Catholic politicians must be held accountable for pro-abortion views

redleghunter

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BALTIMORE, Maryland, June 17, 2019 (LifeSiteNews) — Bishops have an obligation, for the good of the individual, to hold Catholics in public life who support abortion accountable, Bishop Joseph Strickland said.

Abortion takes precedence over other issues, the bishop said, because the right to life is fundamental.

“Yes, it has a priority,” Strickland told LifeSiteNews. “Because, unless you can manage to be born, you really don’t have any life issues. So certainly that’s foundational.”

More at link: Faithful U.S. bishop: Catholic politicians must be held accountable for pro-abortion views
 

thecolorsblend

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redleghunter

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No. They are for a woman's right to choose abortion or not rather than have the government decide for her.
This means these politicians are for a woman’s right to terminate human beings in their care in a premeditated fashion. Which is euphemistic for the right to kill human beings.
 
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Contenders Edge

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BALTIMORE, Maryland, June 17, 2019 (LifeSiteNews) — Bishops have an obligation, for the good of the individual, to hold Catholics in public life who support abortion accountable, Bishop Joseph Strickland said.

Abortion takes precedence over other issues, the bishop said, because the right to life is fundamental.

“Yes, it has a priority,” Strickland told LifeSiteNews. “Because, unless you can manage to be born, you really don’t have any life issues. So certainly that’s foundational.”

More at link: Faithful U.S. bishop: Catholic politicians must be held accountable for pro-abortion views


Anyone who calls themselves a Christian at all yet supports the destruction of innocent lives need to be held answerable. If in public office, they must be voted out, no matter where they stand on other issues when there are those who can be voted into office who will be committed to preserving innocent life.

If they are within the ranks of our fellowship, they need to be subject to the disciplinary action as laid out in the scriptures (Mt. 18:15-17) in hopes that they may reconsider their position and repent.

If your Pastor or anyone holding a position of authority within your respective congregation happens to support abortion or is found enabling the killing of innocent babies, he or she needs to be removed from their position and from the fellowship except that they repent.

If they happen to be one of prominence, (a well-known religious leader or entertainer) they need to be called out and exposed and we are to give no support to their respective ministry until they repent.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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This means these politicians are for a woman’s right to terminate human beings in their care in a premeditated fashion. Which is euphemistic for the right to kill human beings.


Yes, that is the Catholic perspective. They want to have the choice to terminate the life within the womb.

But d you see the distinction between wanting abortion and wanting choice?
 
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redleghunter

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Yes, that is the Catholic perspective.
Actually what I posted is factual and not perspective.
They want to have the choice to terminate the life within the womb.
Which is a nice way of saying a woman must have the right to kill her own children in the womb.
But d you see the distinction between wanting abortion and wanting choice?
It's only choice if all parties agree. The child has no voice or choice in the manner. The pregnant woman becomes prosecutor, judge and executioner in what is coined "choice."
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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Actually what I posted is factual and not perspective.

Which is a nice way of saying a woman must have the right to kill her own children in the womb.

It's only choice if all parties agree. The child has no voice or choice in the manner. The pregnant woman becomes prosecutor, judge and executioner in what is coined "choice."


This is why discussion is so polarized and the two sides will never agree on anything. They can't step outside their own framework for a second to try to understand the other. Instead, just express the other in the most emotionally charged, insulting way possible.
 
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redleghunter

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This is why discussion is so polarized and the two sides will never agree on anything. They can't step outside their own framework for a second to try to understand the other. Instead, just express the other in the most emotionally charged, insulting way possible.
What is your definition of 'stepping out of the framework' when not all human life is considered equal on the pro-choice side?

Stepping out of the framework would be admitting what's really going on. Pro-choice means a woman has a right to choose to kill her own child in the womb.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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What is your definition of 'stepping out of the framework' when not all human life is considered equal on the pro-choice side?

Stepping out of the framework would be admitting what's really going on. Pro-choice means a woman has a right to choose to kill her own child in the womb.

How about a discussion on what human life is? That is the primary point of departure for the two sides. You wont get anywhere calling someone a murderer. Then start discussing the reasons women seek abortion and how to prevent the demand.
 
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redleghunter

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How about a discussion on what human life is? That is the primary point of departure for the two sides.
There have been plenty of threads on this subject. Human life begins at conception. A biological fact.

You wont get anywhere calling someone a murderer.
We also don't get anywhere when people deny a human being is killed during an abortion.

