Caring for creation is central to Pope Francis' papacy

[Fish and Bread]

Link:

https://www.ncronline.org/blogs/making-difference/caring-creation-central-pope-francis-papacy

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Thank you for sharing the link, Fish. It is interesting to read what the Pope has to say about the environment.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

In an attempt to start a discussion, if I may respectfully ask, what did you think about what Pope Francis said on the environment, Fish?

 

[Fish and Bread]

In an attempt to start a discussion, if I may respectfully ask, what did you think about what Pope Francis said on the environment, Fish?

I think he's been wonderful on the issue of global climate change. This is something that already has killed people and made the lives of many other people worse. It's already hurting the planet. However, what has happened is nothing compared to what will happen if we don't do something to reign in the amount of CO2 we emit in the atmosphere. And, as usual, it is going to the poorest people, especially the global poor, who suffer first, who suffer the most, and who suffer the longest. In the long run, though, even the rich will not be immune to the type of destabilization and the equivalent of crises like Katrina occurring in a ton of cities around the world concurrently, without the ability to recover that New Orleans had. In the end, global climate change will kill more people than terrorism.

My favorite childhood vacation spot will likely be underwater by the time I am an old man, if I live that long.

The Pope has done a wonderful job of not only pointing out the stark reality of the situation and warning us to do something about it, but he's also done two other things that I think are important. First, he's framed it as a matter of faith and morals, which is important because many Catholics in the US especially have in recent history defined matters of faith and morals as doctrine that must be obeyed, and everything else as option- and so have said that the church's teachings on, say, homosexuality, were iron-clad, while the church's teachings on things like the environment were not as binding because they weren't issues of faith and morals. Pope Francis has correctly framed global climate change and income inequality and such as matters of faith and morals, which makes it more difficult for people who take what they were saying to everyone else to promote their conservative views seriously and weren't just using it as a rhetorical device, to simply discount what he is saying, although of course some do find a way anyway, because people do what they want to do.

Second, the Pope should be applauded for making it very clear that global climate change is something that the nations of the world need to come together and mitigate as best they can through treaties and laws. That's another out people used to use in Catholic circles- they'd say that of course we should respect the environment, but that it was a personal thing, and not a political thing. The only way to combat global climate change is going to come from changes in the way things are done that are dictated by law. Individuals are never going to act in their own and the planet's law-term interests at the expense of even some small portion of their own short-term interests on a large scale.

Further, corporations, who are the main problems here in terms of how much they and the products they make pollute, are always going to look for whatever makes them the most profit in the short term, because those are the market incentives, and in fact by law corporations are to some degree required to do what will bring them the most profit. So, we need governments to act and to regulate corporations and change their financial incentives toward being friendly toward the planet. This includes carbon taxes, cap and trade, bans on the production of new dirty energy facilities, incentives for new clean energy facilities, tougher emissions standards for new automobiles, etc.. In the end, global climate change won't get worse or be held to as whatever damage we've already got coming because our past actions have not yet fully taken effect, based on the actions of the average citizen- it is going to have to come from governments and from corporations acting under laws that force them to act in the interests of the planet and the long-term interests of the human race on related issues.

When Pope Francis visited America and turned to President Obama and thanked him for new EPA regulations, that was a really seminal moment. A bringing together of my national heritage with my religious heritage for the greater good. So often, representatives of both do bad things, but on that day the country and the church were standing together for good.

Now, I do think there are some hard teachings here. The Pope may well be right about us needing to consume less individually. I doubt I'm ever going to be the poster child for that, but I probably *should* be doing that. Even though individually I can't have an effect, it still may be a moral issue. It may be a failing of mine that I consume too much as an individual- and I am not sure I can or am willing to fix it, though I kind of wish I was that type of person. However, that aside, the most important thing, as I think the Pope recognizes, is getting the government to do the right thing. And if the government does the right thing, we can have our gadgets and our cars and whatever else, they will just be made and run in more environmentally friendly ways, with clean energy and so on and so forth- which is a win all the way around. And I vote for people who care about global climate change and will work to mitigate it- consistently.

