Can't find a verse!

[flameingcrouton]

I have a friend who says genisis "must be taken with a grain of salt". He uses this reason to back up his claim that the adam and eve story isn't true. I know there is a verse somewhere that states that the bible is infalible, but I can't find it. Can someone help me.

 

[Master X]

Hello, I'll try to help as I can, but Genesis IS indeed true......There are a few verses that describes that ALL scriptures are true, but before I get into that, I will explain that Genesis has been backed up by the its own anti-source believe which is The Evolution Time Table.

If you compare the Time Table of Evolution with Genesis, you can see that there is no difference and that each time frame/sequences of events of the time table matches that of Genesis, what was suppose to disprove the bible actually backs it up.

Next In Scripture: 2 Timothy 3:15-17 says:

"
15You have been taught the holy Scriptures from childhood, and they have given you the wisdom to receive the salvation that comes by trusting in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It straightens us out and teaches us to do what is right. 17It is God's way of preparing us in every way, fully equipped for every good thing God wants us to do."

^This mean that ALL Scripture (the Holy Bible.) is inspired by God, inspired meaning to create/think before put into action, Also inspiration and be inputed into human minds, Such as the authors of the chapters of the bible, even though they're were written in different histories and times, and with different styles, because it is inspired by God, All chapters are linked to each other and a revelant to one another, enabling the Bible to be infalliable to human intellect. And because God cannot lie, what He says is the truth, Genesis is one of the most trivial yet the most evidential.

 

[flameingcrouton]

Hello, I'll try to help as I can, but Genesis IS indeed true......There are a few verses that describes that ALL scriptures are true, but before I get into that, I will explain that Genesis has been backed up by the its own anti-source believe which is The Evolution Time Table.

If you compare the Time Table of Evolution with Genesis, you can see that there is no difference and that each time frame/sequences of events of the time table matches that of Genesis, what was suppose to disprove the bible actually backs it up.

Next In Scripture: 2 Timothy 3:15-17 says:

"
15You have been taught the holy Scriptures from childhood, and they have given you the wisdom to receive the salvation that comes by trusting in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It straightens us out and teaches us to do what is right. 17It is God's way of preparing us in every way, fully equipped for every good thing God wants us to do."

^This mean that ALL Scripture (the Holy Bible.) is inspired by God, inspired meaning to create/think before put into action, Also inspiration and be inputed into human minds, Such as the authors of the chapters of the bible, even though they're were written in different histories and times, and with different styles, because it is inspired by God, All chapters are linked to each other and a revelant to one another, enabling the Bible to be infalliable to human intellect. And because God cannot lie, what He says is the truth, Genesis is one of the most trivial yet the most evidential.

thank u very much. who exactly were those verses quoting by the way.

 

[Master X]

thank u very much. who exactly were those verses quoting by the way.

If I am correct, It is qouted by Apostle Paul, because again inspired by God and inputed into Paul by the Holy Spirit that God gave him. The Holy Spirit is what explains to us how the Bible is infalliable, and tells the Truth, and gives us the testimony of the Lord Jesus Christ and of His death on the cross and is sacrafice of His life for us sinners. Without the Holy Spirit of God, Paul could never write any chapter in the Bible, due to that he wouldnt know nothing about God or the Good News. But because he was baptized with the Holy Spirit, God showed him and MANY others throughout the Bible what to say and write to fulfill God's plan for humanity.

 

[selwyn]

I have a friend who says genisis "must be taken with a grain of salt". He uses this reason to back up his claim that the adam and eve story isn't true. I know there is a verse somewhere that states that the bible is infalible, but I can't find it. Can someone help me.

Here are some of the verses with reference that might help you:

Psalm 18:30
As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless. He is a shield for all who take refuge in him.

Proverbs 30:5
"Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.

Psalm 33:4
For the word of the Lord is right and true; he is faithful in all he does.

And the following passage is one of my favorite set of verses which clearly explains the truthfulness of God' word as written by a simple fisherman, Peter

2 Peter 1: 16-21
16For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." 18And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
19And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Hope these verses help.

 

[ChristianDude777]

Here are some of the verses with reference that might help you:

Psalm 18:30
As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless. He is a shield for all who take refuge in him.

Proverbs 30:5
"Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.

Psalm 33:4
For the word of the Lord is right and true; he is faithful in all he does.

