Can't find a church - need to get baptized

eleos1954 · Feb 24, 2018

Andreas89 said:
I am a believer that one needs to be baptized to be saved. I am not asking for a debate on this particular topic.

I also can't seem to find someone to baptize me. I know that there doesn't appear to be any directions as to who can baptize and who can't, besides the examples of who was doing the baptism in the Bible, and even then it doesn't seem to mention that only they were permitted to do so. 1 Corinthians 5:11 gives some directives on what type of so called brothers to not associate with, so if any so called brother had these attributes, I would not want them to be performing the baptism.

The churches I've been to I have noticed that they are falling away from scripture. I believe the "once saved always saved" doctrine is a false doctrine leading people to destruction, which is the doctrine taught in an independent fundamental baptist church I attended. Many churches have women speaking and singing in them, a violation of the command given in 1 Corinthians 14:34. I have also researched and come across the occult, and am familiar with the telltale hand signs that supposed freemasons, or other members of secretive organizations do. I might have read/seen somewhere that they believe these hand signs are casting spells on people, a form of witchcraft or some kind of magick. Of all the last 3 churches I've relatively recently attended, each pastor has performed at least 1 of these hand signs. Now I know I can't draw any definitive conclusions from this, without confirmation from them directly, especially since it is possible they are doing them naively and without knowing their significance. However, I am suspicious, and would not be surprised if a majority of churches have been infiltrated. Matthew 7:15, 2 Timothy 3:13 state that this type of infiltration will take place. Especially in combination with the fact that each pastor has been preaching things, that in my opinion, are completely unbiblical.

I thought about an Orthodox church, but I noticed they have a lot of images in their churches, which seems to be a violation of Exodus 20:4.

I'm really having a hard time finding a righteous Christian to baptize me. I thought about going in to the church again to speak to the people attending, and potentially find someone to baptize me, but if I suspect the pastors are intentionally deceiving (or are deceived themselves and resultantly deceiving) and potentially performing witchcraft, why would I want to even be a part of such a place? 1 Thessalonians 5:22

What do I do to find someone to baptize me? Do I put up a craigslit/kijiji ad? And in the same vein, where do I find Christian fellowship? I'm thinking in this day and age, and with my experience of the churches, I may have to resort to the internet for fellowship.

"I am a believer that one needs to be baptized to be saved."

My understanding of baptism is it is the outwardly testimony that you have accepted Jesus and that you are saved. It is an important step but it within itself does not save you.

When I accepted Jesus I was not a church goer at all, still am not, I study the word of God. I was driven by the Holy Spirit to be baptized ... it was powerful. I went to several churches and most would only baptize me if I became a member of their church. Say what????? Well I kept knocking on doors and finally found a church that would baptize me ... Church of the Nazarene. The way I looked at it was ... one ... it had to be submersion because that's what the bible teaches, two ... it had to be sincere on my part .... and three it don't require I become a member of a particular church. The baptisim is between the believer and God ... not between the believer and the church ... that is the "organized church". Getting baptized does not mean one is accepting the teachings of that church, you are accepting and acknowledging Jesus coming into your life. Church? All who have accepted Jesus as their savior are a member of His church.
Go ahead and get baptized, study Gods word ..... that's what is important.

Mountainmike · Feb 24, 2018

I think you need to study the bible in a more holistic fashion rather than proof text opinions from single verses.

The context of exodus 20:4 , the verses before and after make it clear: the reference is to other Gods, or the making of images of other Gods, idolatry, a persistent problem with that generation a the bible attests.

Images are not forbidden, indeed solomons temple had images , statues of Angels,. Pictures that are there, are there to remind you of those they depict, so are not idols. Go into a Catholic Church and everywhere are images and statues of Christ. Clearly those present do not worship the statues but Christ, and such as the stations of the cross are there to remind of the passion. They are not there to worship as idols. You ( probably) also have pictures of loved ones on your walls at home, neither are they idols or in violation of any creed.

