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Catechism
- Thread starter Adammi
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Hello,
I got thru the part about Satan and Original Sin on the Catechism today and would like to ask for clarification on where Catholic stand regarding several things.
A few things about Satan:
What exactly is Satan? I know he is an spiritual entity and not a principle. Is he just a mindless rebellious angel who rebelled against God on his lust for power or does he has a more specific task to perform in his attempt to lure humanity away from God?
In the book of Job for example we can see a "friendly" discussion between God and Satan in which God allows Satan to ruin Job's life with the single condition of not killing him. By the end of the book, since Job persevered till the end on his faith his life was restored and he was given more than what he had lost.
We know that God is sovereign over his creation (angels and satan included) and that nothing can be above or outside God's power, so does Satan (even if he is not aware of it) "serves" God in the sense of exercising the role of an tempter in order to "test the spirits" of humans to see if they retain their faith in God and attain salvation?
I think he must help in someway to help bring about God's plan of Divine Providence, Just like God allows evil for the greater good so too he allows Satan to have dominion over the earth. If this were not the case I guess God would have gotten rid of him right away.
Also about Satan's dominion of the earth. In the case of Jesus, Satan offers to give him all the kingdoms(all the earth) which were "given to him" if he bows to him. Is this also a direct result of of The Fall in which "death entered the world"? Did Satan by making Adam and Eve eat of the tree gained some sort of control over God's creation(humanity included)?
Of course this should all fit into God's plan of Divine Providence since like I said nothing can be above or outside God's power and because of this we can be assured that evil will be overcome in the end.
Thanks in advance for your answers,
Asimis
I got thru the part about Satan and Original Sin on the Catechism today and would like to ask for clarification on where Catholic stand regarding several things.
A few things about Satan:
What exactly is Satan? I know he is an spiritual entity and not a principle. Is he just a mindless rebellious angel who rebelled against God on his lust for power or does he has a more specific task to perform in his attempt to lure humanity away from God?
In the book of Job for example we can see a "friendly" discussion between God and Satan in which God allows Satan to ruin Job's life with the single condition of not killing him. By the end of the book, since Job persevered till the end on his faith his life was restored and he was given more than what he had lost.
We know that God is sovereign over his creation (angels and satan included) and that nothing can be above or outside God's power, so does Satan (even if he is not aware of it) "serves" God in the sense of exercising the role of an tempter in order to "test the spirits" of humans to see if they retain their faith in God and attain salvation?
I think he must help in someway to help bring about God's plan of Divine Providence, Just like God allows evil for the greater good so too he allows Satan to have dominion over the earth. If this were not the case I guess God would have gotten rid of him right away.
Also about Satan's dominion of the earth. In the case of Jesus, Satan offers to give him all the kingdoms(all the earth) which were "given to him" if he bows to him. Is this also a direct result of of The Fall in which "death entered the world"? Did Satan by making Adam and Eve eat of the tree gained some sort of control over God's creation(humanity included)?
Of course this should all fit into God's plan of Divine Providence since like I said nothing can be above or outside God's power and because of this we can be assured that evil will be overcome in the end.
Thanks in advance for your answers,
Asimis
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Aaron-Aggie
Legend
272 St. John Damascene, Defide orth. 2, 4: PG 94, 877.
CITED TEXT:
St. John Damascene, De fide orthodoxa 2, 4
Concerning the devil and demons.
He who from among these angelic powers was set over the earthly realm, and into whose hands God committed the guardianship of the earth, was not made wicked in nature but was good, and made for good ends, and received from his Creator no trace whatever of evil in himself. But he did not sustain the brightness and the honour which the Creator had bestowed on him, and of his free choice was changed from what was in harmony to what was at variance with his nature, and became roused against God Who created him, and determined to rise in rebellion against Him: and he was the first to depart from good and become evil. For evil is nothing else than absence of goodness, just as darkness also is absence of light. For goodness is the light of the mind, and, similarly, evil is the darkness of the mind. Light, therefore, being the work of the Creator and being made good (for God saw all that He made, and behold they were exceeding good) produced darkness at His free-will. But along with him an innumerable host of angels subject to him were torn away and followed him and shared in his fall. Wherefore, being of the same nature as the angels, they became wicked, turning away at their own free choice from good to evil.
