Canonization of Scriptures

Mikeb85 · Jan 11, 2009

MichaelTheeArchAngel said:
Both the Arians and the Judaizing Christians were called heretics by the Catholics, because they would not accept a Sunday Sabbath, trinitarism, or hell as a true doctrine. Anyway, after the Catholics won the war they proclaimed those things a biblical truths. They also claimed to be the true Christians. They also proclaim that salvation can only be found through their Church.

I don't know who told you that we think Sunday is the Sabbath, because it's not. Saturday is and has always been the Sabbath (in fact, in most non-English languages in Christian nations, the word for Saturday actually IS Sabbath). We worship on Sunday (among other days) because our Lord rose on the FIRST day of the week, and every week we remember His resurrection... The early Christians worshipped both on Saturday and Sunday (and other days of the week), in fact, many of the larger Orthodox churches will have multiple services EVERY day of the week - including Saturday...(I think alot of Catholic churches do too)

Mikeb85 · Jan 11, 2009

Furthermore, the entire question is flawed, as your view of the 'Papacy' and its role in the early church is flawed. The entire church 'canonized' scripture. (The Roman church severely overstates the role it played in the early church, and you seem to have bought it...)

GuardianShua · Jan 11, 2009

Mikeb85 said:
I don't know who told you that we think Sunday is the Sabbath, because it's not. Saturday is and has always been the Sabbath (in fact, in most non-English languages in Christian nations, the word for Saturday actually IS Sabbath). We worship on Sunday because our Lord rose on the FIRST day of the week, and every week we remember His resurrection... The early Christians worshipped both on Saturday and Sunday (and other days of the week), in fact, many of the larger Orthodox churches will have multiple services EVERY day of the week...(I think alot of Catholic churches do too)

The day of rest is Saturday, but as for worship, you can worship any day, and every day. During the rule of Constantine the Great, he made a law that states that Christians are to work on Saturdays, but rest on Sundays. According to scripture and the law no work was to be done on that particular Sunday. So Mary did not attend the grave of Yahshua on that Sunday. That is what scripture says.

GuardianShua · Jan 11, 2009

Luke 23:55. The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. 56. Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath(s) in obedience to the commandment. Sabbaths plural. According to the commanded laws no work was to be done on that Sunday. On the first day of the week after the Sabbaths which was Monday, Mary attended his grave.

Viribus Unitis · Jan 11, 2009

MichaelTheeArchAngel said:
I'm sorry Mike, but you are in error. Canonization was the reason for the war between the Catholics and the Christians.

Which war, where did it begin...?

LittleLambofJesus · Jan 11, 2009

MichaelTheeArchAngel said:
The Book of Enoch was also very popular among Christians.

Perhaps so but it is the Jewish/Hebrew book of Revelation that got canonized so that is the one I use and translated.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

[LLOJ Yoda Version] Zech 13:7 Sword rouse thou! on one being Shepherd of Me and on master companion of Me declaration of YHWH of hosts. Smite thou! the One shepherding and the flock are scattering and I restore hand of Me on the ones being inferior. [Matt 26:31/Reve 19:15]

[LLOJ Yoda Version] Reve 19:15 And out of the mouth of Him is going forth a sword keen, that in her He should be smiting/pataxh <3960> (5661) the nations and He shall be shepherding/poimanei <4165> (5692) them in rod iron. And He is treading the winepress of the wine of the fury of the wrath of the God the Almighty

Thekla · Jan 11, 2009

I was unable to find the text (online) for the proclamation you ascribe to Constantine (re: Saturday and Sunday).

What is the title and date of the Edict or Proclamation ?

LittleLambofJesus · Jan 11, 2009

Thekla said:
I was unable to find the text (online) for the proclamation you ascribe to Constantine (re: Saturday and Sunday).

What is the title and date of the Edict or Proclamation ?