My suggestion is you study the early church fathers , those even taught by apostles to see what the early church was and what was handed down as truth.. See a liturgical sacramental church , with bishops appointed in success,ion who alone were empowered to perform a valid Eucharist of the real presence, the "real flesh" of Jesus. Even those taught directly by apostles had those views, as demonstrated by polycarp and ignatius taught by John the apostle. The descendants of those fathers in council later exercised the power Jesus gave to " bind and loose" in deciding the canon you call the New Testament. Without them you would not have a New Testament, See what those fathers believed - including intercession of saints,

Then find a church that has held those views from the first times. There is only one - the catholic church " the pillar and foundation of truth" , from which all others split away.

Andreas89 said:
I am a believer that one needs to be baptized to be saved. I am not asking for a debate on this particular topic.

I also can't seem to find someone to baptize me. I know that there doesn't appear to be any directions as to who can baptize and who can't, besides the examples of who was doing the baptism in the Bible, and even then it doesn't seem to mention that only they were permitted to do so. 1 Corinthians 5:11 gives some directives on what type of so called brothers to not associate with, so if any so called brother had these attributes, I would not want them to be performing the baptism.

The churches I've been to I have noticed that they are falling away from scripture. I believe the "once saved always saved" doctrine is a false doctrine leading people to destruction, which is the doctrine taught in an independent fundamental baptist church I attended. Many churches have women speaking and singing in them, a violation of the command given in 1 Corinthians 14:34. I have also researched and come across the occult, and am familiar with the telltale hand signs that supposed freemasons, or other members of secretive organizations do. I might have read/seen somewhere that they believe these hand signs are casting spells on people, a form of witchcraft or some kind of magick. Of all the last 3 churches I've relatively recently attended, each pastor has performed at least 1 of these hand signs. Now I know I can't draw any definitive conclusions from this, without confirmation from them directly, especially since it is possible they are doing them naively and without knowing their significance. However, I am suspicious, and would not be surprised if a majority of churches have been infiltrated. Matthew 7:15, 2 Timothy 3:13 state that this type of infiltration will take place. Especially in combination with the fact that each pastor has been preaching things, that in my opinion, are completely unbiblical.

I thought about an Orthodox church, but I noticed they have a lot of images in their churches, which seems to be a violation of Exodus 20:4.

I'm really having a hard time finding a righteous Christian to baptize me. I thought about going in to the church again to speak to the people attending, and potentially find someone to baptize me, but if I suspect the pastors are intentionally deceiving (or are deceived themselves and resultantly deceiving) and potentially performing witchcraft, why would I want to even be a part of such a place? 1 Thessalonians 5:22

What do I do to find someone to baptize me? Do I put up a craigslit/kijiji ad? And in the same vein, where do I find Christian fellowship? I'm thinking in this day and age, and with my experience of the churches, I may have to resort to the internet for fellowship.

J

Sketcher · Feb 24, 2018

Andreas89 said:
Am I allowed to be suspicious and question it though? I agree that I am not in a position to judge. My first post seems to err more towards the fact that there is a connection, which in retrospect is erroneous since it is based on a lot of assumptions.

I would say at most, be curious and obtain more information before becoming suspicious. If somebody says something that sounds "off" for instance, ask for clarification of what they meant in a polite, neutral-sounding way. Or, bringing Matthew 7:1-5 and Matthew 7:12 back into it, consider how you would want someone who misinterpreted what you said or did to react to you, and clarify the matter with you. And extend them the same courtesies.

Andreas89 said:
Could you elaborate? How can a judgment that is once true become untrue, what is the notion of overdoing?

True statement: "Johnny sinned, and is a sinner."
Sample slanderous statement: "Johnny's a piece of crap." Usually a worse word than "crap" is used when referring to someone with the weight and emphasis on how worthless the person is.

Now, it may be true that Johnny by nature is a sinner, his righteousness before God is like filthy rags, and has no hope of seeing God's favor lest he repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. It's another to refer to him in a way that piles on shame and denies any worth the person has. More insight into "you fool":
Matthew 5:22 Commentary - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible
Matthew 5 Commentary - Matthew Henry Commentary on the Whole Bible (Complete) (do a Ctrl+F in your browser for v. 22 to skip down to what is said about that verse).