Then start discussing the reasons women seek abortion and how to prevent the demand.
Most probably seek abortion because it is available.

The real question is why do those of the pro-choice view see abortion as a justifiable solution? And I'm not speaking of situations where the women's life is at risk.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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There have been plenty of threads on this subject. Human life begins at conception. A biological fact.

Debated none the less.

We also don't get anywhere when people deny a human being is killed during an abortion.

They key word there is "deny". So how do you persuade them? Call them murderers? Does that work?

Most probably seek abortion because it is available.

Possibly, but certainly some would still seek it even if not legal.

The real question is why do those of the pro-choice view see abortion as a justifiable solution? And I'm not speaking of situations where the women's life is at risk.

Yes, that is the important question. How do you persuade them it is not justifiable? That the "choice" should not be available? That the life of the human fetus has priority over the right of the mother to choose anything?

I think we need to start with language sensitivity or the discussion ends before it starts. We are talking about a "human fetus". That is not a "baby" nor a "child" just yet. And it is in no way dehumanizing to call him or her a human fetus.

Next, we have to stop with the "murder" language. No one will participate in such a discussion if we start off calling them a murderer.

The aim is to offer a compelling argument, not insult.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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redleghunter

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Debated none the less.
What exactly? The science where a human being is procreated at conception? That's been settled science since the mid 19th century.
They key word there is "deny". So how do you persuade them? Call them murderers? Does that work?
I don't think I used the word murder. Are you asking me to 'sweeten the pot' by not calling the premeditated, intentional taking of a human life 'killing?'

Yes, that is the important question. How do you persuade them it is not justifiable? That the "choice" should not be available? That the life of the human fetus has priority over the right of the mother to choose anything?
The life of the human being developing in the womb does not have priority but equality.

I think we need to start with language sensitivity or the discussion ends before it starts.
Is "the premeditated, intentional termination of a human being in the womb" a much more sensitive way to present abortion?

Next, we have to stop with the "murder" language.
Well murder means (in legal terms) the unlawful termination of another human's life. It is quite obvious abortion in most states to varying degrees is the 'lawful' termination of another human's life.

Biblically, the premeditated (in cold blood) taking of an innocent life not in self defense is the definition of murder.
 
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redleghunter

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We are biologically living human beings at conception. Those are scientific facts. If we are something else at conception to a certain point, then share that information.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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We are biologically living human beings at conception. Those are scientific facts. If we are something else at conception to a certain point, then share that information.

Did you look at any of those links?
 
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redleghunter

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Did you look at any of those links?
I did but the question is did you? I ask because none of those links...NONE made a scientific argument for or against human life beginning at conception. In fact three say they will destroy the notion of human beings begin at conception, and then never address that issue. Instead all three go on a tangent of "when does personhood begin?" That question is not a scientific question but a philosophical one.

So none of your links ever got around to refuting human life begins at conception (fertilization).




Human beings begin at conception (fertilization) is settled science. As human beings by definition we are persons.

per·son
/ˈpərs(ə)n/
noun
noun: person; plural noun: people; plural noun: persons; noun: first person; noun: second person; noun: third person
  1. a human being regarded as an individual.
    "the porter was the last person to see her"
    synonyms: human being, individual, man/woman, human, being, living soul, soul, mortal, creature, fellow; More

The science of abortion: When does life begin?


By James D. Agresti
June 10, 2014

In a recent interview, Senator Marco Rubio (R-FL) declared it is a scientific fact that “human life begins at conception.” He also said that “leaders on the left” who “wag their fingers” about the “settled science” of global warming are hypocrites when it comes to science, and someone should ask them if they accept the “consensus of scientists that says that human life begins at conception.”

Going further, the senator added, “I’d like to see someone ask that question. It’s never asked. And that’s not even a debatable thing, we can actually see that happening. I mean, that is a proven fact. And yet that’s a scientific consensus they conveniently choose to ignore.”

In the wake of these remarks, MSNBC reporter Irin Carmon and Washington Post blogger Philip Bump pushed back at Rubio, asserting that:

  • he made a “scientific blunder on abortion.” (Carmon)
  • “conception” and “life” “aren’t scientific terms.” (Carmon)
  • “the scientific experts we spoke with didn’t offer any consensus” on when life begins. (Bump)
However, as documented below, the facts of science support Rubio’s point and reveal that the claims of Carmon and Bump are scientifically baseless.