Hence they have no power or strength against any one except what God in His dispensation hath conceded to them, as for instance, against Job and those swine that are mentioned in the Gospels. But when God has made the concession they do prevail, and are changed and transformed into any form whatever in which they wish to appear.
Of the future both the angels of God and the demons are alike ignorant: yet they make predictions. God reveals the future to the angels and commands them to prophesy, and so what they say comes to pass. But the demons also make predictions, sometimes because they see what is happening at a distance, and sometimes merely making guesses: hence much that they say is false and they should not be believed, even although they do often, in the way we have said, tell what is true. Besides they know the Scriptures.
All wickedness, then, and all impure passions are the work of their mind. But while the liberty to attack man has been granted to them, they have not the strength to over master any one: for we have it in our power to receive or not to receive the attack. Wherefore there has been prepared for the devil and his demons, and those who follow him, fire unquenchable and everlasting punishment. Note, further, that what in the case of man is death is a fall in the case of angels. For after the fall there is no possibility of repentance for them, just as after death there is for men no repentance.
CITED TEXT:
St. John Damascene, De fide orthodoxa 2, 4
Concerning the devil and demons.
He who from among these angelic powers was set over the earthly realm, and into whose hands God committed the guardianship of the earth, was not made wicked in nature but was good, and made for good ends, and received from his Creator no trace whatever of evil in himself. But he did not sustain the brightness and the honour which the Creator had bestowed on him, and of his free choice was changed from what was in harmony to what was at variance with his nature, and became roused against God Who created him, and determined to rise in rebellion against Him: and he was the first to depart from good and become evil. For evil is nothing else than absence of goodness, just as darkness also is absence of light. For goodness is the light of the mind, and, similarly, evil is the darkness of the mind. Light, therefore, being the work of the Creator and being made good (for God saw all that He made, and behold they were exceeding good) produced darkness at His free-will. But along with him an innumerable host of angels subject to him were torn away and followed him and shared in his fall. Wherefore, being of the same nature as the angels, they became wicked, turning away at their own free choice from good to evil.
Hence they have no power or strength against any one except what God in His dispensation hath conceded to them, as for instance, against Job and those swine that are mentioned in the Gospels. But when God has made the concession they do prevail, and are changed and transformed into any form whatever in which they wish to appear.
Of the future both the angels of God and the demons are alike ignorant: yet they make predictions. God reveals the future to the angels and commands them to prophesy, and so what they say comes to pass. But the demons also make predictions, sometimes because they see what is happening at a distance, and sometimes merely making guesses: hence much that they say is false and they should not be believed, even although they do often, in the way we have said, tell what is true. Besides they know the Scriptures.
All wickedness, then, and all impure passions are the work of their mind. But while the liberty to attack man has been granted to them, they have not the strength to over master any one: for we have it in our power to receive or not to receive the attack. Wherefore there has been prepared for the devil and his demons, and those who follow him, fire unquenchable and everlasting punishment. Note, further, that what in the case of man is death is a fall in the case of angels. For after the fall there is no possibility of repentance for them, just as after death there is for men no repentance.
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There is a guide that gets you though the Bible and Catechism in one year. I'll see if I can find a linkATShavuot said:
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Here is is: Guide to Reading the Bible and Catechism in a Year
And you might be interested in this internet study group: http://www.cccisg.org/index.html
And you might be interested in this internet study group: http://www.cccisg.org/index.html
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A few more questions that have popped up while reading the Catechism:
1) During the time of the Old Testament meaning from Adam to Jesus, there was no after life and all who died be them good or evil remained in Sheol/The Grave/Hell until Jesus descended into hell and took the just with him to heaven? Am I correct on this view?
2) Also, now after Christ went into Heaven, when we die we too like the people of the Old Testament remain in Sheol/The Grave/Hell untill Christ returns again for the second time. Right?
Thanks in advance for your answers
1) During the time of the Old Testament meaning from Adam to Jesus, there was no after life and all who died be them good or evil remained in Sheol/The Grave/Hell until Jesus descended into hell and took the just with him to heaven? Am I correct on this view?