Andreas89 said:
I would hope, that if I had demonstrated such characteristics, that they be judged and pointed out to me so as to restore me.

Just pointing out what I was seeing, I've got your back. If no one is "good enough" to baptize you, when and where will you ever get baptized, and what kind of brother will you be in that church? I want you to be a good one.

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Feb 24, 2018

Andreas89 said:
I am a believer that one needs to be baptized to be saved. I am not asking for a debate on this particular topic.

I also can't seem to find someone to baptize me. I know that there doesn't appear to be any directions as to who can baptize and who can't, besides the examples of who was doing the baptism in the Bible, and even then it doesn't seem to mention that only they were permitted to do so. 1 Corinthians 5:11 gives some directives on what type of so called brothers to not associate with, so if any so called brother had these attributes, I would not want them to be performing the baptism.

The churches I've been to I have noticed that they are falling away from scripture. I believe the "once saved always saved" doctrine is a false doctrine leading people to destruction, which is the doctrine taught in an independent fundamental baptist church I attended. Many churches have women speaking and singing in them, a violation of the command given in 1 Corinthians 14:34. I have also researched and come across the occult, and am familiar with the telltale hand signs that supposed freemasons, or other members of secretive organizations do. I might have read/seen somewhere that they believe these hand signs are casting spells on people, a form of witchcraft or some kind of magick. Of all the last 3 churches I've relatively recently attended, each pastor has performed at least 1 of these hand signs. Now I know I can't draw any definitive conclusions from this, without confirmation from them directly, especially since it is possible they are doing them naively and without knowing their significance. However, I am suspicious, and would not be surprised if a majority of churches have been infiltrated. Matthew 7:15, 2 Timothy 3:13 state that this type of infiltration will take place. Especially in combination with the fact that each pastor has been preaching things, that in my opinion, are completely unbiblical.

I thought about an Orthodox church, but I noticed they have a lot of images in their churches, which seems to be a violation of Exodus 20:4.

I'm really having a hard time finding a righteous Christian to baptize me. I thought about going in to the church again to speak to the people attending, and potentially find someone to baptize me, but if I suspect the pastors are intentionally deceiving (or are deceived themselves and resultantly deceiving) and potentially performing witchcraft, why would I want to even be a part of such a place? 1 Thessalonians 5:22

What do I do to find someone to baptize me? Do I put up a craigslit/kijiji ad? And in the same vein, where do I find Christian fellowship? I'm thinking in this day and age, and with my experience of the churches, I may have to resort to the internet for fellowship.

I would recommend a church that baptizes in the name of Jesus according to the scripture. There’s nothing like being buried under that name. It also helps too if they submerge you under water as the biblical way of baptism shows it should be done. Also I will keep in prayers.

2Timothy2:15 · Feb 25, 2018

Mountainmike said:
Clearly those present do not worship the statues but Christ,

Hmmm not so sure about that. There is a Catholic Church in my area that has an enormous statue of mary. People gather there, pray, kneel down, place flowers and all sorts of things....sounds like worship to me.

Google Maps: Report Inappropriate Image

Meowzltov · Feb 25, 2018

Andreas89 said:
I am a believer that one needs to be baptized to be saved. I am not asking for a debate on this particular topic.

I also can't seem to find someone to baptize me.

1. Don't be so picky. Just because you disagree with a church's doctrines or traditions doesn't mean they can't validly baptize you. ANY church that professes the Nicene Creed (IOW believes in basic Christian beliefs) and baptizes in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, can baptize you. That includes the Orthodox, Catholics, Baptists and other OSAS churches, and churches that have women speak or sing.

2. In an emergency, even a non-Christian, even an ATHEIST can baptize you, as long as they do it in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. After all, it is you that has to repent and receive Christ, not the person baptizing you.