And the following passage is one of my favorite set of verses which clearly explains the truthfulness of God' word as written by a simple fisherman, Peter

2 Peter 1: 16-21
16For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." 18And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
19And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Hope these verses help.

Excellent..!!!! Very well done...

Tim L.

 

[JJM]

just to note genesis says the sky is blue because there is water above it and that when in rains God opens little doors in the sky.

 

[Bradford]

MOD HAT

MOVED: Questions by Non-Christians to Baptist/Anabaptist.

Please observe the new rules, due to this thread's new location. Non-Baptist/Anabaptist forum members will no longer be allowed to debate.

 

[novcncy]

Hello, I'll try to help as I can, but Genesis IS indeed true......There are a few verses that describes that ALL scriptures are true, but before I get into that, I will explain that Genesis has been backed up by the its own anti-source believe which is The Evolution Time Table.

If you compare the Time Table of Evolution with Genesis, you can see that there is no difference and that each time frame/sequences of events of the time table matches that of Genesis, what was suppose to disprove the bible actually backs it up.

Next In Scripture: 2 Timothy 3:15-17 says:

"
15You have been taught the holy Scriptures from childhood, and they have given you the wisdom to receive the salvation that comes by trusting in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It straightens us out and teaches us to do what is right. 17It is God's way of preparing us in every way, fully equipped for every good thing God wants us to do."

^This mean that ALL Scripture (the Holy Bible.) is inspired by God, inspired meaning to create/think before put into action, Also inspiration and be inputed into human minds, Such as the authors of the chapters of the bible, even though they're were written in different histories and times, and with different styles, because it is inspired by God, All chapters are linked to each other and a revelant to one another, enabling the Bible to be infalliable to human intellect. And because God cannot lie, what He says is the truth, Genesis is one of the most trivial yet the most evidential.

Hi Master X,

Those same verses you quoted from Timothy sprang to my mind too, when I read the OP. If God took the time to inspire someone to write it down, it must be important and correct, no?

Also, there are a million logical proofs against evolution. For instance, the accumulation of cosmic dust. That's why the lunar landers had those big, disc looking things on their legs, because at the rate cosmic dust accumulates, there should have been tens of feet of it on the moon. It wasn't there. Or the rate at which the sun is consuming itself. Five billion years ago, it would have been larger than the Earth's orbit. How does that one add up?

Anyway, thanks for putting those verses up.

 

[PapaLandShark]

I have a friend who says genisis "must be taken with a grain of salt". He uses this reason to back up his claim that the adam and eve story isn't true. I know there is a verse somewhere that states that the bible is infalible, but I can't find it. Can someone help me.

What part of Genesis is he having issues with? I love debating this book. Awesome.

 

[Crazy Liz]

I have a friend who says genisis "must be taken with a grain of salt". He uses this reason to back up his claim that the adam and eve story isn't true. I know there is a verse somewhere that states that the bible is infalible, but I can't find it. Can someone help me.

Sorry, but there is no verse that says the Bible is infallible. Since the Bible is a collection of books collated some time after they were all written, there is no logical way any of its books could make a statement about the entire collection, which did not yet exist at the time the last book was written.

That said, I think a "grain of salt" is not a very good phrase to use in interpreting Genesis. The Adam and Eve story is true, theologically and poetically, even if not empirically factual. JJM makes a good point about Genesis referring to heaven having windows through which rain fell. Infallibility, truth and empirical accuracy are not the same thing.

 

[indra_fanatic]

The Adam and Eve story is true, theologically and poetically, even if not empirically factual.

Evidence please?

JJM makes a good point about Genesis referring to heaven having windows through which rain fell. Infallibility, truth and empirical accuracy are not the same thing.

I do know what you are getting at, but a teaching as central as this kind of loses a lot of meaning if it did not actually happen.

At a minimum, there is sufficient scientific nebulousness to state that Biblical Creation cannot be proven or disproven. Do you feel differently?

 

[mesue]

just to note genesis says the sky is blue because there is water above it and that when in rains God opens little doors in the sky.

And the point is ... ?
Book, Chapter and Verse, please.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Evidence please?

What kind of evidence do you want? Evidence for theological and poetic truth is certainly not empirical.

At a minimum, there is sufficient scientific nebulousness to state that Biblical Creation cannot be proven or disproven. Do you feel differently?

