*Catholic Forum* Thoughts on this?

Michie

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I was always told you would stay in the marriage you are in. See if the last marriages were even valid to begin with. Seek annulment and have the marriage you are in validated by the Church.
 
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Chrystal-J

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In some cases, the unbelieving spouse can be saved by the believing spouse. (1 Corinthians 7:14). The bond is not unbreakable though, as it states in 1 Corinthians 7:15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace.
 
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pdudgeon

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I was always told you would stay in the marriage you are in. See if the last marriages were even valid to begin with. Seek annulment and have the marriage you are in validated by the Church.

And be prepared to wait a very long time indeed!

Here's the thing. What you can do in the Catholic Church greatly depends on 3 things:
1. the current status of your former husbands--whether they are living or dead.
2. and if still alive, if they have remarried,
3. and if your first marriage was outside of the Church but has been judged to meet the Catholic standards of a marriage, in order to be considered a valid marriage according to the Catholic Church.

After you wade through all of that, it gets complicated indeed!

if the first marriage was considered to be a valid marriage according to the Catholic Church, (but not inside the Catholic Church) then it stands to reason that the second marriage was not a valid marriage, and would have to be annulled by the Church, before you could proceed to join the Catholic Church, and then that first marriage would have to be "Regularized".

Getting back to the first marriage, if that husband is still living, whether he is remarried or not remarried, then you would be considered as still married to him, but living apart, and thus not eligible to marry again so long as he lives.(and if he was remarried and still living, he would be considered as still married to you, and his second marriage would have to be annulled if he also wanted to join the church.)

If husband #1 is deceased, then we move on to the same considerations for husband number 2.

Under those circumstances, (husband #2 still living, you and he are currently married) you could have the marriage regularized, both be accepted into the Catholic Church and then have access to the sacraments provided that while you go through that process, both of you agreed to remain completely chaste and sleeping separately without congress or physical contact (a Josephite marriage) as though you were both single until the marriage is regularized.

That situation would exist from the time that you applied to be received into the Catholic Church, and while your marriage was going through the process of regularization.

Yes, getting through RCIA is the easier of the two processes.

Now situation #3:
if after you are received into the Catholic Church and if your situation changes yet again (husband dies) and instead of remaining a chaste widow for the remainder of your life you want to marry again, then all previous deals are off.
you revert back to your pre-marriage status, and you may not receive until your previous marriages are vetted and resolved if that was not done before you married. If your previous marriages were vetted, then you remain as a member of the Catholic Church, a recognized widow, and expected to remain chaste until your marriage.

And yes, you get to go through 6 months of pre-marriage training again!

Now, let's say (just to further complicate things) that after you join the church, you find someone that you would like to marry within the Church, and they are already eligible for marriage. That is a bit simpler.

You would still have to go through the examination of your previous marriages, and they would have to be declared null by the Church before you could begin the process of marriage preparation, which takes 6 months to go through.

So, If you can possibly manage it, it's easier by far to come into the Catholic Church as a single unwed person first, and then get married, rather than to reverse the two.

P>S> if you come into the Church through RCIA and you are a widow at that time (your non Catholic husband dies previous to your applying to RCIA) you are unfortunately never going to be recognized as a widow because no matter how long you were married, your marriage was not in a Catholic Church, and you were not a Catholic. Them's the breaks.
 
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anna ~ grace

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And be prepared to wait a very long time indeed!

Here's the thing. What you can do in the Catholic Church greatly depends on 3 things:
1. the current status of your former husbands--whether they are living or dead.
2. and if still alive, if they have remarried,
3. and if your first marriage was outside of the Church but has been judged to meet the Catholic standards of a marriage, in order to be considered a valid marriage according to the Catholic Church.

After you wade through all of that, it gets complicated indeed!

if the first marriage was considered to be a valid marriage according to the Catholic Church, (but not inside the Catholic Church) then it stands to reason that the second marriage was not a valid marriage, and would have to be annulled by the Church, before you could proceed to join the Catholic Church, and then that first marriage would have to be "Regularized".

Getting back to the first marriage, if that husband is still living, whether he is remarried or not remarried, then you would be considered as still married to him, but living apart, and thus not eligible to marry again so long as he lives.(and if he was remarried and still living, he would be considered as still married to you, and his second marriage would have to be annulled if he also wanted to join the church.)

If husband #1 is deceased, then we move on to the same considerations for husband number 2.