Honestly you are being far too picky. Go forth and be baptized!

jmldn2 · Feb 25, 2018

One of the greatest gifts from God IMHO is a gift of wisdom (discernment).

2Timothy2:15 · Feb 25, 2018

Open Heart said:
2. In an emergency, even a non-Christian, even an ATHEIST can baptize you, as long as they do it in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. After all, it is you that has to repent and receive Christ, not the person baptizing you.

What? How is a non believer or Atheist going to baptize you in the faith?

Francis Drake · Feb 25, 2018

Many years ago a close friend, now gone to be with the Lord, related this story.
As a young boy his parents had sent him to be educated at a Church of England private school, and that meant his religious education was run by the attached Anglican Cathedral clergy.

He was about 10 or 11 years old and his class was going through the lessons leading up to their Confirmation in the Anglican Church.

The actual confirmation service in the cathedral would be taken by the local bishop and would involve the children going in pairs to the front and kneeling before the bishop as he sat on his throne, where he would place his hands on their heads, pray something and anoint them.

The church teaching is of course that when the bishop lays hands on them, they would be filled with the Holy Spirit. Being simple uncomplicated children, they actually believed what they were being taught, even if those teaching thought it no more than mythology.

As they watched everyone else go forward, it all seemed quite safe, but nevertheless when it came to their turn, their expectation remained that God would do something.

So, forward they went, and knelt trembling before the bishop, and he duly laid hands on them.
The two small boys were immediately filled with the Holy Spirit and came up speaking in tongues before God.

Instantly, these so called Christian leaders went into a demonic frenzy of screeching and yelling at the two boys, demanding they halt this evil devilish noise. They were dragged terrified from the scene by angry men.

So terrified and convinced by Christian leaders that what they had done was wicked, they abandoned all hope of God.

My friend grew up, left school, did university, then did his national service in the army, worked professionally in London, married and had two children, became an alcoholic, wrecked his marriage.

His life was a wreck until finally someone invited him to a prayer meeting, and he once again encountered the God he knew as a child. He was totally healed of alcoholism, his marriage and family were also completely restored. Salvation had come home to roost.

Like many, he had been bitterly robbed of his spiritual inheritance by the wolves in sheep's clothing who ran the church.
That happened well over 60 years ago, and it remains the same today for many churches, they are still being run by wolves in sheep's clothing.

Albion · Feb 25, 2018

I'm sure that tale is very popular in Pentecostal circles. I've heard dozens of them (although sometimes the bishop is supposed to be Roman Catholic).

DominicBaptiste · Feb 25, 2018

Francis Drake said:
Many years ago a close friend, now gone to be with the Lord, related this story.
As a young boy his parents had sent him to be educated at a Church of England private school, and that meant his religious education was run by the attached Anglican Cathedral clergy.

He was about 10 or 11 years old and his class was going through the lessons leading up to their Confirmation in the Anglican Church.

The actual confirmation service in the cathedral would be taken by the local bishop and would involve the children going in pairs to the front and kneeling before the bishop as he sat on his throne, where he would place his hands on their heads, pray something and anoint them.

The church teaching is of course that when the bishop lays hands on them, they would be filled with the Holy Spirit. Being simple uncomplicated children, they actually believed what they were being taught, even if those teaching thought it no more than mythology.

As they watched everyone else go forward, it all seemed quite safe, but nevertheless when it came to their turn, their expectation remained that God would do something.

So, forward they went, and knelt trembling before the bishop, and he duly laid hands on them.
The two small boys were immediately filled with the Holy Spirit and came up speaking in tongues before God.

Instantly, these so called Christian leaders went into a demonic frenzy of screeching and yelling at the two boys, demanding they halt this evil devilish noise. They were dragged terrified from the scene by angry men.

So terrified and convinced by Christian leaders that what they had done was wicked, they abandoned all hope of God.

My friend grew up, left school, did university, then did his national service in the army, worked professionally in London, married and had two children, became an alcoholic, wrecked his marriage.

