Catechism

Christy4Christ · Mar 2, 2004

Can everyone who has a Catechism please open it up to page 116 and section 460 then explain to me what that means?!

Dominus Fidelis · Mar 2, 2004

This part?

460 The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature": "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God." "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."

Christy4Christ · Mar 2, 2004

yup that part...

ShannonMcCatholic · Mar 2, 2004

If it is indeed that part check out Gal 4:4-7. We are the adopted children of God, and as such merit as heirs the kingdom of God- we are made in some sense partakers of the divine inheritance which was hitherto barred from us.

nyj · Mar 2, 2004

2 Peter 1:4
Through these, he has bestowed on us the precious and very great promises, so that through them you may come to share in the divine nature, after escaping from the corruption that is in the world because of evil desire.

Dominus Fidelis · Mar 2, 2004

I think it is refering to our resurrected bodies that will be glorified and not subject to the curse that the world is under due to Original Sin. I don't think it is saying that we will be Gods or something like Mormonism...

Christy4Christ · Mar 2, 2004

Yeah I read that part and I have also studied those verses, I don't have trouble with that part it is this that I need clarifying:

so that he, made man, might make men gods."

I just need someone to sort of translate that part into language I can understand

Bastoune · Mar 2, 2004

Now we are sons and daughters of God, not slaves, we are His Children through Christ. Thus we share in the Redemption and thus in the divine nature.

In the OT, to drink the blood of animals was forbidden because it meant you would share in the animal's nature by drinking of their lifeblood. We drink the Blood of Christ (and eat His flesh) as a commemoration of Christ's sacrifice and a partake in this "meal" of Himself (in the fullness of His humanity and divinity) so as we, as the Spouse of Christ, become one flesh with Him, as His Body (not a mixed metaphor!), we truly do attain a new nature.
Euh... just to paraphrase a bit.

Christy4Christ · Mar 2, 2004

I do think maybe they might have worded that a little better when it was written. I am certainly not questioning their knowledge or anything but that would be very easy to misinterpret.

Bastoune · Mar 2, 2004

Christy4Christ said:
so that he, made man, might make men gods."

I just need someone to sort of translate that part into language I can understand

That was Irenaeus in Against the Heresies who said that. Bear in mind, we don't become GOD but "gods" in the sense that in sharing the divine nature, we become "like the angels" or heavenly. The word "gods" in OT meant at times celestial beings like angels, like the term "sons of God." This does not mean equality w/the one true God but a sharing in the inheritance of redemption and the raising of our lowly bodies into something glorified through Christ our Lord.

Dominus Fidelis · Mar 2, 2004

Christy-

That quote is from St Thomas Aquinas, one of the greatest thinkers in the Church, so it is not written in "everyday language."

Christy4Christ · Mar 2, 2004

Defens0rFidei said:
Christy-

That quote is from St Thomas Aquinas, one of the greatest thinkers in the Church, so it is not written in "everyday language."

Exactly! So for everyday people to read it, it can be misconstrued. No wonder people think we are wackos LOL

nyj · Mar 2, 2004

The footnote for that section refers to the following:

St. Thomas Aquinas, Opusc. 57, 1-4.

Perhaps someone can find this reference online to see what St. Thomas Aquinas meant by this.

Dominus Fidelis · Mar 2, 2004

Christy4Christ said:
Exactly! So for everyday people to read it, it can be misconstrued. No wonder people think we are wackos LOL

I seriously doubt any of the anti-Catholics, or rather 99% of them, have ever read the Catechism. They learn from books like "Roman Catholicism" written by other anti-Catholics.

nyj · Mar 2, 2004

Christy4Christ said:
So for everyday people to read it, it can be misconstrued.

Who cares? We should never hide the truth, regardless of what it sounds like to other people.

Christy4Christ · Mar 2, 2004

Defens0rFidei said:
I seriously doubt any of the anti-Catholics, or rather 99% of them, have ever read the Catechism. They learn from books like "Roman Catholicism" written by other anti-Catholics.

No, unfortunatley this was just brought to my attention by an anti-catholic on the tribulation force board so they are reading our catechism and using it against us. I have seen this more than once on anti-catholic boards. They takes bits of the catechism and use it to show how "wrong we are"

Christy4Christ · Mar 2, 2004

nyj said:
Who cares? We should never hide the truth, regardless of what it sounds like to other people.

nyj I am still learning, I must ask questions when something is unclear to me. I was just thinking that if is is that unclear to me as a Catholic I cannot imagine what others who are not Catholic think.

Dominus Fidelis · Mar 2, 2004

Just point them to the Scripture given in this thread and see what it says.

nyj · Mar 2, 2004

Christy4Christ said:
nyj I am still learning, I must ask questions when something is unclear to me.

I have no problem with that. I encourage it to be exact. However, saying that because something can be misconstrued, it should be rewritten... is... to me... a knee-jerk reaction. If it's written in any other way, the truth of the statement may very well be masked. Remember, the Catechism you are reading is a translation from the original Latin, so the words you have read are, most likely, the ones which convey the deepest message in the Latin original.

I was just thinking that if is is that unclear to me as a Catholic I cannot imagine what others who are not Catholic think.

They will think whatever they wish. Obviously they have no desire to seek out the actual meanings, and read the actual footnotes supplied which explain the Catholic position... they just want ammunition to use against us. They are dishonest, they do not deserve to know the truth if they wish to behave in such a manner. I say, let them remain ignorant.

KC Catholic · Mar 2, 2004

Christy -

I had the same reaction when I first read that this morning. It reminded me that the LDS church teaches that when their members die that they become Gods of other worlds and I can see how this could be confused with what the passage in the CCC means.

I see also how non-Catholics could read that the wrong way as welll. But, let you're heart not be troubled.

nyj....be nice!

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