Hi Thekla. I really don't understand why there is such a debate on the "saturday/sunday" worship day.
All it does is bring up threads like this

Dan 7:25 And matters to set aside the supreme he shall wear out and to holy-ones of most-high/05946 `elyown he shall bring decay and he is intending to alter stated times and law. And they shall be granted in hand of him unto a time and times and distribution of time.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=6982465&page=96
Is Sunday worship the mark of the beast?

MrStain · Jan 11, 2009

LittleLambofJesus said:
Perhaps so but it is the Jewish/Hebrew book of Revelation that got canonized so that is the one I use and translated.
...

Right on! If one accepts the biblical canon then one must by default be giving appropriate credit to the same Church which developed the biblical canon we know is in fact Divine revelation. That was the One, Holy, Catholic & Apostolic Church.

squint · Jan 11, 2009

The 'scriptures' were meticulously kept by the Jews for thousands of years prior to the 'church' of whoever that showed up to make their phony claims to being the officiators of same.

The RCC did by NO MEANS make those scriptures. They merely took what was already there on paper and compiled them just as many had already done prior.

So what?

You wanna whine because the translators turned the term "messenger" into "angel?"

Don't you know that God purposefully CONFUSED our languages so that there would not be ANY exacting translations available to any of us???

And the fact that we all love to ARGUE about these matters is a testimony to the facts of our construction and WHY God made such confusions, to keep us all divided from each other.

We are divided because we are ALL bound with EVIL and that EVIL will not be allowed any cohesion by God no matter what.

enjoy!

squint

LittleLambofJesus · Jan 11, 2009

MrStain said:
Right on! If one accepts the biblical canon then one must by default be giving appropriate credit to the same Church which developed the biblical canon we know is in fact Divine revelation. That was the One, Holy, Catholic & Apostolic Church.

But of course

Hosea 2:11 I cause to cease all of rejoicing of her festival of her new moon of her and Sabbath of Her and every of appointeds of her.

Matt 24:19 "Woe yet to those in belly having and to those suckling in those the days!
20 Be ye praying yet that no may be becoming the flight of ye of winter neither a Sabbath."

MrStain · Jan 11, 2009

squint said:
The 'scriptures' were meticulously kept by the Jews for thousands of years prior to the 'church' of whoever that showed up to make their phony claims to being the officiators of same.

The RCC did by NO MEANS make those scriptures. They merely took what was already there on paper and compiled them just as many had already done prior.

So what?

...

Huh? The Jews did not meticulously maintain the 4 Gospels, Paul's Epistles or the Catholic letters of the New Testament. They reject the Christian New Testament (all 27 books) and Jesus as the promised Messiah.

LittleLambofJesus · Jan 11, 2009

MrStain said:
Huh? The Jews did not meticulously maintain the 4 Gospels, Paul's Epistles or the Catholic letters of the New Testament. They reject the Christian New Testament (all 27 books) and Jesus as the promised Messiah.

Why is that?

2 Corin 3:14 But was hardened the minds of them. For until the today day, the same covering/veil/kalumma <2571> upon the reading of the Old Covenant is remaining, no being up-covered/un-veiled/ana-kaluptomenon <343> (5746) That In Christ it is being-taken-away

Tonks · Jan 11, 2009

Who cares what the Jews think? I don't know why it is even being discussed.

squint · Jan 11, 2009

MrStain said:
Huh? The Jews did not meticulously maintain the 4 Gospels, Paul's Epistles or the Catholic letters of the New Testament. They reject the Christian New Testament (all 27 books) and Jesus as the promised Messiah.

There is very little direct 'Word of God' in the N.T. other than the direct quotes of Jesus which were recorded primarily by Jewish believers. Even what the N.T. writers wrote was in fact a BOW and REVELATION unto the O.T. That was what they had to look to for their revelation, INCLUDING Jesus.

The Law came by Moses. Grace and Truth to that SAME WRITING came by Jesus.