Science shows that life begins at conception

Contrary to Carmon’s allegation that “conception” and “life” are not scientific terms, both of these words are clearly defined in science dictionaries and widely used in scientific literature.

To cite just a few examples, the American Heritage Science Dictionary defines “conception” as “the formation of a zygote resulting from the union of a sperm and egg cell; fertilization.” (For reference, a zygote is the first stage of a human embryo.)

Likewise, the entry for “life” in the American Heritage Dictionary of Science states that life is “the form of existence that organisms like animals and plants have and that inorganic objects or organic dead bodies lack; animate existence, characterized by growth, reproduction, metabolism, and response to stimuli.”

Rubio’s statement that “human life begins at conception” is consistent with both of these definitions, because human zygotes display all four empirical attributes of life:

  1. Growth – As explained in the textbook Essentials of Human Development: A Life-Span View, “the zygote grows rapidly through cell division.”
  1. Reproduction – Per Human Sexuality: An Encyclopedia, zygotes sometimes form identical twins, which is an act of “asexual reproduction.” (Also, in this context, the word “reproduction” is more accurately understood as “reproductive potential” instead of “active reproduction.” For example, three-year-old humans are manifestly alive, but they can’t actively reproduce.)
  1. Metabolism – As detailed in the medical text Human Gametes and Preimplantation Embryos: Assessment and Diagnosis, “At the zygote stage,” the human embryo metabolizes “carboxylic acids pyruvate and lactate as its preferred energy substrates.”
  1. Response to stimuli – Collins English Dictionary defines a “stimulus” as “any drug, agent, electrical impulse, or other factor able to cause a response in an organism.” Experiments have shown that zygotes are responsive to such factors. For example, a 2005 paper in the journal Human Reproduction Update notes that a compound called platelet-activating factor “acts upon the zygote” by stimulating “metabolism,” “cell-cycle progression,” and “viability.”
Furthermore, the science of embryology has proven that the genetic composition of humans is formed during fertilization, and as the textbook Molecular Biology explains, this genetic material is “the very basis of life itself.”

In accord with the facts above, the textbook Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects directly states: “The zygote and early embryo are living human organisms.” This may be controversial from a political perspective, but the sciences of embryology and genetics leave no doubt as to when human life begins.

The science of abortion: When does life begin? - Just Facts

The Developing Human Being
By Keith Moore, and T.V.N. Persaud
7th edition, 2003

From an introductory definition section:

“Human development is a continuous process that begins when an oocyte(ovum) from a female is fertilized by a sperm (spermatozoon) from a male. Cell division, cell migration, programmed cell death, differentiation, growth, and cell rearrangement transform the fertilized oocyte, a highly specialized, totipotent cell – a zygote – into a multicellular human being. Although most developmental changes occur during the embryonic and fetal periods, important changes occur during later periods of development: infancy, childhood, adolescence, and early adulthood. Development does not stop at birth. Important changes, in addition to growth, occur after birth (e.g., development of teeth and female breasts). The brain triples in weight between birth and 16 years; most developmental changes are completed by the age of 25. Although it is customary to divide human development into prenatal (before birth) and postnatal (after birth) periods, birth is merely a dramatic event during development resulting in a change in environment.” (p. 2)

Zygote. This cell results from the union of an oocyte and a sperm during fertilization. A zygote is the beginning of a new human being (i.e., an embryo).” (p. 2)

Embryo. The developing human during its early stages of development. Theembryonic period extends to the end of the eighth week (56 days), by which time the beginnings of all major structures are present.” (p. 3)

From chapter 2: “The Beginning of Human Development: First Week”

First sentence of the Chapter: “Human development begins at fertilization when a male gamete or sperm (spermatozoon) unites with a female gamete or oocyte (ovum) to form a single cell – a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marked the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.” (p. 16)

“Studies on early stages of development indicate that human oocytes are usually fertilized with 12 hours after ovulation. In vitro observations have shown that the oocyte cannot be fertilized after 24 hours and this it degenerates shortly thereafter.” [This would buttress our argument that sperm and ovum by themselves are parts of the parents and not entire beings. That there is a substantial change between gametes and zygotes.] (p. 31)

“The zygote is genetically unique because half of its chromosomes come from the mother and half from the father. The zygote contains a new combination of chromosomes that is different from that in the cells of either of the parents.” (p. 33)

“Cleavage consists of repeated mitotic divisions of the zygote, resulting in a rapid increase in the number of cells. The embryonic cells – blastomeres – become smaller with each cleavage division. First the zygote divides into two blastomores, which then divide into four blastomores, either blastomeres, and so on.” (p. 36-37) [We can use the cleavage discussion to show that now the embryo is operating on its own and developing.]