Another interesting angle is the beginning of a theology that reflects a greater sense of spiritual unity between people, animals, plants, and the planet itself. That we are not just these people who happen to be living here, that we are part of an ecology, and that ecology is part of us, and we all reflect the image of God, and that perhaps we have moral obligations to care for what has been left to us, and to make sure we leave it in good shape for others. Jesus asked us to see God in the face of other people, maybe one day a successor of his right-hand man, St. Peter, will ask us to see the face of God in a rhino or a tree or a flower or in the air we breath. Perhaps the boundaries between God and the world are not quite what we perceive them to be, and that we are all part of something together- from the smallest single-celled organism right up to God herself. Pope Francis isn't there, and maybe that goes too far, but it's something I think about, and can't help but seeing as potentially a good evolution of thought if it occurs, even if I am not sure I am ready for it yet. Maybe the generation after mine or the generation after that generation will be.

 

[Fish and Bread]

This is a poem from St. Francis of Assisi:

Most high, all powerful, all good Lord!
All praise is Yours, all glory, all honor, and all blessing.

To You, alone, Most High, do they belong.
No mortal lips are worthy to pronounce Your name.

Be praised, my Lord, through all Your creatures,
especially through my lord Brother Sun,
who brings the day; and You give light through him.
And he is beautiful and radiant in all his splendor!
Of You, Most High, he bears the likeness.

Be praised, my Lord, through Sister Moon and the stars;
in the heavens You have made them bright, precious and beautiful.

Be praised, my Lord, through Brothers Wind and Air,
and clouds and storms, and all the weather,
through which You give Your creatures sustenance.

Be praised, my Lord, through Sister Water;
she is very useful, and humble, and precious, and pure.

Be praised, my Lord, through Brother Fire,
through whom You brighten the night.
He is beautiful and cheerful, and powerful and strong.

Be praised, my Lord, through our sister Mother Earth,
who feeds us and rules us,
and produces various fruits with colored flowers and herbs.

Be praised, my Lord, through those who forgive for love of You;
through those who endure sickness and trial.

Happy those who endure in peace,
for by You, Most High, they will be crowned.

Be praised, my Lord, through our sister Bodily Death,
from whose embrace no living person can escape.
Woe to those who die in mortal sin!
Happy those she finds doing Your most holy will.
The second death can do no harm to them.

Praise and bless my Lord, and give thanks,
and serve Him with great humility.

Source: https://www.sydneycatholic.org/news/latest_news/2015/2015617_1433.shtml

Though I think (And could easily be mistaken, it's only a very vague hazy recollection) that Pope Francis took his Papal name from another, later, St. Francis, rather than the author of this poem (A lot of times there are several Saints of a given first name because sometimes devout parents name their babies after Saints and some of them grow up to be Saints themselves), I can't help but think Pope Francis also has some things in common with the first St. Francis, St. Francis of Assisi, who wrote the poem quoted above. Pope Francis himself might one day be yet another Saint Francis.

 

[Fantine]

St. Francis Xavier was a Jesuit saint, a missionary to far off lands, including, I believe, China. Nevertheless, I agree that Pope Francis chose his name for Francis of Assisi.

I think that much of what you said about the interconnectedness of all creatures reflecting God's image is very much the thought process that Teilhard de Chardin postulated.

What I liked about Laudato Si is that Francis traced so many of our environmental crises to economic causes, income inequality (especially between developed nations and the third world), and corporate and personal greed. It is true that those two factors are very much intertwined.

 

[Fish and Bread]

St. Francis Xavier was a Jesuit saint, a missionary to far off lands, including, I believe, China. Nevertheless, I agree that Pope Francis chose his name for Francis of Assisi.

I think that much of what you said about the interconnectedness of all creatures reflecting God's image is very much the thought process that Teilhard de Chardin postulated.

What I liked about Laudato Si is that Francis traced so many of our environmental crises to economic causes, income inequality (especially between developed nations and the third world), and corporate and personal greed. It is true that those two factors are very much intertwined.

Yikes. I just lost an hour plus of tapping into my phone about Father Telihard due to a browser crash. Its a shame the message forum software doesn't autonatically save drafts of works in progress like my email software.

Anyway, I don't have the heart to try to recreate all that, but I've always meant to get around to really delving into Telihard's writings in a deeper way. He was a very interesting guy with some very interesting ideas. I wouldn't necessarily endorse them all, but they are certainly unique and intellectually gripping. I'd love to read a thread where people really delve into discussing his ideas with each other.