His life was a wreck until finally someone invited him to a prayer meeting, and he once again encountered the God he knew as a child. He was totally healed of alcoholism, his marriage and family were also completely restored. Salvation had come home to roost.

Like many, he had been bitterly robbed of his spiritual inheritance by the wolves in sheep's clothing who ran the church.
That happened well over 60 years ago, and it remains the same today for many churches, they are still being run by wolves in sheep's clothing.

I can halfway relate to your story because I grew up in a somewhat similar environment. The boys speaking in tongues is an interesting twist. I don't think I've ever been thrown out of an Anglican Church, but an Episcopalian Bishop asked me one time not to email him back and to contact the local Priest, whom I didn't really want to talk to because she was a woman and didn't really know how to organize a church. Not sure if alcoholism is always a spiritual issue, but I know a guy who stopped drinking after he went to a Southern Baptist Church. I do think that people can benefit from prayer meetings.

Geoff58 · Feb 25, 2018

I find the open post in this thread disturbing because it sounds more like a Conspiracy theory than a proper request for advice. The 'hand signs' nonsense was the final proof of that. That is so beyond the pale that it renders the rest of the OP rather silly as well.

The church is not 'riddled with evil people'. It is not filled with Masons or whatever silly thing you think.

All the OP has done is to try and define Church and Christianity by his own definitions and unsurprisingly, failed to find any that support it.

You need good Godly counsel and perhaps a little less time on the internet where these ridiculous theories live.

MyGivenNameIsKeith · Feb 26, 2018

Andreas89 said:
I am a believer that one needs to be baptized to be saved. I am not asking for a debate on this particular topic.

I also can't seem to find someone to baptize me. I know that there doesn't appear to be any directions as to who can baptize and who can't, besides the examples of who was doing the baptism in the Bible, and even then it doesn't seem to mention that only they were permitted to do so. 1 Corinthians 5:11 gives some directives on what type of so called brothers to not associate with, so if any so called brother had these attributes, I would not want them to be performing the baptism.

The churches I've been to I have noticed that they are falling away from scripture. I believe the "once saved always saved" doctrine is a false doctrine leading people to destruction, which is the doctrine taught in an independent fundamental baptist church I attended. Many churches have women speaking and singing in them, a violation of the command given in 1 Corinthians 14:34. I have also researched and come across the occult, and am familiar with the telltale hand signs that supposed freemasons, or other members of secretive organizations do. I might have read/seen somewhere that they believe these hand signs are casting spells on people, a form of witchcraft or some kind of magick. Of all the last 3 churches I've relatively recently attended, each pastor has performed at least 1 of these hand signs. Now I know I can't draw any definitive conclusions from this, without confirmation from them directly, especially since it is possible they are doing them naively and without knowing their significance. However, I am suspicious, and would not be surprised if a majority of churches have been infiltrated. Matthew 7:15, 2 Timothy 3:13 state that this type of infiltration will take place. Especially in combination with the fact that each pastor has been preaching things, that in my opinion, are completely unbiblical.

I thought about an Orthodox church, but I noticed they have a lot of images in their churches, which seems to be a violation of Exodus 20:4.

I'm really having a hard time finding a righteous Christian to baptize me. I thought about going in to the church again to speak to the people attending, and potentially find someone to baptize me, but if I suspect the pastors are intentionally deceiving (or are deceived themselves and resultantly deceiving) and potentially performing witchcraft, why would I want to even be a part of such a place? 1 Thessalonians 5:22

What do I do to find someone to baptize me? Do I put up a craigslit/kijiji ad? And in the same vein, where do I find Christian fellowship? I'm thinking in this day and age, and with my experience of the churches, I may have to resort to the internet for fellowship.

Since you ask one's suggestion, I would seek a Baptist congregation. Most employ just the simple basics as for "rituals", salvation and baptism. Publically confess Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior, be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Sundays usually go: praise songs, and sermons from the Bible itself. Some even do meals afterwards if you are for fellowship etc..
Philip baptized the Ethiopian in Acts in water (immersion) after he believed. So, technically, I would suppose that any believer could, but for the sake of being complete...I would recommend the above..