And more:

Quotes from Textbooks on Human Development


A zygote [fertilized egg] is the beginning of a new human being. Human development begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete … unites with a female gamete or oocyte … to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.

Keith L. Moore’s The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology (7th edition, Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2003)

http://www.textbookrush.com/browse/...calinventory&gclid=CJGkm7nNncoCFQqpaQodVZINSA


The French geneticist Jerome L. LeJeune has stated:

To accept the fact that after fertilization has taken place a new human has come into being is no longer a matter of taste or opinion. The human nature of the human being from conception to old age is not a metaphysical contention, it is plain experimental evidence.” [The Human Life Bill: Hearings on S. 158 Before the Subcommittee on Separation of Powers of the Senate Judiciary Committee, 97th Congress, 1st Session (1981). See Norman L. Geisler, Christian Ethics: Options and Issues (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 1989), p. 149 also Francis J. Beckwith,Politically Correct Death: Answering the Arguments for Abortion Rights (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 1993), p. 42.] (Emphases mine – VJT.)

Dr. Hymie Gordon, professor of medical genetics and Mayo Clinic physician stated:

“I think we can now also say that the question of the beginning of life – when life begins – is no longer a question for theological or philosophical dispute. It is an established scientific fact. Theologians and philosophers may go on to debate the meaning of life or purpose of life, but it is an established fact that all life, including human life, begins at the moment of conception.” [The Human Life Bill – S. 158, Report 9, see Francis J. Beckwith, Politically Correct Death: Answering the Arguments for Abortion Rights (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 1993), p. 42.] (Emphases mine – VJT.)
 
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redleghunter

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Peer reviewed studies on human life begins at fertilization:

  1. Fertilization. 2013.
    “Fertilization-the fusion of gametes to produce a new organism-is the culmination of a multitude of intricately regulated cellular processes.”
    ——————————————————————
  2. The oocyte-to-embryo transition. 2013.
    “The oocyte-to-embryo transition refers to the process whereby a fully grown, relatively quiescent oocyte undergoes maturation, fertilization, and is converted into a developmentally active, mitotically dividing embryo, arguably one of the most dramatic transitions in biology.”
    ——————————————————————
  3. A role for the elongator complex in zygotic paternal genome demethylation. 2010.
    “The life cycle of mammals begins when a sperm enters an egg. Immediately after fertilization, both the maternal and paternal genomes undergo dramatic reprogramming to prepare for the transition from germ cell to somatic cell transcription programs.”
    ——————————————————————
  4. Roles of the oviduct in mammalian fertilization. 2012
    The oviduct or Fallopian tube is the anatomical region where every new life begins in mammalian species. After a long journey, the spermatozoa meet the oocyte in the specific site of the oviduct named ampulla and fertilization takes place”
    ——————————————————————
  5. Model systems for membrane fusion. 2011
    “Membrane fusion has an overarching influence on living organisms. The fusion of sperm and egg membranes initiates the life of a sexually reproducing organism.”
    ——————————————————————
  6. Penetration, adhesion, and fusion in mammalian sperm-egg interaction. 2002.
    “Fertilization is the sum of the cellular mechanisms that pass the genome from one generation to the next and initiate development of a new organism.”
    ——————————————————————
  7. Kinases, phosphatases and proteases during sperm capacitation. 2012
    “Fertilization is the process by which male and female haploid gametes (sperm and egg) unite to produce a genetically distinct individual.”
    ——————————————————————
  8. The cell cycle: a new entry in the field of Ca2+ signaling. 2005.
    “Ca2+ signaling plays a crucial role in virtually all cellular processes, from the origin of new life at fertilization to the end of life when cells die.”
    ——————————————————————
  9. Oviductal, endometrial and embryonic gene expression patterns as molecular clues for pregnancy establishment. 2012.
    “In higher animals, the beginning of new life and transfer of genetic material to the next generation occurs in the oviduct when two distinct gametes cells unite resulting in the formation of a zygote“
    ——————————————————————
  10. Calcium channels in the development, maturation, and function of spermatozoa. 2011.
    “A proper dialogue between spermatozoa and the egg is essential for conception of a new individual in sexually reproducing animals. Ca(2+) is crucial in orchestrating this unique event leading to a new life.“
    ——————————————————————
  11. Acrosome reaction in the cumulus oophorus revisited: involvement of a novel sperm-released factor NYD-SP8. 2011.
    “Fertilization is a process involving multiple steps that lead to the final fusion of one sperm and the oocyte to form the zygote.”
    ——————————————————————
  12. The immunoglobulin superfamily protein Izumo is required for sperm to fuse with eggs. 2005.
    “Representing the 60 trillion cells that build a human body, a sperm and an egg meet, recognize each other, and fuse to form a new generation of life.”
    ——————————————————————
  13. Signal transduction pathways leading to Ca2+ release in a vertebrate model
    system: lessons from Xenopus eggs. 2006
    “At fertilization, eggs unite with sperm to initiate developmental programs that give rise to development of the embryo. Defining the molecular mechanism of this fundamental process at the beginning of life has been a key question in cell and developmental biology.”
    ——————————————————————
  14. Starting a new life: Sperm PLC-zeta mobilizes the Ca2+ signal that induces egg activation and embryo development. 2011.
    “We have discovered that a single sperm protein, phospholipase C-zeta (PLCζ), can stimulate intracellular Ca(2+) signalling in the unfertilized oocyte (‘egg’) culminating in the initiation of embryonic development. Upon fertilization by a spermatozoon, the earliest observed signalling event in the dormant egg is a large, transient increase in free Ca(2+) concentration. The fertilized egg responds to the intracellular Ca(2+) rise by completing meiosis“
    ——————————————————————
  15. How to make a good egg!: The need for remodeling of oocyte Ca(2+) signaling to mediate the egg-to-embryo transition. 2012
    “The egg-to-embryo transition marks the initiation of multicellular organismal development and is mediated by a specialized Ca(2+) transient at fertilization.”
    ——————————————————————
  16. Ca2+ signaling differentiation during oocyte maturation. 2007.
    “Oocyte maturation is an essential cellular differentiation pathway that prepares the egg for activation at fertilization leading to the initiation of embryogenesis”
    ——————————————————————
  17. Sperm-egg fusion assay in mammals. 2008.
    “As representatives of the 60 trillion cells that make a human body, a sperm and an egg meet, recognize each other, and fuse to create a new generation.”
    ——————————————————————
  18. Sperm chromatin: fertile grounds for proteomic discovery of clinical tools. 2008.
    “Sperm are remarkably complex cells with a singularly important mission: to deliver paternal DNA and its associated factors to the oocyte to start a new life.”
    ——————————————————————
  19. Gene expression during the oocyte-to-embryo transition in mammals. 2009.
    “The seminal question in modern developmental biology is the origins of new life arising from the unification of sperm and egg. The roots of this question begin from 19th to 20th century embryologists studying fertilization and embryogenesis.”
    ——————————————————————
  20. Fertilization and the oocyte-to-embryo transition in C. elegans. 2010.
    “Fertilization is a complex process comprised of numerous steps. During fertilization, two highly specialized and differentiated cells (sperm and egg) fuse and subsequently trigger the development of an embryo from a quiescent, arrested oocyte”
    ——————————————————————
  21. A profile of fertilization in mammals. 2001.
    “Fertilization is defined as the process of union of two gametes, eggs and sperm. When mammalian eggs and sperm come into contact in the female oviduct, a series of steps is set in motion that can lead to fertilization and ultimately to development of new individuals.”
    ——————————————————————
  22. Cell fusion during development. 2007.
    “Most readers of this review originated from a sperm-egg fusion event.”
    ——————————————————————
  23. Sperm-egg fusion assay in mammals. 2008.
    “As representatives of the 60 trillion cells that make a human body, a sperm and an egg meet, recognize each other, and fuse to create a new generation. Thus, gamete fusion is an extremely important process that must transpire without error to launch life activity.”
    ——————————————————————
  24. Model systems for membrane fusion. 2011.
    “Membrane fusion has an overarching influence on living organisms. The fusion of sperm and egg membranes initiates the life of a sexually reproducing organism. Intracellular membrane fusion facilitates molecular trafficking within every cell of the organism during its entire lifetime, and virus-cell membrane fusion may signal the end of the organism’s life.”
    ——————————————————————
  25. Sperm-egg interaction. 2012.
    “A crucial step of fertilization is the sperm-egg interaction that allows the two gametes to fuse and create the zygote.”
 
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