2) Also, now after Christ went into Heaven, when we die we too like the people of the Old Testament remain in Sheol/The Grave/Hell untill Christ returns again for the second time. Right?
Thanks in advance for your answers
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Aaron-Aggie
Legend
THe place before JEsus descention is diffrent then Hell as we know it. Thank of the story of the Rich Man and Lasuas, where the great divide sepearted them. They were in the same place but still sepearted
AFter we die we go to Hell, Purgourty or Heaven, but not Sheol
AFter we die we go to Hell, Purgourty or Heaven, but not Sheol
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Aaron-Aggie
Legend
The Catechism of the Catholic Church
Footnote References
Use your browser's BACK button to return to the main Catechism page.
479 Cf. Phil 2:10; Acts 2:24; Rev 1:18; Eph 4:9; Ps 6:6; 88:11-13.
CITED TEXT:
Philippians 2:10
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and in earth and under the earth
Acts 2:24
But God raised him up, having loosed the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it.
Revelation 1:18
and the living one; I died, and behold I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.
Ephesians 4:9
(In saying, "He ascended," what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the earth?)
Psalm 6:6
I am weary with my moaning; every night I flood my bed with tears; I drench my couch with my weeping.
Psalm 88:11-13 Is thy steadfast love declared in the grave, or thy faithfulness in Abaddon?
Are thy wonders known in the darkness, or thy saving help in the land of forgetfulness?
But I, O Lord, cry to thee; in the morning my prayer comes before thee
Footnote References
Use your browser's BACK button to return to the main Catechism page.
479 Cf. Phil 2:10; Acts 2:24; Rev 1:18; Eph 4:9; Ps 6:6; 88:11-13.
CITED TEXT:
Philippians 2:10
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and in earth and under the earth
Acts 2:24
But God raised him up, having loosed the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it.
Revelation 1:18
and the living one; I died, and behold I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.
Ephesians 4:9
(In saying, "He ascended," what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the earth?)
Psalm 6:6
I am weary with my moaning; every night I flood my bed with tears; I drench my couch with my weeping.
Psalm 88:11-13 Is thy steadfast love declared in the grave, or thy faithfulness in Abaddon?
Are thy wonders known in the darkness, or thy saving help in the land of forgetfulness?
But I, O Lord, cry to thee; in the morning my prayer comes before thee
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Aaron-Aggie
Legend
480 Cf. Ps 89:49; I Sam 28:19; Ezek 32:17-32; Lk 16:22-26.
CITED TEXT:
Psalm 89:49
Lord, where is thy steadfast love of old, which by the faithfulness thou didst swear to David?
1 Samuel 28:19
Moreover the Lord will give Israel also with you into the hand of the Philistines; and tomorrow you and your sons shall be with me; the Lord will give the army of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines.
Ezekiel 32:17-32
In the twelfth year, in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the month, the word of the Lord came to me, "Son of man, wail over the multitude of Egypt, and send them down, her and the daughters of majestic nations, to the nether world, to those who have gone down to the Pit: 'Whom do you surpass in beauty? Go down, and be laid with the uncircumcised.' They shall fall amid those who are slain by the sword, and with her shall lie all her multitudes. The mighty chiefs shall speak of them, with their helpers, out of the midst of She'ol: 'They have come down, they lie still, the uncircumcised, slain by the sword.'
Assyria is there, and all her company, their graves round about her, all of them slain, fallen by the sword; whose graves are set in the uttermost parts of the Pit, and her company is round about her grave; all of them slain, fallen by the sword, who spread terror in the land of the living.
E'lam is there, and all her multitude about her grave; all of them slain, fallen by the sword, who went down uncircumcised into the nether world, who spread terror in the land of the living, and they bear their shame with those who go down to the Pit. They have made her a bed among the slain with all her multitude, their graves round about her, all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword; for terror of them was spread in the land of the living, and they bear their shame with those who go down to the Pit; they are placed among the slain.
Me'shech and Tu'bal are there, and all their multitude, their graves round about them, all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword for they spread terror in the land of the living. And they do not lie with the fallen mighty men of old who went down to She'ol with their weapons of war, whose swords were laid under their heads, and whose shields are upon their bones; for the terror of the mighty men was in the land of the living. So you shall be broken and lie among the uncircumcised, with those who are slain by the sword.