Because just stopping random strangers in the street and asking for a near drowning is rather absurd lol.

Radagast · Feb 26, 2018

Geoff58 said:
I find the open post in this thread disturbing because it sounds more like a Conspiracy theory than a proper request for advice. The 'hand signs' nonsense was the final proof of that. That is so beyond the pale that it renders the rest of the OP rather silly as well.

The church is not 'riddled with evil people'. It is not filled with Masons or whatever silly thing you think.

All the OP has done is to try and define Church and Christianity by his own definitions and unsurprisingly, failed to find any that support it.

You need good Godly counsel and perhaps a little less time on the internet where these ridiculous theories live.

Pretty much.

aiki · Feb 26, 2018

Andreas89 said:
The churches I've been to I have noticed that they are falling away from scripture. I believe the "once saved always saved" doctrine is a false doctrine leading people to destruction, which is the doctrine taught in an independent fundamental baptist church I attended.

Well, this is the second point of doctrine you've got wrong so far. Looks to me like the "falling away from Scripture" isn't all on one side...

Andreas89 said:
I have also researched and come across the occult, and am familiar with the telltale hand signs that supposed freemasons, or other members of secretive organizations do. I might have read/seen somewhere that they believe these hand signs are casting spells on people, a form of witchcraft or some kind of magick. Of all the last 3 churches I've relatively recently attended, each pastor has performed at least 1 of these hand signs. Now I know I can't draw any definitive conclusions from this, without confirmation from them directly, especially since it is possible they are doing them naively and without knowing their significance. However, I am suspicious, and would not be surprised if a majority of churches have been infiltrated. Matthew 7:15, 2 Timothy 3:13 state that this type of infiltration will take place. Especially in combination with the fact that each pastor has been preaching things, that in my opinion, are completely unbiblical.

Sounds like you've been on too many conspiracy/watchmen/illuminati-globalist/Satanists-are-everywhere websites.

Andreas89 said:
I'm really having a hard time finding a righteous Christian to baptize me.

The thief on the cross next to Jesus had a similar problem...He was saved anyway, though.

Andreas89 said:
I thought about going in to the church again to speak to the people attending, and potentially find someone to baptize me, but if I suspect the pastors are intentionally deceiving (or are deceived themselves and resultantly deceiving) and potentially performing witchcraft, why would I want to even be a part of such a place? 1 Thessalonians 5:22

I'm sure the devil will finally convince you that there is no other person you can trust and that every church is filled with Satanist infiltrators. And when he has, having isolated you from the "herd" of fellow believers, the "roaring lion" will devour you. (1 Peter 5:8)

Andreas89 said:
What do I do to find someone to baptize me? Do I put up a craigslit/kijiji ad? And in the same vein, where do I find Christian fellowship? I'm thinking in this day and age, and with my experience of the churches, I may have to resort to the internet for fellowship.

The internet is no substitute for face-to-face, in-person participation in a community of Christian believers.

Hebrews 10:24-25
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching.

Andreas89 · Feb 26, 2018

Meowzltov · Feb 26, 2018

2Timothy2:15 said:
What? How is a non believer or Atheist going to baptize you in the faith?

It is YOUR profession of faith that matters.

Mountainmike · Feb 27, 2018

2Timothy2:15 said:
Hmmm not so sure about that. There is a Catholic Church in my area that has an enormous statue of mary. People gather there, pray, kneel down, place flowers and all sorts of things....sounds like worship to me.

Google Maps: Report Inappropriate Image

"Sounds like" is a strange form of words, since no catholic either says so, thinks so or does so. Only anticatholics and the illinformed think it is worship or say it is so.

So back to reality: Asking for the prayers of others - as indeed is the " Hail Mary" , is established Christian practice, and the role of Mary as queen and intercessor is firmly biblical from the OT: the mothers of all davidic kings were titled " queen" given special role of honour and as we see, Solomon gave his queen a throne, bowed to her, and said he would honour any request she made, so heralding intercession of the mother of the king.

