Catholic Medals

[Rick Otto]

You will find that if you are Catholic--or in your case, appear to be Catholic--certain people suddenly somehow know exactly what you believe, even better than you do! I suppose they acquire mind-reading powers or something. Of course, it would help if they were ever correct in their mind-reading. It is neither wrong nor blasphemous to wear a medal for the reasons you have stated. It would be wrong if it was out of pride or if you think it contains magical powers or something. But that's not your reason, so it's not wrong.

I recognize & respect the truth in what you say but at the same time, I have to share that I observe it being brought upon themselves in large part. After all, claims of innerrancy & superlative authority are by nature controversial.

 

[MKJ]

I don't think you're praying to anyone, since you just said you're not lol.
Perhaps she's a bit confused..
Why would God bless someone for wearing a medal of another person?



God bless you!

I think what he meant was that the medal will remind him to be humble, and humility is pleasing to God.

 

[MKJ]

and yet it seems there are indeed medals that some Catholics wear that apparently are imbued with special powers/graces.

TRADITIONAL CATHOLIC: Feast of Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal

What may be an innocent object of encouragement to one, may be thought to be some sort of religious talisman with others.

This sort of thing goes around a lot. There seem to be efforts by Catholic groups not to present these things in such a magical way. So you see it explained more often that the idea is that the disciplines associated with the medals or things they represent - prayer, trust in God and so on - are what will be helpful. Not that the medal itself has some opwer,or that wearing it will magically have these results even if you don't follow the disaplines.

I really wish that more Catholics would speak out against this bad kind of explanation though.

 

[Rick Otto]

This sort of thing goes around a lot. There seem to be efforts by Catholic groups not to present these things in such a magical way. So you see it explained more often that the idea is that the disciplines associated with the medals or things they represent - prayer, trust in God and so on - are what will be helpful. Not that the medal itself has some opwer,or that wearing it will magically have these results even if you don't follow the disaplines.

I really wish that more Catholics would speak out against this bad kind of explanation though.

Perhaps the problem is in the system itself.
Focus on the actual system of how prayer, trust in God & associated disciplines are physicaly, behaviouraly, & spiritualy achievements recognizable by their actual manifestations. People who've made such achievements are least of all interested in getting & wearing medals for it.
Holy hardware! lol

 

[MKJ]

Perhaps the problem is in the system itself.
Focus on the actual system of how prayer, trust in God & associated disciplines are physicaly, behaviouraly, & spiritualy achievements recognizable by their actual manifestations. People who've made such achievements are least of all interested in getting & wearing medals for it.
Holy hardware! lol

You don't get the medal for the achievement. It is a physical reminder of a mental attitude or practice that you wish to have. Much like the OP found that wearing a medal of an admirable Christian reminds him to be humble.

 

[Rick Otto]

Oh, OK. I guess I'm biased in thinking medals are earned.
Thanks.
We must mean "medallion".

 

[MKJ]

Oh, OK. I guess I'm biased in thinking medals are earned.
Thanks.
We must mean "medallion".

Yup, just like a necklace with a picture. Or some people wear scapulars.

 

[Rhamiel]

This sort of thing goes around a lot. There seem to be efforts by Catholic groups not to present these things in such a magical way. So you see it explained more often that the idea is that the disciplines associated with the medals or things they represent - prayer, trust in God and so on - are what will be helpful. Not that the medal itself has some opwer,or that wearing it will magically have these results even if you don't follow the disaplines.

I really wish that more Catholics would speak out against this bad kind of explanation though.

what about the bronze snake that Moses had made to cure the Isrealites, is that "treated like magic"?
God said do this and this will happen
it is not magic
it is trusting in the power of God

 

[Rick Otto]

Yup, just like a necklace with a picture. Or some people wear scapulars.

I had all that when I was a kid in the RCC.

 

[Rick Otto]

what about the bronze snake that Moses had made to cure the Isrealites, is that "treated like magic"?
God said do this and this will happen
it is not magic
it is trusting in the power of God

Moses was instructed by God to make that specificaly, and Moses did not make any of the items we are discussing, I'm pretty sure.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

Moses was instructed by God to make that specificaly, and Moses did not make any of the items we are discussing, I'm pretty sure.

QFT

 

[MKJ]

what about the bronze snake that Moses had made to cure the Isrealites, is that "treated like magic"?
God said do this and this will happen
it is not magic
it is trusting in the power of God

No, it is not the same thing. Moses was told directly by God to do something, and God made it work a particular way. We are talking about claims that a person who wears these items and says the prayers will certainly go to Heaven, or not die without all the Sacraments, and things like this. Or another type of example is the prayer to St Jude, that if you say it a certain number of times it "is never known to fail".

These are very poorly expressed practices which are very misleading. Which is why as I understand it that the Carmelites have revised the way they describe the purpose of the brown scapular.

 

[Rhamiel]

No, it is not the same thing. Moses was told directly by God to do something, and God made it work a particular way. We are talking about claims that a person who wears these items and says the prayers will certainly go to Heaven, or not die without all the Sacraments, and things like this. Or another type of example is the prayer to St Jude, that if you say it a certain number of times it "is never known to fail".

These are very poorly expressed practices which are very misleading. Which is why as I understand it that the Carmelites have revised the way they describe the purpose of the brown scapular.