E'dom is there, her kings and all her princes, who for all their might are laid with those who are slain by the sword; they lie with the uncircumcised, with those who go down to the Pit.
The princes of the north are there, all ot them, and all the Sido'nians, who have gone down in shame with the slain, for all the terror which they caused by their might; they lie uncircumcised with those who are slain by the sword, and bear their shame with those who go down to the Pit.
When Pharaoh sees them, he will comfort himself for all his multitude, Pharaoh and all his army, slain by the sword, says the Lord God. For he spread terror in thre land of the living; therefore he shall be laid among the uncircumcised, with those who are slain by the sword, Pharaoh and all his multitude, says the Lord God."
Luke 16:22-26
The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried; and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus in his bosom. And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy upon me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame.' But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.'
CITED TEXT:
Psalm 89:49
Lord, where is thy steadfast love of old, which by the faithfulness thou didst swear to David?
1 Samuel 28:19
Moreover the Lord will give Israel also with you into the hand of the Philistines; and tomorrow you and your sons shall be with me; the Lord will give the army of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines.
Ezekiel 32:17-32
In the twelfth year, in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the month, the word of the Lord came to me, "Son of man, wail over the multitude of Egypt, and send them down, her and the daughters of majestic nations, to the nether world, to those who have gone down to the Pit: 'Whom do you surpass in beauty? Go down, and be laid with the uncircumcised.' They shall fall amid those who are slain by the sword, and with her shall lie all her multitudes. The mighty chiefs shall speak of them, with their helpers, out of the midst of She'ol: 'They have come down, they lie still, the uncircumcised, slain by the sword.'
Assyria is there, and all her company, their graves round about her, all of them slain, fallen by the sword; whose graves are set in the uttermost parts of the Pit, and her company is round about her grave; all of them slain, fallen by the sword, who spread terror in the land of the living.
E'lam is there, and all her multitude about her grave; all of them slain, fallen by the sword, who went down uncircumcised into the nether world, who spread terror in the land of the living, and they bear their shame with those who go down to the Pit. They have made her a bed among the slain with all her multitude, their graves round about her, all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword; for terror of them was spread in the land of the living, and they bear their shame with those who go down to the Pit; they are placed among the slain.
Me'shech and Tu'bal are there, and all their multitude, their graves round about them, all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword for they spread terror in the land of the living. And they do not lie with the fallen mighty men of old who went down to She'ol with their weapons of war, whose swords were laid under their heads, and whose shields are upon their bones; for the terror of the mighty men was in the land of the living. So you shall be broken and lie among the uncircumcised, with those who are slain by the sword.
E'dom is there, her kings and all her princes, who for all their might are laid with those who are slain by the sword; they lie with the uncircumcised, with those who go down to the Pit.
The princes of the north are there, all ot them, and all the Sido'nians, who have gone down in shame with the slain, for all the terror which they caused by their might; they lie uncircumcised with those who are slain by the sword, and bear their shame with those who go down to the Pit.
When Pharaoh sees them, he will comfort himself for all his multitude, Pharaoh and all his army, slain by the sword, says the Lord God. For he spread terror in thre land of the living; therefore he shall be laid among the uncircumcised, with those who are slain by the sword, Pharaoh and all his multitude, says the Lord God."
Luke 16:22-26
The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried; and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus in his bosom. And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy upon me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame.' But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.'
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0
Aaron-Aggie
Legend
482 Cf. Council of Rome (745): DS 587; Benedict XII, Cum dudum (1341): DS 1011; Clement VI, Super quibusdam (1351): DS 1077; Council of Toledo IV (625): DS 485; Mt 27:52-53.
CITED TEXT:
Council of Rome (745): DS 587
Clement, who in his ignorance of the holy Fathers rejects their writings and synodal acts, imputes Judaism to Christians when he preaches that a man may many the widow of his deceased brother, and then preaches that Christ, in his descent into hell, led out everyone, the just and the wicked, is to be deprived of all priestly faculties and placed under anathema.