Under those circumstances, (husband #2 still living, you and he are currently married) you could have the marriage regularized, both be accepted into the Catholic Church and then have access to the sacraments provided that while you go through that process, both of you agreed to remain completely chaste and sleeping separately without congress or physical contact (a Josephite marriage) as though you were both single until the marriage is regularized.

That situation would exist from the time that you applied to be received into the Catholic Church, and while your marriage was going through the process of regularization.

Yes, getting through RCIA is the easier of the two processes.

Now situation #3:
if after you are received into the Catholic Church and if your situation changes yet again (husband dies) and instead of remaining a chaste widow for the remainder of your life you want to marry again, then all previous deals are off.
you revert back to your pre-marriage status, and you may not receive until your previous marriages are vetted and resolved if that was not done before you married. If your previous marriages were vetted, then you remain as a member of the Catholic Church, a recognized widow, and expected to remain chaste until your marriage.

And yes, you get to go through 6 months of pre-marriage training again!

Now, let's say (just to further complicate things) that after you join the church, you find someone that you would like to marry within the Church, and they are already eligible for marriage. That is a bit simpler.

You would still have to go through the examination of your previous marriages, and they would have to be declared null by the Church before you could begin the process of marriage preparation, which takes 6 months to go through.

So, If you can possibly manage it, it's easier by far to come into the Catholic Church as a single unwed person first, and then get married, rather than to reverse the two.

P>S> if you come into the Church through RCIA and you are a widow at that time (your non Catholic husband dies previous to your applying to RCIA) you are unfortunately never going to be recognized as a widow because no matter how long you were married, your marriage was not in a Catholic Church, and you were not a Catholic. Them's the breaks.

Ok. So, if one's first marriage is ruled to have been valid, one should refrain from relations with husband number two (or three), and basically just live as brother and sister?
 
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Gnarwhal

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Divorce and remarriage

Hey, friends. What does the Church teach on a situation like this?

You're already in your second or third marriage, come to Christ, and.... how should a Catholic Christian in this situation behave?

Thank you!

I think in some circumstances the Pauline Privilege would apply.

Say for example you were an atheist before becoming Catholic, and you got married in a courthouse. Later on you guys divorce and you become Catholic and want to get re-married. If your ex-spouse is still unbaptized at that time then I believe the prior marriage is rendered invalid.

I could be wrong, @Davidnic can probably correct me if I am.

One of my catechists in RCIA and her husband had both been married prior to converting to Catholicism, but they were baptized before that and had been going to an evangelical church. So when they first started converting to Catholicism, they had to inquire into an annulment. I can't remember right but I think one of their ex-spouses had passed away but the other one had to be reviewed by the tribunal.

So even though they had been married for quite some time, their marriage was illicit in the eyes of the Church, I believe. But it was all resolved and their marriage was convalidated later on.

Ok. So, if one's first marriage is ruled to have been valid, one should refrain from relations with husband number two (or three), and basically just live as brother and sister?

That's correct. If a marriage is valid according to the Church, then any subsequent 'marriage' is both invalid and technically adulterous, and the parties should live as brother and sister like you said.
 
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pdudgeon

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Ok. So, if one's first marriage is ruled to have been valid, one should refrain from relations with husband number two (or three), and basically just live as brother and sister?
If one's first marriage is ruled by the Church to have been valid, that ruling would invalidate subsequent marriages #'s 2 and 3, as stated above.

The only place where we disagree would be concerning the living arrangements.

My understanding is that if the first marriage has been ruled a valid marriage by the Church,
then the only thing that would subsequently free either husband #1 or the bride from that marriage would be the death of either of them.
The original wedding vows to be married "Until death do us part" would hold.

Therefore the bride either lives with husband #1 while he is alive, or lives alone and chastely by herself. Either way, she is still bound by her vows.

Since marriages # 2 and 3 were ruled invalid, those husbands would be free to marry again, but not to the bride.

Where a Josephite Marriage comes in would be if the bride married a second time (having been previously civilly divorced) and then she filed for a Church annulment from husband #1 after she has already married husband #2 or #3.

While the case is being discussed, she and husband #2 or #3 would be bound by the rules of a Josephite marriage until a ruling was rendered by the Church.

N.B. Different diocese may or may not have differing rules and customs regarding what is required in a Josephite marriage, so it's wise to check beforehand.
 
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