The best the RCC can do is to take credit along with other forms of past orthodoxy for partial accumlation of what was already well established and on record.

And these groups blew it in several ways as noted in this thread, by exclusion of some writings that did not seem to fit their particular groups agendas.

Today we have various factions and denominations doing wholesale re-writes of all the scriptures.

enjoy!

squint

squint · Jan 11, 2009

Tonks said:
Who cares what the Jews think? I don't know why it is even being discussed.

The RCC did not invent the Old Testament.

Paul gives the Jews the FULL ACCORD for what came through them as a body of people:

Romans 3

1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

enjoy!

squint

MrStain · Jan 11, 2009

squint said:
There is very little direct 'Word of God' in the N.T. other than the direct quotes of Jesus which were recorded primarily by Jewish believers. Even what the N.T. writers wrote was in fact a BOW and REVELATION unto the O.T. That was what they had to look to for their revelation, INCLUDING Jesus.

The Law came by Moses. Grace and Truth to that SAME WRITING came by Jesus.

The best the RCC can do is to take credit along with other forms of past orthodoxy for partial accumlation of what was already well established and on record.

And these groups blew it in several ways as noted in this thread, by exclusion of some writings that did not seem to fit their particular groups agendas.

Today we have various factions and denominations doing wholesale re-writes of all the scriptures.

enjoy!

squint

Thanks for your response, but now I'm curious. If you don't mind me asking, how do you know that "Grace and Truth" came from Jesus when you state that there is "very little direct 'Word of God' in the N.T."? Where did you receive this revelation?

squint · Jan 11, 2009

MrStain said:
Thanks for your response, but now I'm curious. If you don't mind me asking, how do you know that "Grace and Truth" came from Jesus when you state that there is "very little direct 'Word of God' in the N.T."? Where did you receive this revelation?

Don't really know what your question is, but Jesus brought GRACE and TRUTH to the OLD TESTAMENT Words of God.

Not all of scripture are GODS DIRECT WORDS. The only DIRECT WORD of God is where an O.T. prophet said THUS SAITH THE LORD....followed by Gods Direct Quotes.

Jesus' Words are accorded the SAME LEVEL of respect.

All of the other writers when they are NOT stating Gods Direct Words must by any form of logic take a LESSER POSITION on the ladder of respect.

So keep your donkey tale pinning spin of "personal revelation" terminology to yourself. Your GROUP did not invent the scriptures NOR could they have prevented the dissemination of same as those WORDS OF GOD were committed to the JEWS long before they hit the POPES desk.

enjoy!

squint

chingchang · Jan 11, 2009

MichaelTheeArchAngel said:
The Book of Enoch was also very popular among Christians.

Good point. Enoch is listed as a "hero of the faith" in Hebrews and then his scripture was actually quoted in the book of Jude. So Jude can quote Enoch and it is the 'Word of God'...but the book that the quote came from doesn't belong in the 'Word of God'? The Bible (as we know it) was put together by biased men...not God. Fact.

Free Hugs,
CC

LittleLambofJesus · Jan 11, 2009

MrStain said:
Thanks for your response, but now I'm curious. If you don't mind me asking, how do you know that "Grace and Truth" came from Jesus when you state that there is "very little direct 'Word of God' in the N.T."? Where did you receive this revelation?

Revelation 1:1 An-un-covering of Jesus Christ which gives to him, the God, to show to His bond-servants which-things is binding to be becoming/genesqai <1096> (5635) In/en <1722> Swiftness/tacei <5034>.
And He signifies commissioning thru the Messenger of Him, to the bondservants of Him, John

Revelation 22:6 And said to me "these the Words Faithful and True. And Lord, the GOD of the spirits of the holy Prophets, commissions the Messenger of Him to show to the bond-servents of Him which-things is binding to be becoming In Swiftness.

Canonization of Scriptures

Do You Trust The Catholic Papacy In The Canonization Of Scriptures?

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