 

[Colin]

Our economic systems with the emphasis on the individual and the ever increasing production of goods to keep the systems going make it difficult to implement what Pope Francis is calling for .

As Pope Francis says , " As individuals, we have grown comfortable with certain lifestyles shaped by a distorted culture of prosperity and a "disordered desire to consume more than what is really necessary" (Laudato Si', 123), and we are participants in a system that "has imposed the mentality of profit at any price, with no concern for social exclusion or the destruction of nature" [Francis' July 9, 2015, address to the Second World Meeting of Popular Movements]. Let us repent of the harm we are doing to our common home."

We are reluctant to let go of what makes us comfortable .

The message of Western cultures is to seek comfort .

We only need to look at the adverts on TV .

 

[Fantine]

In the United States, Colin, we have seen all those trends of profits before people, selfishness, and individualism exacerbate over the past 30-40 years, and it is important for us to work to counteract those trends in our society.

And one of the important ways for us to do this is by working for structural changes in government.

 

[Martinius]

The Pope's recent message is consistent with his encyclical and his papacy. One wonders how well Catholics and others will accept it. I have this feeling that 50 or 100 years hence, when the damage we are doing to our "one and only home" is beyond our ability to repair, people will ask each other why no one was listening to the Pope and to the warnings of many others, and not acting on them. We see an example of this in the sea level coastal areas, including large cities and military installations, where the effects are already apparent and getting worse. Some in those places are calling for action, while others ignore it and refuse to believe the evidence lapping at their feet.

We must also try not to limit what the Pope is saying to just global warming. Even if that were not happening, there would still be the problem of environmental degradation caused by clear cutting, mining, over fishing, air, water and ground pollution, etc. Pope Francis emphasizes the problems these are causing, especially to the most vulnerable among us. We are mortgaging the future health and well-being of billions of people for the sake of bigger short term profits for an elite few.

 

[Fish and Bread]

The Pope's recent message is consistent with his encyclical and his papacy. One wonders how well Catholics and others will accept it. I have this feeling that 50 or 100 years hence, when the damage we are doing to our "one and only home" is beyond our ability to repair, people will ask each other why no one was listening to the Pope and to the warnings of many others, and not acting on them. We see an example of this in the sea level coastal areas, including large cities and military installations, where the effects are already apparent and getting worse. Some in those places are calling for action, while others ignore it and refuse to believe the evidence lapping at their feet.

We must also try not to limit what the Pope is saying to just global warming. Even if that were not happening, there would still be the problem of environmental degradation caused by clear cutting, mining, over fishing, air, water and ground pollution, etc. Pope Francis emphasizes the problems these are causing, especially to the most vulnerable among us. We are mortgaging the future health and well-being of billions of people for the sake of bigger short term profits for an elite few.

I agree with you in principle about not limiting what the Pope is saying to global climate change, *but* I think it is the point he most emphasizes and the point that we should most emphasize. The first reason for that is because it is in fact the most urgent issue that is going to have the most direct impact on human life the most quickly.

The second is because climate change denialism is so widespread, and so is the idea that we have no corporate (ie collective) responsibility to mitigate it through laws and regulation, and so the point really has to be hammered home that its real, it is going to have a huge impact on human beings, and that we need to support governments, parties, candidates, regulations, laws, and treaties that mitigate it as much as we still can (Unfortunately the alternative is that we won't addresss the issue in a significant enough way), and tha this is the smart thing, the humane thing, and the only thing that is in accordance with the Catholic faith as propogated by the Surpreme Pontiff.

Otherwise, we wind up with people distilling it to (an actual reaction to the encyclical I saw from someone who shall remain nameless): "Give a hoot, don't pollute". It does say that in part, essentially, but its a lot more than that, and if we let the "more" part get drowned out by conservative ideologues, it will result in the greatest catastophe in human history. So, that's part of why I tend to keep an almost progamatic focus on global climate change, the mitigation of which will also result in cleaner air and so on and so forth as side effects, but very desireable ones!

 

[Fantine]

Pope Francis' spirituality demands so much of us.

Truthfully, how much does it take for most people to stand against abortion? Especially if (as is often the case) they cede all responsibility for the baby to the parents at the moment of birth.

How much does it take for most people to oppose gay marriage?

