Catholic? Jewish?

[KennySe]

And don't play the "you're only 16" card; I know when things aren't right... and papal infalability isn't right.

Well, now that that is settled, what other questions do you have?

 

[thereselittleflower]

I rely on others opinions, but certainly to not assume they are always correct. That is the difference.

No "Pope" can have perfect doctrine. He may have very good doctrine, but people should only use him as a resource..not a FINAL belief.

And don't play the "you're only 16" card; I know when things aren't right... and papal infalability isn't right.

I agree with using a pope as an opinion, but you should not blindly follow what he says. You should think for yourself, challenge everything he says with the Bible, and ask God to reveal his word to you.

No pope has perfect doctrine . .

That is not the point of Papal infallibility . .

Your concept of what Papal infallibility is indeed wrong . . .

There have been relatively few infallible declarations by popes in the history of the Church, but many, many writings . . The writings give us guidance. . . we don't "blindly" accept them . . but at the same time, given the pope's position, we don't lightly disregard them either . .they are for our edification and growth in the faith, not to make us robots blindly accepting anything he says . .

We have confidence in the Holy Spirit preserving the truth through the ages through the Church, through the consistant teaching handed down from the Apostles and Early Church Fathers . ..

The Pope fits in in a very special way, and he is only infallible at certain times, and then, only protecting and formally declaring the consitant teaching of the Church . .


Peace in Him!

 

[Michelina]

I agree with using a pope as an opinion, but you should not blindly follow what he says. You should think for yourself, challenge everything he says with the Bible, and ask God to reveal his word to you.

We can't trust the Bible because it was written by fallible men.

And we can't trust what God says to us, since we might get it wrong.

 

[tigersnare]

We can't trust the Bible because it was written by fallible men.

Are you being sarcastic?

Something tells me you are...

 

[Miss Shelby]

I agree with using a pope as an opinion, but you should not blindly follow what he says. You should think for yourself, challenge everything he says with the Bible, and ask God to reveal his word to you.

Preston,

Bolding mine.

I did just that. And God led me to Matthew Chapter 16, verse 18.

Michelle

 

[thereselittleflower]

Are you being sarcastic?

Something tells me you are...

Yes, she is being sarcastic . . .

The point she is making is if you can't trust the Holy Spirit to Protect a fallible man from formally declaring error, how can you trust the Holy Spirit to protect fallible men from writting error in scripture, or how can you trust the Holy Spirit to protect fallible men from declaring as scripture what is not scripture?

Everyone that the Holy Spirit works through are fallible human men . .

Just because the Pope is a fallible human man that does not discount the Holy Spirit working through him too and protecting him from error in the way we have outlined as well . .

That a man is fallible says nothing about what the Holy Spirit is doing, or will do, through that man . .


Peace in Him!

 

[Michelina]

Are you being sarcastic?

Something tells me you are...

You could say so, Tiger. I am trying to show him how ironic it is for a person who believes in God's providential and loving inspiration of the SS would be able to say that God can't do the same thing with a Pope.

Whose permission does God need?

 

[Michelina]

I can give you a perfect example of God inspiring a Pope. It's in the Bible.

Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." Matthew 16: 17-19

At the very institution of the office, Jesus tells us how it works.

Thanks to Michelle, Miss Shelby, for reminding me of the verse.

 

[BornCath]

I am new to this forum... so be nice

I started reading the bible a month ago, and am now in the book of Ruth in the Old Testament.

##Let's hope that you don't turn up to be that four-year old boy/girl who after reading the books in the Bible try to instruct all the author who wrote them.

Me and my cousin talk a lot about Christianity...we both ruled out Catholocism, and the Jew's beleifs for a simple reason. The Jews took away a part from the bible (New Testament) and Catholics added on. Right there you rule them both out.

