Canonization of Scriptures

[GuardianShua]

This poll is for Christians only.​

Do you trust the Catholic Papacy in the canonization of our scriptures.​

Yes or No​

 

[sunlover1]

I trust that God has preserved His Word.

 

[GuardianShua]

I trust that God has preserved His Word.

I trust God also. But do you trust the Vatican and it's Popes to do what is right? They are the ones who canonized our scriptures.

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

Considering scripture was canonized before the papacy existed in it's current state, the entire question is flawed.

See Council of Carthage: http://www.bible-researcher.com/carthage.html

 

[GuardianShua]

Considering scripture was canonized before the papacy existed in it's current state, the entire question is flawed.

See Council of Carthage: http://www.bible-researcher.com/carthage.html

That statement is not correct. During the war between Catholics and Christians, there were a number of issues as to what was correct doctrine and scripture.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The question is too vague for me to answer....I had heard the book of Revelation was almost not canonized...

Luke 21:23 "Woe yet to the-ones in belly having, and to those giving suck in those the Days, for shall be great distress on the Land, and Wrath in the People, this

Reve 9:6 and in the Days those, shall be seeking the men the death and not no they shall be finding it, and they shall be yearning to be dying and shall be fleeing the death from them

 

[GuardianShua]

The question is too vague for me to answer....I had heard the book of Revelation was almost not canonized...

Luke 21:23 "Woe yet to the-ones in belly having, and to those giving suck in those the Days, for shall be great distress on the Land, and Wrath in the People, this

Reve 9:6 and in the Days those, shall be seeking the men the death and not no they shall be finding it, and they shall be yearning to be dying and shall be fleeing the death from them

The Book of Enoch was also very popular among Christians.

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

That statement is not correct. During the war between Catholics and Christians, there were a number of issues as to what was correct doctrine and scripture.

And what "war" would this be?

Let us remember that there was only one church until 1054. The Bible was canonized long before this. Also, you say "between the Catholics and the Christians." Are you inferring Catholics are not Christians?

While the Reformation in Europe was a struggle, I don't remember any official "wars" being declared. Furthermore, the Reformation happened almost 1200 years after the Third Council of Carthage.

 

[GuardianShua]

And what "war" would this be?

Let us remember that there was only one church until 1054. The Bible was canonized long before this. Also, you say "between the Catholics and the Christians." Are you inferring Catholics are not Christians?

While the Reformation in Europe was a struggle, I don't remember any official "wars" being declared. Furthermore, the Reformation happened almost 1200 years after the Third Council of Carthage.

After the death of Constantine the Great, there was a war between the Catholics and the Judaizing Christians, some were also called Arians. According to scriptures there were seven different congregations in Asia. One congregation was in Israel also.

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

After the death of Constantine the Great, there was a war between the Catholics and the Judaizing Christians, some where also called Arians. According to scriptures there were seven different congregations in Asia. One congregation was in Israel also.

The Arians were declared heretics as they denied the divinity of Christ.

This still does not dispute the fact that the Bible canon was established at the Council of Carthage, long before today's modern papacy. Even during the time of Arius, the Church was unified. Were there arguements and disputes? Of course! That's what the Councils were there for - to resolve the disputes and refute heresy!

Bottom line: the canon of the Bible was established by a Council, not by a single Pope.

 

[Sphinx777]

A Biblical canon or canon of scripture is a list or set of Biblical books considered to be authoritative as scripture by a particular religious community, generally in Judaism or Christianity. The term itself was first coined by Christians, but the idea is found in Jewish sources. The internal wording of the text can also be specified, for example: the Masoretic Text is the canonical text for Judaism, and the King James Version is the canonical text for the King-James-Only Movement, but this is not the general meaning of canon.

These lists, or canons, have been developed through debate and agreement by the religious authorities of those faiths. Believers consider these canonical books to be inspired by God or to express the authoritative history of the relationship between God and his people. Books excluded from a particular canon are considered non-canonical — however, many disputed books considered non-canonical or even apocryphal by some are considered Biblical apocrypha or Deuterocanonical or fully canonical, by others. There are differences between the Jewish and Christian canons, and between the canons of different Christian denominations. The differing criteria and processes of canonization dictate what the communities regard as the inspired books.

The closure of the canon reflects a belief that public revelation has ended and thus the inspired texts may be gathered into a complete and authoritative canon. By contrast, an open canon permits the addition of additional books through the process of continuous revelation. In Christian traditions, continuing revelation is most commonly associated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons), the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers), and with some denominations of Pentecostal and Charismatic Christianity.

 

[GuardianShua]

The Arians were declared heretics as they denied the divinity of Christ.

This still does not dispute the fact that the Bible canon was established at the Council of Carthage, long before today's modern papacy. Even during the time of Arius, the Church was unified. Were there arguements and disputes? Of course! That's what the Councils were there for - to resolve the disputes and refute heresy!