I am not saying that there is not significant sacrifice involved for women who choose life in difficult circumstances (aka in some circles as "inconvenience") or practicing lifelong chastity--but it doesn't require sacrifice and lifestyle changes from all of us.

I think this is why the outcry against "Laudato Si" is so great. Let's face it--the biggest opponents of abortion and gay marriage are probably not impoverished teen mothers or the LGBT community--they are probably people who are not affected personally.

But following the difficult challenges posed by "Laudato Si" affects all of us.

Or, as Twelve Step Programs would say, the first step is to overcoming our addiction to material comforts is admitting our denial.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

I am encouraged to see an increasing concern for the environment. I am glad to see the rest of the world finally catching up with Indigenous people. I am kidding, of course. I was a bit surprised though to learn from the article that Pope Francis is the first pope to talk about the environment and actually address environmental issues.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

While I teased a bit in my previous post, I am very serious about taking care of and protecting the creation. I care deeply for the environment. I am greatly concerned with protecting and preserving the land, the water, and all other resources provided for human survival for our children, our grandchildren, and future generations of children to come. It is an issue that has always been close to my heart. But this is not a recent issue or a new revelation. It has been around for thousands and thousands of years.

"Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your
children. We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children."

"Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to
the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect." - Chief Seattle

 

[Fish and Bread]

Chief Seattle

Having read this post, I was curious as to what relationship this Chief Seattle may or may not have had with the city of Seattle in Washington State. Turns out that the city was named after him! I'm sure Voices that Carry knew that, but I thought some others reading the thread might have, like me, not been aware of the connection, and might find it of interest.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Yes, I knew that.

 

[tadoflamb]

Chief Seattle was an incredible person.

I look forward to hearing some of what he has taught.

*wink, wink, nudge, nudge*

 

[Martinius]

I agree with you in principle about not limiting what the Pope is saying to global climate change, *but* I think it is the point he most emphasizes and the point that we should most emphasize. The first reason for that is because it is in fact the most urgent issue that is going to have the most direct impact on human life the most quickly.

The second is because climate change denialism is so widespread, and so is the idea that we have no corporate (ie collective) responsibility to mitigate it through laws and regulation, and so the point really has to be hammered home that its real, it is going to have a huge impact on human beings, and that we need to support governments, parties, candidates, regulations, laws, and treaties that mitigate it as much as we still can (Unfortunately the alternative is that we won't addresss the issue in a significant enough way), and tha this is the smart thing, the humane thing, and the only thing that is in accordance with the Catholic faith as propogated by the Surpreme Pontiff.

Otherwise, we wind up with people distilling it to (an actual reaction to the encyclical I saw from someone who shall remain nameless): "Give a hoot, don't pollute". It does say that in part, essentially, but its a lot more than that, and if we let the "more" part get drowned out by conservative ideologues, it will result in the greatest catastophe in human history. So, that's part of why I tend to keep an almost progamatic focus on global climate change, the mitigation of which will also result in cleaner air and so on and so forth as side effects, but very desireable ones!

I see climate change as one aspect of what the Pope discusses in his encyclical, but not the main point. Early in that document the Pope says the earth "now cries out to us because of the harm we have inflicted on her by our irresponsible use and abuse of the goods with which God has endowed her. We have come to see ourselves as her lords and masters, entitled to plunder her at will." This is his theme, with global warming one result of that abuse. Climate change is a problem that must be addressed now, but there are other issues, such as depletion of resources, that are urgent as well. As the Pope points out, much of what we are doing to our earth has great negative effect on humans, especially those in third world areas.

 

[tadoflamb]

Having read this post, I was curious as to what relationship this Chief Seattle may or may not have had with the city of Seattle in Washington State. Turns out that the city was named after him! I'm sure Voices that Carry knew that, but I thought some others reading the thread might have, like me, not been aware of the connection, and might find it of interest.

Here's probably his most famous speech

Your dead cease to love you and the land of their nativity as soon as they pass the portals of the tomb and wander away beyond the stars. They are soon forgotten and never return. Our dead never forget this beautiful world that gave them being. They still love its verdant valleys, its murmuring rivers, its magnificent mountains, sequestered vales and verdant lined lakes and bays, and ever yearn in tender fond affection over the lonely hearted living, and often return from the happy hunting ground to visit, guide, console, and comfort them.

http://www.halcyon.com/arborhts/chiefsea.html