Benedict XII, Cum dudum (1341): DS 1011
Also that the Armenians believe and hold that Christ descended from heaven and became incarnate for the salvation of men, not on account of the fact that the sons propagated from Adam and Eve after their sin contracted from them original sin, from which through the incarnation and death of Christ they will be saved, since they say that no such sin exists in the sons of Adam; but they say that Christ for the salvation of man became incarnate and suffered, because through His passion the sons of Adam who preceded the aforesaid passion have been freed from hell in which they were, not because of original sin which was in them, but because of the gravity of the personal sin of our first parents. They also believe that Christ for the salvation of children who were born after His passion became incarnate and suffered, because by His passion He entirely destroyed hell.
Clement VI, Super quibusdam (1351): DS 1077
Thirteenth, that Christ did not destroy a lower hell by descending into hell.
Council of Toledo IV (625): DS 485
According to the divine Scriptures and the doctrine we have received from the holy Fathers, we confess that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are of one divinity and substance; believing in the difference of persons, preaching oneness in divinity, we neither confuse the persons nor divide the substance. We say that the Father is neither made nor begotten by anyone, but we affirm that the Son is not made but begotten of the Father, and we profess that the Spirit is in truth neither created nor begotten but proceeds from the Father and the Son, but that the Son himself, our Lord Jesus Christ Son of God and creator of all, was begotten of the substance of the Father before all ages and came down in the final age for the world's redemption from the Father, but never ceased being with the Father; for he was incarnate from the Holy Spirit and the holy and glorious virgin Mary Mother of God and was alone born of her; likewise Christ the Lord Jesus, one of the Trinity, took up a man complete with soul and flesh, remaining what he was, taking up what he was not, equal to the Father according to his divinity, less than the Father according to his humanity, possessing in one person the properties of two natures; for there were in him two natures, God and man, but there were not two sons or two gods, but he himself was one person in two natures; suffering passion and death for our salvation, not in virtue of his divinity, but in the weakness of his humanity, he descended into hell to lead out the saints who were held there, and having overcome the dominion of death, he rose; then he was assumed into heaven and he will come again to Judge the living and the dead; cleansed by his death and blood we have received the remission of sins; we will be raised by him on the last day in the flesh in which we now live and in the form in which the Lord himself arose, to receive from him eternal life for the merits of justice or the sentence of eternal punishment for sins. This is the faith of the Catholic Church; we maintain and hold this confession, and whoever preserves this most firmly will have everlasting salvation.
Matthew 27:52-53
the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
CITED TEXT:
Council of Rome (745): DS 587
Clement, who in his ignorance of the holy Fathers rejects their writings and synodal acts, imputes Judaism to Christians when he preaches that a man may many the widow of his deceased brother, and then preaches that Christ, in his descent into hell, led out everyone, the just and the wicked, is to be deprived of all priestly faculties and placed under anathema.
Benedict XII, Cum dudum (1341): DS 1011
Also that the Armenians believe and hold that Christ descended from heaven and became incarnate for the salvation of men, not on account of the fact that the sons propagated from Adam and Eve after their sin contracted from them original sin, from which through the incarnation and death of Christ they will be saved, since they say that no such sin exists in the sons of Adam; but they say that Christ for the salvation of man became incarnate and suffered, because through His passion the sons of Adam who preceded the aforesaid passion have been freed from hell in which they were, not because of original sin which was in them, but because of the gravity of the personal sin of our first parents. They also believe that Christ for the salvation of children who were born after His passion became incarnate and suffered, because by His passion He entirely destroyed hell.
Clement VI, Super quibusdam (1351): DS 1077
Thirteenth, that Christ did not destroy a lower hell by descending into hell.