Bottom line: the canon of the Bible was established by a Council, not by a single Pope.

Both the Arians and the Judaizing Christians were called heretics by the Catholics, because they would not accept a Sunday Sabbath, trinitarism, or hell as a true doctrine. Anyway, after the Catholics won the war they proclaimed those things a biblical truths. They also claimed to be the true Christians. They also proclaim that salvation can only be found through their Church.

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

Both the Arians and the Judaizing Christians were called heretics by the Catholics, because they would not accept a Sunday Sabbath, trinitarism, or hell as a true doctrine. Anyway, after the Catholics won the war they proclaimed those things a biblical truths. They also claimed to be the true Christians. They also proclaim that salvation can only be found through their Church.

Yes, people that reject the Sunday Sabbath, the Trinity, or Hell are Heretics. (Oooh I said a dirty word!!) Yes, the Catholic (Universal) Church of 397 was the True Church and still exists through the Eastern Orthodox Church of today. The Eastern Orthodox Church does not claim that salvation can only be found through the EOC. That is for God and God alone to judge.

Furthermore, this still makes your original question invalid, as it was not the Papacy in its current state that canonized scripture. Even the Roman Catholic Church will agree to that!

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

Both the Arians and the Judaizing Christians were called heretics by the Catholics, because they would not accept a Sunday Sabbath, trinitarism, or hell as a true doctrine. Anyway, after the Catholics won the war they proclaimed those things a biblical truths. They also claimed to be the true Christians. They also proclaim that salvation can only be found through their Church.

her⋅e⋅tic /n. ˈhɛr

ɪ

tɪk; adj. ˈhɛr

ɪ

tɪk, həˈrɛt

ɪk/ [n. her-i-tik; adj. her-i-tik, huh-ret-ik]–noun 1.a professed believer who maintains religious opinions contrary to those accepted by his or her church or rejects doctrines prescribed by that church.2.Roman Catholic Church. a baptized Roman Catholic who willfully and persistently rejects any article of faith.3.anyone who does not conform to an established attitude, doctrine, or principle.

Based on the above professed beliefs by the Arians and Judaizing Christians and the above definition of heretic (taken from dictionary.com), it makes sense that they were called heretics, since their beliefs did fall outside the Church.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Do You Trust The Catholic Papacy In The Canonization Of Scriptures?

Do I trust it ? no . Where are the originals ? What was taken out - what was added - what whole documents no longer exist ? No - history shows that the office has acted in ways that certain periods could have done anything .

 

[Viribus Unitis]

After the death of Constantine the Great, there was a war between the Catholics and the Judaizing Christians, some were also called Arians. According to scriptures there were seven different congregations in Asia. One congregation was in Israel also.

Well, the Arian was the religion of the noble class in Visigoth Spain, until King Recaredo converted.

And your poll is a loaded question, as you know.

 

[GuardianShua]

her⋅e⋅tic /n. ˈhɛr

ɪ

tɪk; adj. ˈhɛr

ɪ

tɪk, həˈrɛt

ɪk/ [n. her-i-tik; adj. her-i-tik, huh-ret-ik]–noun 1.a professed believer who maintains religious opinions contrary to those accepted by his or her church or rejects doctrines prescribed by that church.2.Roman Catholic Church. a baptized Roman Catholic who willfully and persistently rejects any article of faith.3.anyone who does not conform to an established attitude, doctrine, or principle.

Based on the above professed beliefs by the Arians and Judaizing Christians and the above definition of heretic (taken from dictionary.com), it makes sense that they were called heretics, since their beliefs did fall outside the Church.

If you will recall your history, Constantine the Great was a Pagan along with his soldiers. He ran his soldiers through the the waters and afterward proclaimed them to be Christians. He kept the title of the Pagan High Priest until the day he died. See: http://images.search.yahoo.com/sear...te=n-477935547_q-XqPu8Sh9YgL.Sp.C9YyfEwAAAA@@

 

[Viribus Unitis]

I don't know of what pagans thought when Constantine almost at the end of his life, baptized. Maybe those pagans were not -using the wise words of a twelve years old- like happy. And in any case we do not base our faith in the Trinity on whatever Constantine thought, but on Scripture, Tradition and Reason (your mix may vary). I believe The Father is God; the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God. I never asked Constantine.

 

[katherine2001]

I voted No because it wasn't the Catholic Papacy that canonized the Scriptures. It was the Orthodox Church, of which the Church of Rome was a member of until the Great Schism of 1054. I certainly trust the Orthodox Church that canonized the Scriptures.

 

[GuardianShua]

I voted No because it wasn't the Catholic Papacy that canonized the Scriptures. It was the Orthodox Church, of which the Church of Rome was a member of until the Great Schism of 1054. I certainly trust the Orthodox Church that canonized the Scriptures.

OK, thanks for your vote.