No. I think think that's what I said. The fact that it cannot be proven or disproven empirically does not take away from its truth theologically.

 

[PapaLandShark]

Folks...if you want to debate go here.

http://www.christianforums.com/t1815767-adam-eve.html

Peace to you.

 

[indra_fanatic]

No. I think think that's what I said. The fact that it cannot be proven or disproven empirically does not take away from its truth theologically.

Liz, I meant that at a minimum it can't be proven or disproven. Of course, I certainly believe and know that there was some sort of literal creation. I tend to be very "black and white" and at times miss key nuances, so why don't you explain what you mean by theological truth that is aside from literal truth in this case?

My point is that there is not much room for figurativeness in the creation story. Either it happened or it didn't. If it didn't, as Paul would say much later on, we are the worst of all fools.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Liz, I meant that at a minimum it can't be proven or disproven. Of course, I certainly believe and know that there was some sort of literal creation. I tend to be very "black and white" and at times miss key nuances, so why don't you explain what you mean by theological truth that is aside from literal truth in this case?

You are treating the word "literal" as if it is synonymous with "empirical." Looking up the definition at dictionary.com, it is apparent that the meaning of this word has changed. The first definition in the second entry (from WordNet 2.0) is closest to the primary meaning. Several of the other definitions evidence evolution of the word's usage to refer to empiricism.

Definitions aside, yes, I affirm that God created the heavens and the earth. The degree to which the poetic accounts in Genesis resemble God's creative activity empirically described is an open question.

My point is that there is not much room for figurativeness in the creation story. Either it happened or it didn't. If it didn't, as Paul would say much later on, we are the worst of all fools.

No, Paul said that about Christ's resurrection, not about Genesis.

If it is important to you to think of creation only in the terms used in Genesis, then by all means do so. The OP was looking for a way to engage in a discussion with his friend who says the story in Genesis isn't true. I am saying that empirical fact is not the only form of truth. If the OP and his friend recognized other possible nuances of truth besides empirical fact, they might be able to come to a mutual understanding, or at least have some words they could use to communicate better about this question.

 

[indra_fanatic]

No, Paul said that about Christ's resurrection, not about Genesis.

The lesson would apply in general to all fundamental teachings. If what we believe is a lie, then we are the most pitiable of all human beings.

If it is important to you to think of creation only in the terms used in Genesis, then by all means do so.

Well, part of my reason for replying to you was that I want to hear what kinds of non-empirical significance you derive from the creation account.

If the OP and his friend recognized other possible nuances of truth besides empirical fact, they might be able to come to a mutual understanding, or at least have some words they could use to communicate better about this question.

Fair enough. I acknowledge coming late into this conversation and not reading far back.

I simply was trying to ask: why should anyone, at all, sell the Gen account short? There are easily enough discrepancies, contradictions, doubts, and just mere areas of insufficient knowledge in the fossil record, carbon dating, and evolutionary biology to account for a verbatim Genesis history or something very like it. Modern scientific method has not painted us into a corner that we have to make concessions to it.

I don't rule out gap theories, old-earth scenarios, second-earth scenarios, or even some sort of theistic evolution, but IMHO these become far more complicated to explain and reconcile with Scripture, and are thus less plausible, than sticking with what Gen says. While it doesn't need any stating that Scripture is not meant to be a scientific treatise (the Lord gave us brains and a spirit of curiosity to find out about His works on our own), it never lies or misleads about what we know as science today either.

Example: People may say that in the Torah where God explains that bats are a forbidden bird, we have evidence that Scripture has no credibility in natural and taxonomic issues. However, this is irrelevant because (a) the average ancient person observing a bat WOULD conclude that it is some kind of bird and God would speak to them in understandable language, and (b) we must remember that our own Linnaean system is arbitrary and not the only method of classification that exists in the world...

 

[Crazy Liz]

The lesson would apply in general to all fundamental teachings. If what we believe is a lie, then we are the most pitiable of all human beings.

Did I ever say anything in scripture is a lie? I was trying to say exactly the opposite.

(Ever notice my sig?)

Well, part of my reason for replying to you was that I want to hear what kinds of non-empirical significance you derive from the creation account.

I don't usually debate creation/evolution. I really intended only to post about biblical interpretation.

Fair enough. I acknowledge coming late into this conversation and not reading far back.

OK.