Jesus aligned himself to davidic kings- which is why he rode a donkey - so that the Jews would understand his actions and statements in those terms, and look for meanings there.

We see that enacted at Cana, but saying it was too soon " "woman, what have you to do with me now? My time has not yet come" . Jesus obliged her request with a miracle anyway.

Mary was indeed Gods's most graced human...entitled " full of grace" by the angel , ( given as a title " most graced one" not a name) the lord we are told is " with her."
So Tell me: When do YOU "call her blessed" as all generations must?

The only one or two references to Mary in catholic mass or worship are in the context of asking saints to " pray for us" ( which we know are effective because revelations tell us their prayers are " there at the altar of God") . And for every statue of Mary, in a Catholic Church, there are dozens of images and statues of Jesus. So not worship then! Nor is it undue emphasis. Nor is it compulsory for Catholics to ask for her prayers. But we do. We know it is effective!

Perhaps you should read the writings of those at the councils who decided your creed and canon , you call the New Testament: (such as Ephraim )were vociferous on the merits of intercession of Mary, indeed even good old Father Christmas - saint Nic. Credits her intercession with his release from jail. If that is the faith handed down from earliest times even by those empowered to decide the New Testament, and the creed it is good enough for me.

The question is less why we believe it, than why don't you? Why did you stop?

2Timothy2:15 · Feb 28, 2018

Mountainmike said:
"Sounds like" is a strange form of words, since no catholic either says so, thinks so or does so. Only anticatholics and the illinformed think it is worship or say it is so.

So back to reality: Asking for the prayers of others - as indeed is the " Hail Mary" , is established Christian practice, and the role of Mary as queen and intercessor is firmly biblical from the OT: the mothers of all davidic kings were titled " queen" given special role of honour and as we see, Solomon gave his queen a throne, bowed to her, and said he would honour any request she made, so heralding intercession of the mother of the king.

Jesus aligned himself to davidic kings- which is why he rode a donkey - so that the Jews would understand his actions and statements in those terms, and look for meanings there.

We see that enacted at Cana, but saying it was too soon " "woman, what have you to do with me now? My time has not yet come" . Jesus obliged her request with a miracle anyway.

Mary was indeed Gods's most graced human...entitled " full of grace" by the angel , ( given as a title " most graced one" not a name) the lord we are told is " with her."
So Tell me: When do YOU "call her blessed" as all generations must?

The only one or two references to Mary in catholic mass or worship are in the context of asking saints to " pray for us" ( which we know are effective because revelations tell us their prayers are " there at the altar of God") . And for every statue of Mary, in a Catholic Church, there are dozens of images and statues of Jesus. So not worship then! Nor is it undue emphasis. Nor is it compulsory for Catholics to ask for her prayers. But we do. We know it is effective!

Perhaps you should read the writings of those at the councils who decided your creed and canon , you call the New Testament: (such as Ephraim )were vociferous on the merits of intercession of Mary, indeed even good old Father Christmas - saint Nic. Credits her intercession with his release from jail. If that is the faith handed down from earliest times even by those empowered to decide the New Testament, and the creed it is good enough for me.

The question is less why we believe it, than why don't you? Why did you stop?

Off topic. I will be happy to discuss this further on another thread that is not "Catholic"only. But to go deeper into this subject is to run risk of rebuke from CF staff

Sam91 · Feb 28, 2018

Maybe pray for new eyes, and that the Holy Spirit will discern for you.

Titus 1:15
Philippians 4:8
Proverbs 3:5-6

EDIT
I was thinking about the verses I posted and realised they might seem a bit harsh.

What I was trying to say was while focussing on what might be wrong in churches your main focus isn't as on God as you might think. It isn't good for you. I mean to share those scriptures out of sisterly/brotherly love for you. I am not saying not to be discerning but to trust in our perfect Heavenly Father to lead you right. To do that we need to realise we do not have the answers but we know someone who does.

Can't find a church - need to get baptized

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comes and goes

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Freylekher Yid

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Child of the Living God

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