Our Lady told St.Catherine Laboure to make the medal of the Immaculate Conception also known as the Miraculous Medal and that people who wear it will be given special graces

 

[Zeek]

what about the bronze snake that Moses had made to cure the Isrealites, is that "treated like magic"?
God said do this and this will happen
it is not magic
it is trusting in the power of God

But if you read further you will discover that after G-d healed those bitten by serpents, over the years the Israelites kept this bronze serpent that Moses had made, and venerated it...so much so that it became an idol and a snare, and eventually was destroyed by Hezekiah.

It is a prime example of what happens when the wisdom of man moves beyond the purposes of G-d and elevates something to a realm in which it does not belong....it becomes a snare and a distraction.

2 Kings 18:4 He removed the high places and broke down the sacred pillars and cut down the Asherah. He also broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the sons of Israel burned incense to it; and it was called Nehushtan.

 

[MKJ]

Our Lady told St.Catherine Laboure to make the medal of the Immaculate Conception also known as the Miraculous Medal and that people who wear it will be given special graces

I am pretty doubtful of that personally. But for the sake of argument, lets say it is true. If I get one of those medals, do you think that I will have the advantages of all the promises it makes?

My guess is you will say that it is only so if I have the faith and disciplines that go with the medal.

Of course, if I had those, then I wouldn't really need the medal, would I?

These things can be excellent ways to organize our spiritual life, or remind us to do things like pray, or to inspire us. But presenting them as if they themselves confer these things is confusing and dangerous. There is good reason none of the apostolic churches have this stuff and the Protestants immediately rejected them, even the very catholic ones. I am usually very sympathetic to Catholic practices, but this walks the line of superstition too closely, and I have encountered too many people who were seriously confused by that.

 

[Rhamiel]

But if you read further you will discover that after G-d healed those bitten by serpents, over the years the Israelites kept this bronze serpent that Moses had made, and venerated it...so much so that it became an idol and a snare, and eventually was destroyed by Hezekiah.

It is a prime example of what happens when the wisdom of man moves beyond the purposes of G-d and elevates something to a realm in which it does not belong....it becomes a snare and a distraction.

2 Kings 18:4 He removed the high places and broke down the sacred pillars and cut down the Asherah. He also broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the sons of Israel burned incense to it; and it was called Nehushtan.

Yes in the OT we see time and time agian that the Jews fell into idol worship, good things can be abused, even veneration given to the Saints can be turned into something evil, but that does not mean that properly understood veneration is evil, some of the Jews preverted what the Bronze Serpent was ment for but that does not mean it started out bad
the example would be the preversion of the veneration of the Saints found in Vodou and Santeria

I am pretty doubtful of that personally. But for the sake of argument, lets say it is true. If I get one of those medals, do you think that I will have the advantages of all the promises it makes?

My guess is you will say that it is only so if I have the faith and disciplines that go with the medal.

Of course, if I had those, then I wouldn't really need the medal, would I?

These things can be excellent ways to organize our spiritual life, or remind us to do things like pray, or to inspire us. But presenting them as if they themselves confer these things is confusing and dangerous. There is good reason none of the apostolic churches have this stuff and the Protestants immediately rejected them, even the very catholic ones. I am usually very sympathetic to Catholic practices, but this walks the line of superstition too closely, and I have encountered too many people who were seriously confused by that.

I think that wearing the medal would present some graces to you that you do not have now, but to get the full effect you would need to have faith
an example would be the Green Scapular, many people have been converted through that sacremental, but I am sure it is more helpful to people who allready have faith
what do you mean none of the Apostolic Churches have "this stuff"? Catholic and Orthodox Churches have blessed objects
and the "very catholic Protestants" is that like a fish that is "very like" a bird?

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

Our Lady told St.Catherine Laboure to make the medal of the Immaculate Conception also known as the Miraculous Medal and that people who wear it will be given special graces

That simply isn't biblical and I don't believe it for one second. Nowhere in Scripture are we told that Mary would or could do such things. She is not and was not divine in any shape, form or fashion. Why atttibute to her divine powers that belong to God alone (the Trinity)? It is clear that the only biblical explanation for incidences like this is 1 Timothy 4:1, which says, "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."

 

[Rhamiel]

That simply isn't biblical and I don't believe it for one second. Nowhere in Scripture are we told that Mary would or could do such things. She is not and was not divine in any shape or fashion. Why atttibute to her divine powers that belong to God alone (the Trinity)? The only biblical explanation is this: 1 Timothy 4:1 says, "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."

God allowed the Apostles to see Moses and Elijah, are they divine?
it is not like we believe Mary was there on her own power... she is a servant of God and He sent her
do you think God stoped working miracles after the Bible was written?
yes many have fallen away to follow deceiving spirits
but I do not believe this is an example of that

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

I should have read the thread Helpful Advice When Posting in GT before I posted in this thread. I would have worded my post differently if I had done so. I will try and do better the next time I post in threads. Live and learn.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

God allowed the Apostles to see Moses and Elijah, are they divine?
it is not like we believe Mary was there on her own power... she is a servant of God and He sent her
do you think God stoped working miracles after the Bible was written?
yes many have fallen away to follow deceiving spirits
but I do not believe this is an example of that

I'm not sure if this is off-topic to the thread or not, but I wanted to ask you if this spirit (or Mary) acknowledged Christ?