##Catholicism is the only completely Christian religion that there is. The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus and was the only Christian Church in existence up to yr. 1054 when the Orthodox left her. The tone of your post suggests that you are a protestant. For 1500 yrs. there was not a single protestant church that existed until your forefather Martin Luther separated from the Catholic Church in the early 1500. The seven books Catholics called Deuterocanical which you called apocrypha has always been part of the old testament that Jesus & the Apostles used. It is Luther who took them out of the Old Testament because they don't support his new found belief. To straighten you up, after the coming of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost day, Christianity exploded. Thousands of Jews converted to Christianity and thousands also were killed by the Roman soldiers. Those who did'nt convert to Christianity or get killed by the soldiers retreated to a village called Jamnia
& founded a new form of Judaism under the council of Jamnia. Since the Christians were using the Septuagint Old Testament (a translation of the Hebrew Bible into Greek) that contains the seven books which Jesus & the Apostles used, the followers of the new form of Judaism refused to used the Septuagint because of their denial that Jesus is the Christ - the Messiah. So they opted for the Old Testament that does not have the seven books. Let me ask you. Are you a Christian or a Jew? If you're a Christian why are you not using the Old Testanment that Jesus, the Apostles, and the early Christians used? Are you also denying that Jesus is the Messiah like the Jews
do by not using the Old Testament that Jesus used?

You cannot take away, or add to the Bible. Am I right?

##Of course anybody CAN take away or add to the Bible. Luther added the words 'faith alone' in one of the books. He also took away seven books out of the Old Testament & referred to the Epistle of James as epistle of straw
because he did'nt believe in prayer for the dead that support the Catholic Church teaching or contradict his faith alone salvation. So one can take away or add to the Bible or even vandalize It. The question is are you still a Christian after you've done so? I'll let you answer the question.

I am more confused about Catholicism. Why have they added books to the bible? Isn't it common sense that you should not add to the bible?

##Since Luther is not with you anymore, your question should be directed to his protestant descendants because the Catholics did'nt take away or add anything in the Bible.

Forgive me, for I have much to learn. Tear apart this post piece by piece if you must. I am just trying to learn

##There's really nothing to forgive as of now because you have not been exposed to the truth. I suggest you stick around this forum and if you are honestly seeking complete Christianity, you will find it in Catholicism through this forum.

Thank you.

 

[artnalex]

Preston,
can you answer the two questions I posed to you in my post yet?

Come on, you are 16 years old, you should know it.

Seriously, have you thought of the two questions that i posed to you in this post?

Preston,
if papal infallibility is ridiculous then why even read the Bible? You could be wrong too, right? In fact, aren't your thoughts and beliefs shaped by those around you? Aren't you relying on someone to be your "pope", if not your minister, then yourself, right? And you a sinner right? So why trust yourself, especially when you are only 16 years old?

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Preston,
what type of studying have you done outside of the Bible? Have you ever wondered when the Bible was put together, and who did it?

Before you rush to judgement, perhaps you need to study a bit.

So, first question to you is "when was the Bible created"? (I'll give you a hint: It was in the 300's AD).

Second question: How did people praise, and get to know, the Lord without the Bible for all of those years?

 

[Linda8]

Preston,

It sounds like you have a lot of questions about Catholicism which we would love to answer for you, so please go ahead and ask whatever you are wondering.

In answer to your last post, Catholicism is not a changed form of Christianity- it is the original form of Christianity. Protestantism didn't come along until about 500 years ago. Catholicism has been around much longer than that.

The fact that a faith claims an earlier date of existence, does not make it

necessarily the truth.

Nimrod's [see Genesis] pagan religion existed before the formation of the Hebrew nation. That does not make Nimrod's faith

a holy one.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

The fact that a faith claims an earlier date of existence, does not make it necessarily the truth.

Nimrod's [see Genesis] pagan religion existed before the formation of the Hebrew nation. That does not make Nimrod's faitha holy one.

No, the claim doesn't make a nesessary truth, historical fact makes it a necessary truth.

Go ahead and prove us wrong with facts if you can.

And Jesus, a Jew, made a new Church, on Peter, a Jew, and the Pope sits in the same chair of authority that Peter did. The Pope is not currently Jewish by race, but so what? St Paul said we are neither Greek nor Jew.