dogma of purgatory may be correct? According to Sola Scriptura, it may not be salvific information, but purgatory may exist...correct?

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And I ask my question to you again:

concretecamper said:

And you claim Catholics have man made doctrines....then welcome to the club my friend!

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Albion said:

So...are we agreeing that every church has some doctrines that are manmade?

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concretecamper said:

So to ask my question again, the dogma of purgatory may be correct? According to Sola Scriptura, it may not be salvific information, but purgatory may exist...correct?

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No. Purgatory is not mentioned or described, by any name, anywhere in scripture.

Albion said:

No. Purgatory is not mentioned or described, by any name, anywhere in scripture.

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also where the Roman catholic denominations makes it binding on their members it would violate the doctrine of Sola scripture.


"Let the inspired Scriptures then be our umpire, and the vote of truth will be given to those whose dogmas are found to agree with the Divine words." (St. Gregory of Nyssa: On the Holy Trinity, NPNF, p. 327).

Albion said:

And I ask my question to you again:

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it was a jab at someone who claims that the RCC has man made doctrines when I just proved he believes a man made doctrine also.

The RCC has only Divinely inspired doctrines, per the bible (but that has been discussed at length)