Council of Toledo IV (625): DS 485
According to the divine Scriptures and the doctrine we have received from the holy Fathers, we confess that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are of one divinity and substance; believing in the difference of persons, preaching oneness in divinity, we neither confuse the persons nor divide the substance. We say that the Father is neither made nor begotten by anyone, but we affirm that the Son is not made but begotten of the Father, and we profess that the Spirit is in truth neither created nor begotten but proceeds from the Father and the Son, but that the Son himself, our Lord Jesus Christ Son of God and creator of all, was begotten of the substance of the Father before all ages and came down in the final age for the world's redemption from the Father, but never ceased being with the Father; for he was incarnate from the Holy Spirit and the holy and glorious virgin Mary Mother of God and was alone born of her; likewise Christ the Lord Jesus, one of the Trinity, took up a man complete with soul and flesh, remaining what he was, taking up what he was not, equal to the Father according to his divinity, less than the Father according to his humanity, possessing in one person the properties of two natures; for there were in him two natures, God and man, but there were not two sons or two gods, but he himself was one person in two natures; suffering passion and death for our salvation, not in virtue of his divinity, but in the weakness of his humanity, he descended into hell to lead out the saints who were held there, and having overcome the dominion of death, he rose; then he was assumed into heaven and he will come again to Judge the living and the dead; cleansed by his death and blood we have received the remission of sins; we will be raised by him on the last day in the flesh in which we now live and in the form in which the Lord himself arose, to receive from him eternal life for the merits of justice or the sentence of eternal punishment for sins. This is the faith of the Catholic Church; we maintain and hold this confession, and whoever preserves this most firmly will have everlasting salvation.
Matthew 27:52-53
the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
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First of all thanks for yoru replies they were very help full No let me ask for some clarification..
Ok, then , what has me confused is this from the Council of Toledo, that you quoted:
"he will come again to Judge the living and the dead; cleansed by his death and blood we have received the remission of sins; we will be raised by him on the last day in the flesh in which we now live and in the form in which the Lord himself arose, to receive from him eternal life for the merits of justice or the sentence of eternal punishment for sins."
This is why I asked that if it is when Jesus comes again that we will we raised and that if before that we are just sleeping while we are dead. So how does it works then? Our soul goes to heaven/hell/purgatory and remain there until the second coming to retrieve our bodies? Or is it like I said that we simly remain dead until Jesus comes again to judge the living and the dead?
Thanks again for taking the time to answer, I will take a look now at the other references that are on the texts you posted.
No let me ask for some clarification..Aaron-Aggie said:
Ok, then , what has me confused is this from the Council of Toledo, that you quoted:
"he will come again to Judge the living and the dead; cleansed by his death and blood we have received the remission of sins; we will be raised by him on the last day in the flesh in which we now live and in the form in which the Lord himself arose, to receive from him eternal life for the merits of justice or the sentence of eternal punishment for sins."
This is why I asked that if it is when Jesus comes again that we will we raised and that if before that we are just sleeping while we are dead. So how does it works then? Our soul goes to heaven/hell/purgatory and remain there until the second coming to retrieve our bodies? Or is it like I said that we simly remain dead until Jesus comes again to judge the living and the dead?
Thanks again for taking the time to answer, I will take a look now at the other references that are on the texts you posted.
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Aaron-Aggie
Legend
our soul goes to one of the three destenation, Upon the second coming we will be reunited with our bodys. Ofcourse time works diffently outside of earth so that might all happen at one instnace we don't know.Asimis said:First of all thanks for yoru replies they were very help full
Ok, then , what has me confused is this from the Council of Toledo, that you quoted:
"he will come again to Judge the living and the dead; cleansed by his death and blood we have received the remission of sins; we will be raised by him on the last day in the flesh in which we now live and in the form in which the Lord himself arose, to receive from him eternal life for the merits of justice or the sentence of eternal punishment for sins."
This is why I asked that if it is when Jesus comes again that we will we raised and that if before that we are just sleeping while we are dead. So how does it works then? Our soul goes to heaven/hell/purgatory and remain there until the second coming to retrieve our bodies? Or is it like I said that we simly remain dead until Jesus comes again to judge the living and the dead?
Thanks again for taking the time to answer, I will take a look now at the other references that are on the texts you posted.
One suggestion your get more response with specfic threads
people tend to ignore threads around here unless they look new
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Aaron-Aggie said:One suggestion your get more response with specfic threads
Thanks for your replies
I know, the thing is that I didn't want to start a topic for every question I had about the Catechism. But I guess I will have to start a new topic for each if I am to get any replies
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Aaron-Aggie
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yep or check out the catchisem subforum it dosn't get much traffic but previous discusion there might help you
Or start a thread and see if you can get a catchisem study group going.
or check out the catchisem subforum it dosn't get much traffic but previous discusion there might help you Or start a thread and see if you can get a catchisem study group going.
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